Rogue advice

[dam]

 

@Olpika :

 

I do not see what blinding the enemy has to do with backstabbing.

Blinding grants more crits from lowering deflection, picking Backstab or not has no influence there, so I fail to see the synergy ?

 

Unless you mean opening with a blinding strike backstab, in which case I hope you maxed your stealth because the stupid skill is hell'a broken right now.

 

 

@TheVoxyn , @Sendoa :

 

My first rogue sucked, and I deleted him after Magran's Fork.

My second rogue melts faces, and behinds, and basically pretty much anything, on Hard difficulty.

 

He's reached level 12 just a few minutes ago, let me share his personal stats while he stands here in Twin Elms at the beginning of Act 3 :

Hits: 2195

Crits: 2140

Highest single target damage: 141

Damage done : 100227

Enemies felled : 801

Time in combat : 3 days, 31 minutes.

 

He has single-handedly done more damage than the whole team combined.

And yes, you've read that right, that's a 50/50 hit-crit ratio.

 

Forget Backstab which is currently not useable nor worthwile, and focus on sustained damage abilities and talents, as well as correct positioning in battle.

Also keep in mind that a Flanked enemy is a Sneak Attack-able enemy.

 

Regarding weapon choice :

 

 

The first 2 acts of the game, you want to run with the 2000 copper Stiletto from Gilded Vale, which has a Jolting Touch proc that crits 3 enemies for 60-80 damage (1 per encounter).

Later on, you'll want to move away from this burst-based weapon to ones more suited to prolonged fights.

You can get either Vicious Stilettos (+20% damage against flanked/prone/stunned) , or Battle Axes (+50% crit damage)

 

 

 

Regarding companions choice :

 

 

The Grieving Mother whom you encounter in Dyrwood village, offers awesome synergy with your rogue through the use of her 2nd level Paralyze

 

 

 

Do pay attention however, to certain rogue-unfriendly encounters for which you may want to use your bow instead, notably the following enemies :

 

 

- Spectres , which deal PBAoE damage on death

- Flame Blights , which deal PBAoE damage on death

- Crystal Eater spiders , which have a frost based nuke with a DoT component

- Cean Gwlas , which have a single target stun dealing AoE raw damage

 

 

 

As long as you position correctly, your rogue will deal unparalleled single target damage.

 

I know the comparison is likely unwelcome here, but forget your DnD rogue, and embrace the spirit of a WoW rogue instead, hitting from behind for prolonged periods of time.

 

I understand your frustration over Backstab being damn hard to use and overwhelmingly lackluster, just build something different and you'll get yourself a very solid leader.

Uhm.. looks very powerfull! I started yesterday with a rogue, can you tell me your rogue build please?

 

Sure, my Hearth Orlan started with :

17 might

10 con

19 dex (18 + 1 from province)

13 per

10 int

09 res

 

 

Start with Blinding Strike, which although it comes with 1 less use/encounter than Crippling Strike, helps in the medium term, with survivability.

Very much later on, you'll also be picking Crippling Strike, so you can set up more targets for Sneak Attacks each encounter.

 

At the beginning of the game you want to rush roughly 2000 copper to buy the stiletto with the Jolting Touch proc from the smith in Gilded Vale, that will carry you very very far into the game, I was still using it at level 9.

 

 

Abilities (in alphabetical order) :

Blinding Strike (to set up sneak attacks and for survivability in duels)

Coordinated Positioning (this one's for mobility in fights)

Crippling Strike (to set up sneak attacks)

Deathblows (this one is pretty important, if you stack debuffs on a target, you'll do more Sneak Attack damage)

Dirty Fighting (10% hit-crit conversion)

Minor Threat (racial, 10% hit-crit conversion when attacking the same target as an ally)

Reckless Assault (-8 deflection, +8 accuracy, +20% melee damage)

 

Talents (in alphabetical order) :

Backstab <--- stealth is broken, pick something else to be honest

Vicious Fighting (+10% hit-crit conversion for Dirty Fighting)

Two Weapon Style OR One Handed Weapons Style , depends on your playstyle, I play dual wield

Savage Attack

Interrupting Blows (delayed enemies are enemies who deal less damage)

Bloody Slaughter (no idea if the +50% crit damage only applies to Bloody Slaughter crits, or all crits  )

 

Faction talents :

 

 

The Merciless Hand (side with house doemenel, +30% crit damage)

Dungeon Delver (side with the dyrwoodans against The Fangs , quest from the inn in Twin Elms , +10% crit damage)

 

 

 

 

As you can see, the character itself has a built-in +30% hit to crit conversion.

