PoE Embargo ends March 23rd, Backers wait for the 26th?

[Cantousent]

As far as I know, Sensuki doesn't speak for Obsidian.  I am *not* here to defend Sensuki.  He needs to defend his own positions like any other member.  Here's the long and short of it, soedenone, if your post count is less than 5, someone from the moderators have to approve the post.  I generally approve posts off-hand except that I don't like to approve posts that are directed to a particular member.  I usually still do, but I don't like to feel like I'm encouraging personal vendettas or flames.  So, all I'm asking is that you direct your angst at Sensuki's position rather than his person.  For the record, while I think he has done a lot of work poking into things regarding the backer beta, I don't give him a pass.  The big difference is that I'm not forced to review all of his posts before they're posted.  If he attacks you personally, you can report his posts and someone will take a look at them.  For the meantime, it will inevitably be true that more attention is directed to posts that moderators must approve.

 

So, if you don't like something he has posted, and you feel it breaks the Obsidian forum rules, discuss it with us, hopefully respectfully, and I promise we'll hear you out and try to do our best as people who volunteer here on the boards.

[Bryy]

Not all of them. I've heard that John Carmack, person-to-person-like, is a ****. Doesn't mean he's not brilliant, he just has the same thing going on as Trent Reznor or Maynard Keenan in that he's good, he knows he's good, and he's a **** about it.

Of course not all of them. People are gonna peep.

[soedenone]

As far as I know, Sensuki doesn't speak for Obsidian.  I am *not* here to defend Sensuki.  He needs to defend his own positions like any other member.  Here's the long and short of it, soedenone, if your post count is less than 5, someone from the moderators have to approve the post.  I generally approve posts off-hand except that I don't like to approve posts that are directed to a particular member.  I usually still do, but I don't like to feel like I'm encouraging personal vendettas or flames.  So, all I'm asking is that you direct your angst at Sensuki's position rather than his person.  For the record, while I think he has done a lot of work poking into things regarding the backer beta, I don't give him a pass.  The big difference is that I'm not forced to review all of his posts before they're posted.  If he attacks you personally, you can report his posts and someone will take a look at them.  For the meantime, it will inevitably be true that more attention is directed to posts that moderators must approve.

 

So, if you don't like something he has posted, and you feel it breaks the Obsidian forum rules, discuss it with us, hopefully respectfully, and I promise we'll hear you out and try to do our best as people who volunteer here on the boards.

I don't feel the user has broken any rules, did I ever say that?

Does it come off as me having some sort of vendetta? I must express profound confusion; that is just about as far from the truth as possible. I'm quite certain I already said it, though I will happily reiterate: I have nothing against the user (frankly there is absolutely zero relation both ways, as we have never interacted) I am just questioning the business practice of Obsidian. Is that wrong?

 

If anything, you could infer, from my posts, that I have a "vendetta" against NDAs. Not against any people. I don't see where you're getting this from at all and it certainly isn't intended on my behalf.

Edited March 22, 2015 by soedenone

[Cantousent]

I tell you what, maybe I *have* misunderstood.  I'm going to post this for the whole moderator team to discuss and leave the response up to them.  I'm *not* trying to censor you.  In fact, ironically, I approved your post just now.  I'm just saying, I would much rather members discuss positions rather than personalities.  Personally, as a backer and a member of these forums for some time, I haven't personally seen the member in question break what I understand to be standard NDAs.  After all, the backer beta doesn't have an NDA associated with it.  Maybe it does, but I don't remember signing one as someone who also has access.

 

I'll tell you what, though, keep posting.  I'm not trying to discourage you.  I'm just asking that you attack positions rather than question specific members.

 

EDIT:  As an aside, if you would like to discuss this with me personally, please PM me rather than post in this particular thread.  I don't want to tie up the thread.

[CaptainMace]

Ain't trying hard I gotta admit, but I don't understand what bogs you that much. Press copies of the game have been sent, afaik, to a lot of people that have nothing to do with more or less professional press to begin with. Several podcasters, as they obviously represent an opportunity for the game to gain visibility, have also been gratified this honor. Sensuki isn't just a dude that took part in beta testing, he's also active on the rpgcodex which remains one of the references and a pretty important community, so there's that.

 

Anyway looking forward to the stream, thanks for the spoiler-free aspect, I didn't want to watch anything from the game because of that.

[soedenone]

I tell you what, maybe I *have* misunderstood.  I'm going to post this for the whole moderator team to discuss and leave the response up to them.  I'm *not* trying to censor you.  In fact, ironically, I approved your post just now.  I'm just saying, I would much rather members discuss positions rather than personalities.  Personally, as a backer and a member of these forums for some time, I haven't personally seen the member in question break what I understand to be standard NDAs.  After all, the backer beta doesn't have an NDA associated with it.  Maybe it does, but I don't remember signing one as someone who also has access.

 

I'll tell you what, though, keep posting.  I'm not trying to discourage you.  I'm just asking that you attack positions rather than question specific members.

Did I break any of the forum rules with my questions? I am at a loss, here.

