WTB Rogue suggestions/advice

[mrmonocle]

Quick rogue question! Is a power rogue viable? Like, instead of a speedy dual wielding type, a MIGHTy yet slow rogue that sneak attacks with a giant two handed sword(^^) It seems weird, but in theory, should work right?

I tested it, turns out painfully inferior to fighter.

[Heijoushin]

 

Quick rogue question! Is a power rogue viable? Like, instead of a speedy dual wielding type, a MIGHTy yet slow rogue that sneak attacks with a giant two handed sword(^^) It seems weird, but in theory, should work right?

I tested it, turns out painfully inferior to fighter.

 

 

That makes me sad. But that's for the response!

[Veevoir]

 

 

To be honest I think it's much better to go with ranged rogue with  blunderbuss

 

That could be fun, but won't it take while to be able to acquire a blunderbuss and is ammo for that plentiful enough for your main weapon? I think a pistol volley then getting up close and personal with dual stilettos might work better and is covered by one weapon proficiency,no? 

 

That's kinda where I'm undecided as well, Blunderbuss seems like it's powerful but Pistols + Stilettos is a great efficiency combo...

 

In one of the videos a guy is wielding a mace with a stiletto... not sure what to make of that.

 

Weapon proficiency is pretty low on talent list choices for dual wields - vulnerable attack and two-weapon style come first.

 

That's why you don't have to settle on one weapon type til level 6/8

[Oxford_Guy]

 

 

 

I'm not much of a math person myself so I'm not sure, but given your calculation it seems like it's effectively a tossup, probably a bit in favor of the Aumaua.

 

What other penalties are there for having on 3 INT? Still don't much like the idea of a utter moron for my PC, regardless of whether this makes much difference in-game,. though...

 

Low int penalizes AoE and duration - the object of the build being that it doesn't need either. That's more-or-less all.

 

 

well, not exactly.  the 3 int also modifies will saves.  you is gonna start with a 17 will save.  at level 8, your will save is a 38. you can somewhat counter the impact o' near guaranteed failed wills saves by taking bull's will, but that does cost a talent, and talents is vital.  you are gonna face many will saves in the game.  something to consider.  is still a powerful build, but it would be good even w/o tanking int.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Yeah, but you counter loss of will by pumping Resolve. Which adds to your will saves.

Thus you're starting with even more  will saves then your default 10res/int stats. Precisely by 5 more with 16 Resolve.

 

it doesn't quite work out that way, does it?  you actually have worse will saves with the 3/15 split on intelligence and resolve as 'posed to 10/10... but that is precise why it makes sense not to tank int.  take 10 int and 15 resolve (not that we suggest doing so for a rogue) gets you 30 on will saves as 'posed to 17.  regardless, we sure as heck don't want worse than 10/10, but am s'posing we is more concerned with saves than is some other folks.  

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

So, what would be a viable version of this build that doesn't tank Int quite so much, say if going for 8 Int? I just can't bear to have my main PC such an idiot, even if it's not the optimal build - I'm not really a min/maxer, but like the overall build concept. Where could I take the other 5 points from?

 

Would this work: 17/4/18/16/8/15 ?

 

Also which culture  and background would best suit this build,both RP-wise and for the bonuses?

 

Also, would making this character a female limit any of my options? Or maybe open up others?

Edited March 26, 2015 by Oxford_Guy

[Elerond]

Quick rogue question! Is a power rogue viable? Like, instead of a speedy dual wielding type, a MIGHTy yet slow rogue that sneak attacks with a giant two handed sword(^^) It seems weird, but in theory, should work right?

 

Rogue works fine with big two-handed sword, especially if you go with backstap build and start fights with rogue giving massive hit. With two handed weapons dexterity is in my opinion more important than might, as you get more hits and rogues sneak attack already gives you 1.25 multiplier for the damage. 

 

For example

Fire/Nature godlike (good choice because of their bonuses when endurance is below 50% as you will with high likelihood take quite lot damage)

 

Mig 15/18 (18 if you want maximum damage)

Con 10

Dex 19

Per 14/11 (14 if you want bit more defensive ability by adding deflection and ability to interrupt your enemies, which is supported by long interrupt time from two handed swords)

Int 10

Res 10

 

This attribute distribution is quite conservative and you can try much more min/maxed distributions

 

Here some example picks for abilities and talents and some explanation why

Abilities:

Blinding Strike (Level 1): This is good for two hand build build as it gives your opening blow more damage and if you blind enemy they don't engage your character, so you can escape if there is need to do so and if no then you get sneak attack bonus against your target.