On top of that, rogues have very high natural accuracy and accrue even more over time.

 

 

I managed to get a 121 damage crit in the following circumstances :

- Flaming Weapons chant from Kana

- Double debuffs on the target, triggering Deathblows

 

The weapon used is :

 

 

Purgatory, one handed Sabre

16-23 Slash damage

+50% crit damage

Exceptional (+30% damage)

 

 

 

 

Keep in mind however that everyone has their own playstyle, and you may have more fun following your own instincts than a strangers' opinion.

Edited April 2, 2015 by dam

[dam]

Why swap from Stilettos to Battle Axes (or whatever weapon you choose)?

 

Does enemy HP get so high that the proc is less useful? Or are crits actually that much better?

 

Battle Axes, or weapons with a magical +50% crit damage, really shine in the late game.

The problem with stilettos' DR is that it doesn't scale very well.

 

Slower weapons like Sabres or Battle Axes not only have more critical damage, but also more base damage, which helps in getting over the enemy's DR.

Besides and with the build I'm using, my hit-crit ratio is roughly 1/2 so the +50% crit damage bonus does show, AND I already have other +crit damage multipliers from faction talents.

 

Lastly, the enemies' HP tends to get higher in the late game, I really struggled on the last floors of Od Nua with stilettos and daggers, for example.

Even with sneak attacks, I'd get what, 10 damage, perhaps 20 on good hits, against some opponents.

[TomGx]

 

 

@Olpika :

 

I do not see what blinding the enemy has to do with backstabbing.

Blinding grants more crits from lowering deflection, picking Backstab or not has no influence there, so I fail to see the synergy ?

 

Unless you mean opening with a blinding strike backstab, in which case I hope you maxed your stealth because the stupid skill is hell'a broken right now.

 

 

@TheVoxyn , @Sendoa :

 

My first rogue sucked, and I deleted him after Magran's Fork.

My second rogue melts faces, and behinds, and basically pretty much anything, on Hard difficulty.

 

He's reached level 12 just a few minutes ago, let me share his personal stats while he stands here in Twin Elms at the beginning of Act 3 :

Hits: 2195

Crits: 2140

Highest single target damage: 141

Damage done : 100227

Enemies felled : 801

Time in combat : 3 days, 31 minutes.

 

He has single-handedly done more damage than the whole team combined.

And yes, you've read that right, that's a 50/50 hit-crit ratio.

 

Forget Backstab which is currently not useable nor worthwile, and focus on sustained damage abilities and talents, as well as correct positioning in battle.

Also keep in mind that a Flanked enemy is a Sneak Attack-able enemy.

 

Regarding weapon choice :

 

 

The first 2 acts of the game, you want to run with the 2000 copper Stiletto from Gilded Vale, which has a Jolting Touch proc that crits 3 enemies for 60-80 damage (1 per encounter).

Later on, you'll want to move away from this burst-based weapon to ones more suited to prolonged fights.

You can get either Vicious Stilettos (+20% damage against flanked/prone/stunned) , or Battle Axes (+50% crit damage)

 

 

 

Regarding companions choice :

 

 

The Grieving Mother whom you encounter in Dyrwood village, offers awesome synergy with your rogue through the use of her 2nd level Paralyze

 

 

 

Do pay attention however, to certain rogue-unfriendly encounters for which you may want to use your bow instead, notably the following enemies :

 

 

- Spectres , which deal PBAoE damage on death

- Flame Blights , which deal PBAoE damage on death

- Crystal Eater spiders , which have a frost based nuke with a DoT component

- Cean Gwlas , which have a single target stun dealing AoE raw damage

 

 

 

As long as you position correctly, your rogue will deal unparalleled single target damage.

 

I know the comparison is likely unwelcome here, but forget your DnD rogue, and embrace the spirit of a WoW rogue instead, hitting from behind for prolonged periods of time.

