Memorials problem.

[Khorgor]

Ignore the outragers, Gravestone Jokes are a tradition in RPGs and the outrage about a JOKE shows me that those people do not have a clue about what they talk. There is a Tree filled with HANGED WOMAN in the first Village one enters, there is a guy who remembers old lives and remembers the rape of a girl, but a JOKE on a Gravestone is not OK?

 

Also the person that started the whole mess on Twitter has no problem to say that killing all white males would solve all problems for society, there is your moral high ground "sarcasm"

[Gallenger]

All that will likely come of it, is a little notice, stating that whatever appears in backer made content is not officially endorsed by Obsidian - that solution pleases everybody.  A.  People who find such things offensive will know that potentially offensive things will be lurking in the backer made content, and B. Obsidian can absolve itself from whatever responsibility it may or may not have regarding the content within the backer made content.  It could even appear in super tiny text in the opening screen.   Thus the equally incensed parties on both sides are dealt with. 

 

I'm mostly shocked somebody found anything in those - I mean I clicked on a few - but have ultimately given up.  It must be in one of the first ones or something, or there are some really dedicated people out there lol. 

 

+ anybody knocking Sawyer for his response is a fool.  I mean have you ever tried to ask anybody for anything?  The *first* thing they'll do is pass the buck to some sort of insidious shadow group such as the "producers" who will promptly - likely - do nothing at all, because these sorts of things tend to blow over very quickly. 

[Nosmirc]

Ignore the outragers, Gravestone Jokes are a tradition in RPGs and the outrage about a JOKE shows me that those people do not have a clue about what they talk. There is a Tree filled with HANGED WOMAN in the first Village one enters, there is a guy who remembers old lives and remembers the rape of a girl, but a JOKE on a Gravestone is not OK?

 

Also the person that started the whole mess on Twitter has no problem to say that killing all white males would solve all problems for society, there is your moral high ground "sarcasm"

 

And lets not forget the fun times in the basement of the ruined Eothas temple. Or all the demented things that happened with the Hollowborns. More then a few families ended horribly because of them. There's a lot of dark and disturbing stories in this game, and that's just the first bit.

 

Honestly, if someone is that easily offended by a stupid limrick, this game might not be right for them. Just saying!

[Osvir]

 

Wow, this thread is getting replies by the minute.

Because Obsidian is facing serius trolling group

^That's my feeling too. And my analysis is simple:

 

This person got triggered and offended by the Memorials, of all things. Consider this, if you've played the game and read any of the memorials. There are a TON OF THEM. You're going to have to scroll through list upon list upon list if you're going to even find this one Memorial gravestone (as far as I can tell, they don't have the same ones).

 

And given this entire outrage about the whole ordeal, it is almost as if this person was looking for something to get triggered by. I can almost see it in front of me. Searching through the Memorials, one by one, and then exclamating "HALLELUJAH! I found something I can USE! Mwaha! Taste my outburst of social media rage!!!".

 

EDIT: Although, I have to be honest when we're talking about the subject of the Memorials anyways, and that's the ones that don't fit into the world of Eora.

 

"gamebanshee.com" for instance (No ill intended to Gamebanshee), these types of Memorials, in my opinion, don't do the game or the world of Eora any justice whatsoever. They don't fit into the narrative.

 

My suggestions (one or the other or a combination of them):

1) Re-write them. I.E. "Gameru Banshen", and keep the sentiment of the description text, but change it to become thematic. IIRC, this specific one was thanking Obsidian and Kickstarter~ use that and make it make sense in Eora. "Gameru Banshen thanked the rock he had found, of pure obsidian. He thanked it so much that his fellow villagers started to kick him. And that was that". See what I'm saying?

 

2) Re-arrange them. Toss the ones that break the world of Eora (such as gamebanshee.com) into one single Memorial, but keep the rest. There are more of them that are written in a way that makes no sense on a gravestone, or are written about a person who lives today in the modern world. Lots of them are not past-tense.

 

3) Change the name from "Memorial" to "Backer Tributes" because that's what they are.