Escape (Level 3): This let you get safe from your front line position after your initial attack

Riposte/Finishing Blow (Level 5): Riposte addition to two hand build as you get free attack every time enemy misses you. Finishing Blow lets you... finish the enemy.

Adept Evasion/Coordinated Positioning(Level 7): Adept evasion works very well with riposte as it converts 50% of grazes you receive to misses, which give you change to get those free extra attacks. Coordinated Positioning lets you change place for example with your tank character, which lets you to escape engagement and engage the enemy with your tank same time.

 

Talents:

Backstab (level 2): This gives you +2 your damage modifier for attacks from stealth or invisibility, which gives you ability deliver quite devastating blows

Shadowing Beyond (Level 4): This gives you ability to become invisible, which lets you escape engagement or deliver additional backstab attack.

Fast Runner/Graceful Retreat/Superior Deflection (Level 6): Fast Runner adds your movement speed, which makes sneaking next to enemies easier and it gives you defense bonus against disengagement attacks, Graceful retreat gives you defense bonus against disengagement attacks, superior deflection gives you deflection bonus to help get more those misses for riposte.

Fast Runner/Graceful Retreat/Superior Deflection (Level 8 )

 

As additional note: You get riposte attacks also from missed disengagement attacks, which is why it is nice to build your defense against them, as it gives you ability run away after your initial attack and instead of being punished for doing so you get additional attack.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Elerond

[bleakcabaler]

I've been wanting to make a dagger rogue but the longer I play the more obvious it is I should be using a two hander for a huge backstab damage. There is literally no reason to use daggers at all, backstabs or not. I'm very dissapointed with this design choice.

[AlphaMagnum]

I've been wanting to make a dagger rogue but the longer I play the more obvious it is I should be using a two hander for a huge backstab damage. There is literally no reason to use daggers at all, backstabs or not. I'm very dissapointed with this design choice.

 

Why do you say that?  Is it just about backstabs?  Because in terms of steady damage, lack of wasted overkill, and even in terms of full damage special attacks (Crippling/Blinding/Fearsome Strike), it seems like dual-wielding one-handed weapons is probably superior to a single 2H weapon in a Rogue's hands.

[gkathellar]

@Oxford Guy

 

That's a perfectly viable spread, but I'm honestly not sure there's a lot of point. You're gaining +6 will, -6 reflex and -2 fortitude, but while that's generally a net gain, I don't know that it matters on a fragile DPS character like this one. It also means losing out on dialogue options for extremely high perception and resolve, and gaining nothing in return. If you're taking Int, you may as well take it up to 13 or 14.

[erutan]

I'm trying out a hit and run rogue (wood elf, dex region, drifter). The idea is to micro melee, but be effective at range if need be. 

 

While a bit of a min-maxer at heart, I do enjoy having some RP aspect to things, and given how this system works (no wrong build, just different yet viable on their on niche ones) I thought instead of worrying about how low/high a specific value is to look at things holistically instead of ZOMG 3 INT = stoopidz.

Attributes:

Might: 18

Con: 5

Dex: 18(+2)

Per: 15(+1)

Int: 3

Res: 16

Note, I went with the two points in con to be a bit less squishy and to offset the low fortitude a bit. Feel free to distribute to Perception for the interrupt+deflection (enough reflex as is heh).

Offensively the focus is on killing as swiftly as possible (high damage/speed), at the cost of focusing on impairing the target (low duration of effects). From  a RP perspective this is sort of a Malazan style Cotillion/Dancer assassin - there's a sense of compassion in a sense. Killing needs to happen, but get it over with and try not to have people suffer. Plus there'll be mages/chanters adding in status effects for Sneak Attack to fire off. Probably an average speed weapon in MH then stilleto in off.

Defensively that skill and agility lends itself to being pretty good at avoiding specific attacks, and excellent at sidestepping area of effect attacks that don't have much intent behind them. A somewhat fragile frame lends itself to a smaller health pool, and there's not much fortitude (+4?) for physical defenses and there's a direct vulnerability to directly aimed spells (-2 will?). However as a "mage killer" this is sort of fun - she can escape/vanish if necessary, and having high interrupt + dps + attack speed along with that heavy ranged opener sort of balances that out priority wise.
 