 

I understand your frustration over Backstab being damn hard to use and overwhelmingly lackluster, just build something different and you'll get yourself a very solid leader.

Uhm.. looks very powerfull! I started yesterday with a rogue, can you tell me your rogue build please?

 

Sure, my Hearth Orlan started with :

17 might

10 con

19 dex (18 + 1 from province)

13 per

10 int

09 res

 

 

Start with Blinding Strike, which although it comes with 1 less use/encounter than Crippling Strike, helps in the medium term, with survivability.

Very much later on, you'll also be picking Crippling Strike, so you can set up more targets for Sneak Attacks each encounter.

 

At the beginning of the game you want to rush roughly 2000 copper to buy the stiletto with the Jolting Touch proc from the smith in Gilded Vale, that will carry you very very far into the game, I was still using it at level 9.

 

 

Abilities (in alphabetical order) :

Blinding Strike (to set up sneak attacks and for survivability in duels)

Coordinated Positioning (this one's for mobility in fights)

Crippling Strike (to set up sneak attacks)

Deathblows (this one is pretty important, if you stack debuffs on a target, you'll do more Sneak Attack damage)

Dirty Fighting (10% hit-crit conversion)

Minor Threat (racial, 10% hit-crit conversion when attacking the same target as an ally)

Reckless Assault (-8 deflection, +8 accuracy, +20% melee damage)

 

Talents (in alphabetical order) :

Backstab <--- stealth is broken, pick something else to be honest

Vicious Fighting (+10% hit-crit conversion for Dirty Fighting)

Two Weapon Style OR One Handed Weapons Style , depends on your playstyle, I play dual wield

Savage Attack

Interrupting Blows (delayed enemies are enemies who deal less damage)

Bloody Slaughter (no idea if the +50% crit damage only applies to Bloody Slaughter crits, or all crits  )

 

Faction talents :

 

 

The Merciless Hand (side with house doemenel, +30% crit damage)

Dungeon Delver (side with the dyrwoodans against The Fangs , quest from the inn in Twin Elms , +10% crit damage)

 

 

 

 

As you can see, the character itself has a built-in +30% hit to crit conversion.

On top of that, rogues have very high natural accuracy and accrue even more over time.

 

 

I managed to get a 114 damage crit in the following circumstances :

- Flaming Weapons chant from Kana

- Double debuffs on the target, triggering Deathblows

 

The weapon used is :

 

 

Purgatory, one handed Sabre

16-23 Slash damage

+50% crit damage

Exceptional (+30% damage)

 

 

 

 

Keep in mind however that everyone has their own playstyle, and you may have more fun following your own instincts than a strangers' opinion.

 

Thank you very much man!! I will follow this build

[polterer]

Sure, my Hearth Orlan started with :

17 might

10 con

19 dex (18 + 1 from province)

13 per

10 int

09 res

I deeply appreciate your insight, especially about weapons and enemy types to look out for. What would your opinion be on min maxed builds for hard, eg:

 

21 Mig (playing Aumaua)

3 Con

18 Dex

17 Per

3 Int

16 Res

 

Is this even viable or are there encounters where you would die no matter how good your positioning is?

Edited April 2, 2015 by polterer

[Lasci]

 

Sure, my Hearth Orlan started with :

17 might

10 con

19 dex (18 + 1 from province)

13 per

10 int

09 res

I deeply appreciate your insight, especially about weapons and enemy types to look out for. What would your opinion be on min maxed builds for hard, eg:

 

21 Mig (playing Aumaua)

3 Con

18 Dex

17 Per

3 Int

16 Res

 

Is this even viable or are there encounters where you would die no matter how good your positioning is?

 

 

I wouldn't dumb con that hard. Int is fine where it is, though, just make sure you get a Cipher to help set up sneak attacks. You're going to have to be careful with your positioning if your constitution is low, but it's perfectly doable -- especially if you're going to be ranged.

[dam]

 

Sure, my Hearth Orlan started with :

17 might

10 con

19 dex (18 + 1 from province)

13 per

10 int

09 res

I deeply appreciate your insight, especially about weapons and enemy types to look out for. What would your opinion be on min maxed builds for hard, eg:

 

21 Mig (playing Aumaua)

3 Con

18 Dex

17 Per

3 Int

16 Res

 

Is this even viable or are there encounters where you would die no matter how good your positioning is?

