Megatron Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Take away all that 'Thou' stuff plz. It totally makes my eyes suddenly roll around in my skull and babble insanely. I'll have to see how the rules play out. I guess it's up to the mods in the end. If it's anything like the Interplay forums though, that'd be silly. >* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xindell Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 *sigh* Somehow I knew I should've just not responded. I think every single person who read what I was saying understood the point I was making, you included. It's not a difficult thing really. is just an observation that your initial "argument" suggesting that rules clearly distinguish 'tween argument and debate is not nearly so clear as you suggest. Actually, I NEVER said that the rules clearly distinguish between the two, so don't put those words in my mouth. I was just pointing out that I think there's a difference, and I think that difference is what they meant. Regardless, think what you will. The only point I was making, right from the get go, is that I don't see how these rules are 'too restrictive' as many have implied. And since others had commented about the portion which said don't argue with a mod in a public forum could go so far as meaning never disagree with anything they said, I simply pointed out that I suspect people are taking that way overboard. I do believe there is a well known suggestive difference between argue and debate, and I believe that what they meant in the rules is that they don't want people openly arguing with the mods. But I'm not going to sit here and debate how black, white, or grey the difference is. It's just not that big of a deal. I find your lack of faith disturbing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megatron Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Don't worry Xindell, everybody hates him and thinks he's a moron therefore his opinion doesn't mean anything. b& >* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Mega, stop lying as you DO NOT speak for everybody. Geez... Don't pass your factual opinions as everyone elses' ok? They can speak for themsleves, thanks. P.S. LOL I just spoke for them too. Hehehe. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xindell Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Oh I know, I'm just irritated at myself for even wasting my time responding to his initial comment. I don't hate the guy, I could care less about him, or anyone else I don't personally know. But I've been around, in a very limited posting capacity and as a big time lurker, in enough forums that Grommy posts to to know what to expect from him. *shrugs* Lesson re-learned. I find your lack of faith disturbing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exitium Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Oh Xindell I'd hate to see you go back into obscurity just because of one little troll. Exitium RPG Codex - the premier avant garde gaming news site. "It is more convenient to follow one's conscience than one's intelligence, for at every failure, conscience finds an excuse and an encouragement in itself. That is why there are so many conscientious and so few intelligent people." - Nietzsche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xindell Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Unlikely that I'll go back into pure lurker mode. Not unless real life gets in the way too much. When I said lesson re-learned, I simply meant that I now remember why I tended to avoid getting directly involved in forum conversations that Grommy was playing a part of. And I now remember why I tended to never respond directly to things he posted. That's all. I find your lack of faith disturbing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Oh I know, I'm just irritated at myself for even wasting my time responding to his initial comment. I don't hate the guy, I could care less about him, or anyone else I don't personally know. But I've been around, in a very limited posting capacity and as a big time lurker, in enough forums that Grommy posts to to know what to expect from him. *shrugs* Lesson re-learned. oh please. "Actually, I NEVER said that the rules clearly distinguish between the two, so don't put those words in my mouth. I was just pointing out that I think there's a difference, and I think that difference is what they meant." you said that there is a "big" difference. now maybe you thinks we is putting words in your mouth by suggesting that if you thinks there is a "big" difference that such a difference would be salient, but we not see room for you to complain. honest. "Regardless, think what you will. The only point I was making, right from the get go, is that I don't see how these rules are 'too restrictive' as many have implied." sure you do. you has tacitly admitted that the difference 'tween arguing and debating is, at best, a subjective distinction. so the rules can be too restrictive if the moderator applies them in a manner you find inappropriate. am not seeing the issue here... you can say you re-learned some lesson 'bout Gromnir, but so far the only thing we has done is point out that your own manner for distinguishing debate and argument is precisely the reason why some people can view the rule as being potentially too restrictive. the choice 'tween argument and debate is a subjective one, with a significant grey area, that we place in the hands of an equally subjective moderator who has no real enumerated guidelines to make choices to censure or not save his own opinions. all rules that is so subjective has the potential to be overly restrictive... which was why sam was asking for the rules to be more clear. *shrug* you can complain "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megatron Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 I just don't bother reading his posts and pick out the bits that have 'we' in them as they're usually his opinion, usually the dumbest part of his posts. Besides mabye the last 3 words. >* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exitium Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Fun is always a good thing to have; a pity that his posts are completely bereft of the very material he seems to boast about. Exitium RPG Codex - the premier avant garde gaming news site. "It is more convenient to follow one's conscience than one's intelligence, for at every failure, conscience finds an excuse and an encouragement in itself. That is why there are so many conscientious and so few intelligent people." - Nietzsche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xindell Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 *shrugs* It is what it is. No matter what you do, you'll always have to deal with people that rub you the wrong way. It's the way of life. Time to drop it, move on, and make sure I don't let myself get sucked in again. Life's too short. :D I find your lack of faith disturbing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphim Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 I just read the FAQ and I find some of the posting rules too restrictive. For example, "Thou shalt not argue with moderators or administrators in a public fashion." strikes me as particularly strange. And the "any other reason we see fit really" reminds me of... that other company. I also do not understand the inability to discuss former... products... with their developers, considering that those developers no longer post at the former company's forums. I do not see how a developer can be free to discuss something at a RPG roundtable, yet he cannot do the same thing on a message board. And drop the fake old English. Point taken regarding the 'old english', however I don't feel they're too restrictive. In fact, I don't think they're restrictive enough based on this weekend's activity, but that's not my call. I guess one way to look at it is that rules are only as restrictive as the actions taken in their enforcement. "Make rules too lenient, and they will take advantage. Make them too restrictive, and they will still take advantage." Golden rule: Be nice, stay on topic, and everything will be fine. Regarding Interplay products: In my discussions with the devs, Obsidian is trying to focus on itself as a new company. Naturally the devs can talk about old games they've worked on if they'd like, but it needs to be made clear in the guidelines that this forum will not be a support site for another company's products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 as we noted elsewhere, it ain't the rules that matter, but how you enforce 'em. ever seen the constitution for the people's republic of china? if you was some alien and you look at u.s. constitution and you look at china's constitution you would probably think that a citizen of china gots lots more freedom. *shrug* as long as you is reasonable and apply rules fairly and predictably, we doubt any but a few nuts and vulgarians will complain. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feargus Urquhart Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 My thoughts on the Interplay/BIS projects are the following: 1) I don't think we mind talking about them, we just don't want to talk only about them. 2) We can't talk about things that could be considered confidential by Interplay. 3) We don't want to become the new Customer Service spot for IP/Black Isle games. Feargus Urquhart CEO Obsidian Entertainment, Inc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xindell Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 See everyone. They're gonna be reasonable around here. I find your lack of faith disturbing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Director Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 it ain't the rules that matterI agree, what they say the rules are is irrelvant. The threads that they lock and the posts they delete will tell us what they really mean. After all - it's their forum, the rules could just read; "We'll delete anything we don't like, and ban anyone who makes trouble" My thoughts on the Interplay/BIS projects are the following:1) I don't think we mind talking about them, we just don't want to talk only about them. I think that this will probably be the main topic on this forum, until Obsidian announce other games for us to discuss. But I don't think anyone can expect people to talk about stuff they used to do for too long. 3) We don't want to become the new Customer Service spot for IP/Black Isle games. I think that goes without saying... I wouldn't want to do unpaid work either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 I don't see why people would come here to talk about Black Isle games anyway. They have their own forums, such as it is. As for the rules of the place one can either obey them, leave, or disobey them til they get banned. Simple choices. These forums are Obsidian's property and they have the right to do anything they want. Don't like it, oh boo hoo for you. Leave then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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