[mrpetrov]

Bump for this thread and build. Why doesn't the build in the third post use Backstab as a talent? I'd have thought it's a nice opener from stealth...?

[Awsumpossum]

Bump for this thread and build. Why doesn't the build in the third post use Backstab as a talent? I'd have thought it's a nice opener from stealth...?

I run a similar build to this and, while I cannot speak for the original creator, I don't run Backstab because there are far superior talent options.  Backstab is situationally useful at best.  While it is true that you can get a massive first strike, it often leaves your rogue open and exposed and, therefore, is more of a micromanagement hassle than anything else.

 

For those running a build like this one, I strongly recommend acquiring the unique Stiletto found on the blacksmith in Act 1.  The proc "Static Strike" absolutely OBLITERATES things.  I am currently in act 2 on my rogue, playing on hard, and the game has almost become too easy.  I'm sure I will run into something that hits extremely hard and will be forced to reload, but right now I am flying through things.  My largest single strike with a stiletto is 83.  However, I levelled a "named" mage for 123 damage earlier today.  A basic strike of 50+ and a static strike proc of 70.  They happened simultaenously.  My other stiletto has the draining modifier, restoring endurance on hit, and it makes my quite challenging to knockout.  Especially since I can always use blinding strike when needed. 

 

I recently came across a strong ring with the "second chance" modifier and placed it on my rogue.  It is probably responsible for 80-90% of my group's damage.  Not because the rest of my party is weak, but because the rogue is so damn strong. 

[Lasci]

Rogues can be incredibly high damage dealers with every single offensive weapon style -- two-handers, dual-wielders, and single weapon users are all viable rogue builds with very small nuances between them and small damage variance based on the situation.

 

In general, you want might and dexterity maxed out. I would bump down intelligence before I would bump down constitution, and I would take perception over resolve because of its interrupting qualities. Rogues are arguably the class that needs intelligence the least; it only reduces the duration of their debuffs, which the rest of your party can apply for your benefit. But slaughtering your constitution for large amounts of perception and resolve seems incredibly over the top.

 

If you're wary of overly min/maxed attributes, you can easily take something like this on a human (adjust for favored race):

MIG: 19

CON: 10

DEX: 18

PER: 10

INT: 9

RES: 12

 

Ideally, however, you want to either be an aumaua or a hearth Orlan. You can also potentially be a dwarf.

 

Culture: Deadfire Archipelago or The Living Lands

 

Background: Any

 

1 - Crippling Strike

2 - Your choice -- Bloody Slaughter, Vulnerable Attack, Interrupting Blows, Savage Attack

3 - Dirty Fighting

4 - Vicious Fighting

5 - Deep Wounds / Reckless Assault

6 - Style

7 - Reckless Assault / Deep Wounds

 

The level 2, 4, and 6 talents can all be chosen in whatever order you decide, but your style is best chosen later on when you've gotten a feel for how you want to play your rogue. Experiment to your heart's desire; see how it feels to use each weapon while dual-wielding, each two-hander, and whether or not you're satisfied with how few grazes and how many crits you get with a single weapon. I'm not convinced that weapon focus is good for any class that isn't a fighter -- +6 accuracy isn't worth being forced into a specific selection of weapons. Always remember that you're not beholden to a certain weapon. Stilettos not hitting often enough? Try spears. Too much DR? Take a two-hander. Still not piercing through sturdy opponents? Grab an estoc. 

 

Always open with a sneak attack blunderbuss shot before swapping to your melee weapon set. 

 

Backstab and Escape are both pretty terrible and aren't worth the investment.

[polterer]

Actually after calculation, even without base hit to crit conversion and with a 2 MIG gap, the Aumaua always wins the DPS race (lowest difference between the two factors is at accuracy=deflection, 0.889 for the Orlan, 0.898 for the Aumaua).

The difference is quite negligible (1-2% increase for the Aumaua in most case) but it doesn't require you to attack the same target as an allie and it grants you an additionnal trait.

 

 

I think I missed something here, how do you gain a trait as compared to Orlan? And which Aumaua would be better, Coastal or Island?