 

 

Sounds doable but you'll spend your entire time micro-ing your rogue.

 

Also, you're dumping INT too much.

It affects the duration of your own disables so you'll get less sneak attacks off, if you even get any at all.

Blinding Strike has a base duration of 10 seconds, lower if by your 3 INT malus, then assume you Graze with it and remove 50% duration, that's gonna be very short indeed.

 

Keep in mind your cipher (which is mandatory for the spammable CC, the other casters are per rest, sadly) might have something else to do than setting a debuff on your target, saving the group from an enemy your tank didn't intercept for example.

[overnuke]

Dam, what kind of build exactly are you using if you don't mind sharing with us?

[madPav3L]

Dam, what kind of build exactly are you using if you don't mind sharing with us?

Read post #28... or #26

Edited April 2, 2015 by madPav3L

[AlphaMagnum]

It appears as if fast 1h weapons are getting a bit of a damage buff in 1.03. I wonder if that'll shake up the balancing we see right now.

[dam]

By the way it occurs to me, right now and because I'm getting curious.

 

 

We're all used to our DnD rogues getting a flat damage boost from sneak attacks, something between 1d6 and 15d6.

These character types favored very fast weapons because you'd get more SA procs.

 

 

In PoE however Sneak attacks do not trigger a flat damage boost but rather a multiplicative one (50% for SA, 100% with Deathblows).

 

I'm curious about the kind of damage a rogue with Two-Handed Weapons style and a greatsword would dish out.

Mix that up with Kana's Flaming Weapons and Pallegina's Zealous Focus and that sounds like it would hurt.

 

Anyone find a +0.5 crit multiplier two-handers yet ?

[Ichthyic]

I did a elven ranged rogue with blind, cripple, marksman, distant advantage and weapon focus: peasant.  using hunting bow enchanted fine with burn.  crits near constantly, and combined with her abilities, or with things from the others like web or any of the other hobbling type aoe spells, she gets sneak attacks on pretty much every attack.  using padded armor, max dex then might.

by far and away does the most damage of any of my characters.

by the end of level 4, she had accrued 7k total damage.  disables traps (important on hard difficulty and above) and picks locks.  uses scrolls as warranted up to level 2.

very viable, low risk.

 

[Yosharian]

You REALLY don't need CON.  If your rogue is getting hit, you did something wrong.

[bragut]

Which ranged weapon do you use ?

[Ichthyic]

me?

one of the first posts I saw on this forum was one comparing ranged dps between bows.

for everything aside from the arbalest (now nerfed), hunting bow won.

I use my rogue as a ranged disabler... quick sneak attacks with blind on casters, cripples on chargers; need to change targets quickly and get arrows on them.  the hunting bow, having the fastest attack, is ideal for this anyway, even if it didn't have better or equal dps to any of the other bows.  I give her enchants to boost her peception, which also makes her a fantastic interrupter.

I don't need to run around the battlefield so much.  i get to maneuver outside of all the aoes and quickly pick targets.  dual hatchets if she gets engaged, plus escape and potions of fast feet.

still, it's squishy (padded armor was the heaviest she ever wore; usually wore robes of berath - those quest robes you get in the castle), and I probably wouldn't try it as a solo character.

also, you need to invest in the bow.  if you don't have a decent unique hunting bow, then you really need to buff up a standard hunting bow as best you can, as early as you can.

or buy a fine one from your keep to get the process started.

burning lash is really your best elemental boost, as it helps a lot with things like spirits, trolls, etc.

you probably will need at least two bows too.  one enchanted for kith slaying, and the other for either beast or spirit.  hey, if you have the mats, create a slayer for each major creature class.  stick with fire for everything but beast, and for beast go corrosive or cold instead because... scaly things with wings (all other beasts have no specific resistances IIRC).

there's also a couple of excellent unique hunting bows in the game.  Persistence is one, forget the other... lenas er?

 

?







 

[dam]

@Ichthyic

 

On what difficulty is that ?

 

'cause on PotD I'm seeing huge defense stats for enemies and I'm getting nowhere near 7k damage at level 4.