It was never my intention to come off as attacking anyone in any way, merely to question something said by another person. Regardless, I will not be discouraged from posting. It took a long time for me to start going on these forums little more regularly, as I didn't want anything spoiled, and finally I'm here. I won't leave out of my volition, haha!

 

 

Ain't trying hard I gotta admit, but I don't understand what bogs you that much. Press copies of the game have been sent, afaik, to a lot of people that have nothing to do with more or less professional press to begin with. Several podcasters, as they obviously represent an opportunity for the game to gain visibility, have also been gratified this honor. Sensuki isn't just a dude that took part in beta testing, he's also active on the rpgcodex which remains one of the references and a pretty important community, so there's that.

 

Anyway looking forward to the stream, thanks for the spoiler-free aspect, I didn't want to watch anything from the game because of that.

Now see, that makes a bunch more sense. "We gave them the copy with the express purpose of creating early, helpful content for new players" that sounds awesome! What I don't understand is why that would require gagging via NDA.

An NDA in such a respect would be something like "[...]Don't reveal anything, or only select few things, about the game prior to the release"(I.E. a simple embargo) it usually does not include "You cannot ever tell anyone about how you received your early copy of the game", just like review/press copies aren't accompanied by any such thing.

 

So when I read "I can't say, NDA" (or whatever was stated) it just bugs the hell out of me, because I work in law and it seems extremely odd and out of place. I know from my work that NDAs can sometimes be in a rather "grey", shall we say, legal-area - but something like this just seems odd.

 

Doesn't it seem odd to you?

Wouldn't Obsidian maybe even want to call attention to the fact that they gave an early copy (for whatever reason) to a member of their fanbase? That would be pretty damn cool marketing in and of itself, wouldn't it?

 

That is what I don't understand.

 

I am a new user and my only posts are in this thread, questioning an extremely well-established member of the community. I don't have a death-wish, honest - and please don't misunderstand me as having one such

 

EDIT: My first post not requiring moderator approval! We're in, fellas!

Edited March 22, 2015 by soedenone

[Cantousent]

EDIT: My first post not requiring moderator approval! We're in, fellas!

I admit, I laughed out loud.

[Sensuki]

While I'm sure you will produce some useful or maybe even good/great content, I am very curious why you have this opportunity?

 

If you have indeed signed a non-disclosure agreement and/or simply will not comment further, I will confess to being rather disgusted.

The RPGCodex got a press key, and the admins of the RPGCodex decided that the key came to me.

 

Paradox Interactive handled who got press keys, they gave one to the RPGCodex - they met mindx2 in person at PAX East and he did a very good report on it. It did not have a single thing to do with Obsidian at all.

 

There was also no NDA. I'm sorry if I confused you about that. I said "NDAsoz" because when I played competitive Call of Duty 4 back in 2008, the top team at the time called Team Immunity were given NDAs (and the only team given NDAs) by their management. When asked questions, their co-captain Tristan 'tEEKK' Pope, would post "NDAsoz" on the forums, which I found funny - and I always wanted a reason to do it. I'm currently under embargo and cannot discuss the game, so I thought it was a good enough excuse.

 

Anyway looking forward to the stream, thanks for the spoiler-free aspect, I didn't want to watch anything from the game because of that.

Unfortunately due to living in Country Australia (1mbit upload) I cannot stream. It will be a pre-recorded youtube video that I will do probably tomorrow, and I'll make it public after the embargo is lifted (and I won't be the first to lift it either - just to be safe).

Edited March 22, 2015 by Sensuki

[Jotra]

 

Ain't trying hard I gotta admit, but I don't understand what bogs you that much. Press copies of the game have been sent, afaik, to a lot of people that have nothing to do with more or less professional press to begin with. Several podcasters, as they obviously represent an opportunity for the game to gain visibility, have also been gratified this honor. Sensuki isn't just a dude that took part in beta testing, he's also active on the rpgcodex which remains one of the references and a pretty important community, so there's that.

 

Anyway looking forward to the stream, thanks for the spoiler-free aspect, I didn't want to watch anything from the game because of that.

Now see, that makes a bunch more sense. "We gave them the copy with the express purpose of creating early, helpful content for new players" that sounds awesome! What I don't understand is why that would require gagging via NDA.

An NDA in such a respect would be something like "[...]Don't reveal anything, or only select few things, about the game prior to the release"(I.E. a simple embargo) it usually does not include "You cannot ever tell anyone about how you received your early copy of the game", just like review/press copies aren't accompanied by any such thing.

 

So when I read "I can't say, NDA" (or whatever was stated) it just bugs the hell out of me, because I work in law and it seems extremely odd and out of place. I know from my work that NDAs can sometimes be in a rather "grey", shall we say, legal-area - but something like this just seems odd.

 

Doesn't it seem odd to you?

Wouldn't Obsidian maybe even want to call attention to the fact that they gave an early copy (for whatever reason) to a member of their fanbase? That would be pretty damn cool marketing in and of itself, wouldn't it?

 

That is what I don't understand.