 

4) Don't remove them ffs! That's the last thing to even consider, it's the lowest priority, even if a troll group comes after you Obsidian. People paid to have them in the game, and you promised this to them. Here comes a person who tells you that YOUR promise to someone else should cater to her. Hypocritical of me to say that, seeing that I've written out 3 points about why I don't like them and how I think they should be fixed, but there it is. But I'm not calling for them to be removed, I'm calling for them to be changed (Those that don't fit. EMPHASIS: "Firedorn Lightbringer" FITS. "Gamebanshee.com" DOES NOT).

 

EDIT EDIT:

5) A toggle would be a good idea as well (saw others suggest it too) and might be the simplest solution (rather than spend tons of hours to re-write them, which, I might take look at because I want some of those Memorials to be different, and fit into the world better).

 

6) In light of #5: Instruct this person that has so much attention on her at the moment, show her where the files are, where the text is. Let her go at it and let her fix what she thinks is bad about the Memorials. She can remove it altogether, then she can publish it as a mod and then she can market it and publish it to people in her circle that she thinks would enjoy her mod most.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Osvir

[Cultist]

It's absolutely disgusting how Obsidian is slowly turning into Bioware. And not by scale or releases or budgets.

Oh, and by the way:

http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/30rk3d/you_realize_obsidian_is_going_to_cave_right_all/

[Divinehammer]

There are backups of the memorial xml file on the net. If they censor it'll get modded back in, and I'll do my best to make sure said mod is spread as far as possible.

 

Never negotiate with terrorists.

[Kaldurenik]

So a person that wants to kill all men or atleast wants all men dead. Is upset with a poem about a guy that killed himself for sleeping with a man. And this is in a game, where you can feed children to ghoul's, kill people, torture people, heck one of the first towns you visit have people hanging from the trees.

 

I hope Obsidian DONT remove it, the people that demand that it should be removed will NEVER be happy, These are not the people that are buying your game, these are not "gamers", they are not part of the market and they will never be. The only reason why they get offended is so that Obsidian (or other devs) give them more "likes" so that they can go further in their political carer / journalist job or whatever.

 

Besides.... Everything is offensive to someone, so if you do remove it you might as well remove the entire game because there is always going to be people that get offended by something... anything. Heck i'm from Sweden the number one SJW country in the world :D, here everything is offensive :D

Edited March 30, 2015 by Kaldurenik

[Svirfneblin]

Ignore the outragers, Gravestone Jokes are a tradition in RPGs and the outrage about a JOKE shows me that those people do not have a clue about what they talk. There is a Tree filled with HANGED WOMAN in the first Village one enters, there is a guy who remembers old lives and remembers the rape of a girl, but a JOKE on a Gravestone is not OK?

 

Also the person that started the whole mess on Twitter has no problem to say that killing all white males would solve all problems for society, there is your moral high ground "sarcasm"

 

I think part of the difference is that the hanged people(and a number of the other 'mature themed things in the game) are an important part of the plot, atmosphere, world etc. specifically created by Obsidian. The joke is a few lines of text that was not even created by Obsidian which serves no purpose other than to acknowledge backers. Removing the latter is not the same as removing something that's actually important to the game.

[kirottu]

All that will likely come of it, is a little notice, stating that whatever appears in backer made content is not officially endorsed by Obsidian - that solution pleases everybody. 

 

I don't think it would please those who got offended by a joke in the first place, but I think it is the best solution.

[Cultist]

Now imagine Fallout 2:

- No prostitutes, becauce that's offensive to feminists and women.

- No slavery, because OPPRESSHUN!

- No racism and mutant bigotry because CHECK YOUR PROVELEGE!

- No stealing and drugs because Concerned Mothers

- No Killing of animals, because PETA

 

Just a tolerant nonviolent post-apocaliptic world. Ideal SJW game.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Cultist

[Osvir]

There are backups of the memorial xml file on the net. If they censor it'll get modded back in, and I'll do my best to make sure said mod is spread as far as possible.

 

Never negotiate with terrorists.

Look look! Whoever is offended by the material of Firedorn Lightbringer. Fix it yourself.

[Darji]

 

There are backups of the memorial xml file on the net. If they censor it'll get modded back in, and I'll do my best to make sure said mod is spread as far as possible.

 

Never negotiate with terrorists.

Look look! Whoever is offended by the material of Firedorn Lightbringer. Fix it yourself.

 

There is already a mod out which removes this message. But this is not enough for these People. Again they are trying to push some Agenda nothing else. 