[Stun]

I'm kinda surprised more people aren't suggesting Pike builds for their Rogues. There's a Pike you can get from the blacksmith in Dyrford that inflicts Prone on a hit. That's *so* ideal for a rogue. Plus it's a pike, which means you don't have to be on the front lines to inflict your melee damage. So it's a safer weapon.

[MadDemiurg]

Pike/Quarterstaff are indeed one of the best melee options for rogues. Everyone who is obsessed with dw is just following the stereotypes I think. DW can deal more damage in certain circumstances but is very risky. I wouldn't run a dw rogue. Also I wouldn't run ranged rogue cause they don't get much outside of SA tbh. So 2h reach rogue is probably the only way I'd use rogue in a party.

[Daemonjax]

If you're going to use 2h weapons, may as well use a barbarian. 

 

If you're going ranged, may as well use a cipher.

[MadDemiurg]

Barbarian is incidentally better with super fast dw if you're into bug abuse. Pike rogue does more single target dmg than pike barb if you play your cards correctly,

[Daemonjax]

Barbarian is incidentally better with super fast dw if you're into bug abuse. Pike rogue does more single target dmg than pike barb if you play your cards correctly,

 

Yeah, OSA is definitely not working as intended.  While rogue does more single target dps (especially at low levels when the 1.5 sneak attack bonus matters more), barb's carnage can't be ignored and is a more interesting mechanic than just more single target dps -- but that's subjective I suppose.  Even the cipher can get a 1.4 multiplier at the cost of a talent.  The way those damage modifiers work, they have less total effect as you stack them higher (they all work off base damage, as they should).

 

If rogue's sneak attack was its own separate multiplier, the class would have something there.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Daemonjax

[dam]

I'm kinda surprised more people aren't suggesting Pike builds for their Rogues. There's a Pike you can get from the blacksmith in Dyrford that inflicts Prone on a hit. That's *so* ideal for a rogue. Plus it's a pike, which means you don't have to be on the front lines to inflict your melee damage. So it's a safer weapon.

 

 

Yes it does, and yes it is, and that's the reason I suggested on page 2 that people look into 2-handed builds for rogues.

 

There's also a sword in Dyrford that offers a 0.5 crit damage boost which would have very good synergy.

 

I'm currently testing out a 2-handed rogue in PotD.

[dam]

If you're going to use 2h weapons, may as well use a barbarian. 

 

If you're going ranged, may as well use a cipher.

 

The point of using a rogue is to get past these huge DRs in PotD with the Sneak Attack and Deathblows bonii.

 

I cannot talk for everybody, but I for one, am entirely unconcerned with easy/normal/hard modes, only PotD effectiveness and efficiency matter.

[dam]

 

Barbarian is incidentally better with super fast dw if you're into bug abuse. Pike rogue does more single target dmg than pike barb if you play your cards correctly,

 

Yeah, OSA is definitely not working as intended.  While rogue does more single target dps (especially at low levels when the 1.5 sneak attack bonus matters more), barb's carnage can't be ignored and is a more interesting mechanic than just more single target dps -- but that's subjective I suppose.  Even the cipher can get a 1.4 multiplier at the cost of a talent.  The way those damage modifiers work, they have less total effect as you stack them higher (they all work off base damage, as they should).

 

If rogue's sneak attack was its own separate multiplier, the class would have something there.

 

 

 

What doesn't work with One Stands Alone ?

I don't have a Barb and the wiki is awfully outdated.

 

Describe :

- what it's supposed to do

- what it actually does

 

I might be able to patch it, I'm currently trying to edit a few abilities and items and will be able to test them out after work.

 

 

From the game files, I'm getting :

- 2 more enemies required to flank you (so 4 total)

- 20% (or is it a flat +20 ? it doesn't say) melee damage bonus when engaged by 2+ enemies

[MadDemiurg]

It is +20 but should be +20%. Does Obsidian accept pull requests :D?

Edited April 10, 2015 by MadDemiurg

[Exoduss]

Which weapon would be better fit ranged rogue : Persistence A hunting bow from endless paths with huge damage multiplayer 1.45 or Borressaine War Bow with stun procs ?

Edited April 10, 2015 by Exoduss