[BaldurCZ]

Just ignore these "SJW" ... they just usually create problems where there are none. And this is another of those cases. It's not worth our attention.

[kirottu]

 

 

There are backups of the memorial xml file on the net. If they censor it'll get modded back in, and I'll do my best to make sure said mod is spread as far as possible.

 

Never negotiate with terrorists.

Look look! Whoever is offended by the material of Firedorn Lightbringer. Fix it yourself.

 

There is already a mod out which removes this message. But this is not enough for these People. Again they are trying to push some Agenda nothing else. 

 

 

There is? Well, isn't this the perfect solution for everyone? Those offended by the joke can choose to censor their own playing experience.

[Darji]

 

 

 

There are backups of the memorial xml file on the net. If they censor it'll get modded back in, and I'll do my best to make sure said mod is spread as far as possible.

 

Never negotiate with terrorists.

Look look! Whoever is offended by the material of Firedorn Lightbringer. Fix it yourself.

 

There is already a mod out which removes this message. But this is not enough for these People. Again they are trying to push some Agenda nothing else. 

 

 

There is? Well, isn't this the perfect solution for everyone? Those offended by the joke can choose to censor their own playing experience.

 

It was created by one of them. And yeah normally it should end here, but they want to push an Agenda and censor something they do not like.

That is why an toggle Option is also not an Option for These People. They want it to be removed.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Darji

[Osvir]

EDIT: Nevermind. I've been gone from the internet, I need to do some catching up.

Sorry for adding posts to this thread, dropping it now.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Osvir

[Hellraiser789]

How big is this lol? Is there like some massive discussion going on elsewhere except here? (Where?) Because, the last few pages (I'm not reading it all) seems to be discussion or people venting their own opinion, and it looks like it is the same opinion, namely "We don't have a big problem with it".

 

What is the name/link of the mod?

 

If I had to guess, I would say a lot of the major gaming forums probably are having similar conversations, although from what I've seen, its been mostly like ours - most people aren't really offended by it and think its ridiculous. I'd say the opposite is mostly on twitter and their own personal website/blog sites. You could dry digging around for the links in this thread if you are really interested, or you could just google "Pillars of Eternity transphobia" and I am sure something would come up. If your interested in who started it, try googling "Pillars of Eternity icequeenerika". That aught to get you something.

[Svirfneblin]

I think people overly offended at the notion of Obsidian removing it are also ridiculous frankly. Blahblah censorship integrity we'll boycott yadda yadda, it's a few lines of irrelevant text a backer wrote.

[EliHarel]

I made an account just for for this. This is absolutely ridiculous. These chronically offended people need help. Real help. Obsidian, please stand behind your decision about light-hearted jokes and have some confidence - just because some people demand you walk on eggshells around them doesn't mean you should. You don't need to adapt to what every keyboard warrior finds offensive. Especially when they're this bat**** crazy. And I am not sorry if I hurt someone's feelings by writing this.

 

G-eez.

[Luckmann]

[...]

 

Apologies if you don't speak English - You're English was good, so it didn't even cross my mind. Yeah, subordinate can sometimes have a negative connotation associated with it. So while not necessarily wrong, it could be interpreted as negative and therefore send a meaning you didn't intend. Employee would be a better term to use as it is more neutral-ish (at least from my perspective; English is stupid like that).

 

[...]

Employee is someone that is employed by you. Any company that has an internal structure beyond employer-employee has be be ordganized by superiors and subordinates. You can't just say employee; Sawyer is an employee of Obsidian Entertainment, and as Director, he us the superior of Brennecke, Adler and Gomez. Sawyer is in turn subordinate to Urquhart. There are no negative connotations, unless someone is stupid or actually opposes organized structures (also known as stupid).

 

Just ignore these "SJW" ... they just usually create problems where there are none. And this is another of those cases. It's not worth our attention.

 

I would be inclined to agree, but it's simply not true. They create pressure on developers and if we ignore them, we become victims of our own apathy. They're ridiculous, yes, they're not worthy of time, no, but we have to actively disregard them, or else it seems like they have a point by their sheer volume.

[Pidesco]

Thread closed for length.

 

Also I feel that everything there was to be said about the subject has been said. Obsidian has been alerted to the issue, so all we need to do is wait.