 

I am a new user and my only posts are in this thread, questioning an extremely well-established member of the community. I don't have a death-wish, honest - and please don't misunderstand me as having one such

 

EDIT: My first post not requiring moderator approval! We're in, fellas!

 

 

NDAs are how game reviewing almost always works. Why Sensuki specifically had to sign the NDA more than likely is simply because they don't want to give him special priviledges gaming journalists don't have. Like them, or hate them, they are doing Obsidian a favor by giving PoE publicity that will then help the game sell more, and will eventually benefit us all by allowing Obsdian to work on more games like it.

[soedenone]

 

While I'm sure you will produce some useful or maybe even good/great content, I am very curious why you have this opportunity?

 

If you have indeed signed a non-disclosure agreement and/or simply will not comment further, I will confess to being rather disgusted.

The RPGCodex got a press key, and the admins of the RPGCodex decided that the key came to me.

 

Paradox Interactive handled who got press keys, they gave one to the RPGCodex - they met mindx2 in person at PAX East and he did a very good report on it. It did not have a single thing to do with Obsidian at all.

 

Cheers man, sorry if I came across as abrasive! More than likely I simply misunderstand an earlier post in the thread.

 

Regardless, best of luck producing content. If I wasn't such a pansy, I would certainly check it out, but I'm too scared to be spoiled!

 

 

 

 

Now see, that makes a bunch more sense. "We gave them the copy with the express purpose of creating early, helpful content for new players" that sounds awesome! What I don't understand is why that would require gagging via NDA.

An NDA in such a respect would be something like "[...]Don't reveal anything, or only select few things, about the game prior to the release"(I.E. a simple embargo) it usually does not include "You cannot ever tell anyone about how you received your early copy of the game", just like review/press copies aren't accompanied by any such thing.

 

So when I read "I can't say, NDA" (or whatever was stated) it just bugs the hell out of me, because I work in law and it seems extremely odd and out of place. I know from my work that NDAs can sometimes be in a rather "grey", shall we say, legal-area - but something like this just seems odd.

 

Doesn't it seem odd to you?

Wouldn't Obsidian maybe even want to call attention to the fact that they gave an early copy (for whatever reason) to a member of their fanbase? That would be pretty damn cool marketing in and of itself, wouldn't it?

 

That is what I don't understand.

 

I am a new user and my only posts are in this thread, questioning an extremely well-established member of the community. I don't have a death-wish, honest - and please don't misunderstand me as having one such

 

EDIT: My first post not requiring moderator approval! We're in, fellas!

 

 

NDAs are how game reviewing almost always works. Why Sensuki specifically had to sign the NDA more than likely is simply because they don't want to give him special priviledges gaming journalists don't have. Like them, or hate them, they are doing Obsidian a favor by giving PoE publicity that will then help the game sell more, and will eventually benefit us all by allowing Obsdian to work on more games like it.

 

I'm well aware, which is honestly why I was confused at first. I seems I am simply having a confused time all-round.

Edited March 22, 2015 by soedenone

[Sensuki]

edited to clarify why I said that word, and you'll probably laugh.

[soedenone]

edited to clarify why I said that word, and you'll probably laugh.

Hah, I did! Not only that, but suddenly everything is right in the world, again, and I can rest easy once more!

[Sensuki]

Yeah, well it was. It was the highest level of play in Australia, but Call of Duty was not a monetized or sponsored game, and the prize money people were playing for in those days was hmm, a few hundred bucks, split between 5 (there were bigger tournaments in 2010-2013), so getting all serious over that and having to sign an NDA was both pathetic, and funny. I think they used to make fun of it themselves too, and that's why he used to say that on the forums.

 

My team was also the first team to beat them online in a tournament in 2010 No NDA required!

 

Edited March 22, 2015 by Sensuki

[sparklecat]

 

You got a press version Sensuki? Awesome you deserve it. Once I have beaten the game I look forward to checking out your LP

 

I'm not sure if I'm going to do an LP at this stage - my focus will be on trying to help improve reception and the best way I can do that is to make a comprehensive beginner guide, so that when the game unlocks for everyone, there's something that people can watch to help them understand how things work / how to play.

 

 

That would be really great; I played the beta a little when it first came out, but then decided I'd rather go into the game fresh once it was properly released.  The more I'm hearing of the rather different mechanics to the old IE games, though, the more I'm worrying that I'll be utterly lost come release day.

[Tartantyco]

"Sensuki's Pillars of Eternity Guide: How to install the IE Mod."

 

[Sensuki]

No I'll keep it neutral - no IE mod plug, and no "I hate engagement" statements. I will thoroughly explain how to not be really pissed off by the system, because I think it's gonna bite a fair few people in the ass.

 

Pretty much every streamer I've seen has been destroyed by disengagement attacks because they're not paying attention.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Sensuki

[Osvir]

Pretty much every streamer I've seen has been destroyed by disengagement attacks because they're not paying attention.

 

Don't know if this touches NDA or not but Obsidian did say themselves that they were going to include a tutorial of some sort in the press patch.

I'm just wondering if it gives enough clarity for the Player to avoid getting pummeled to "death by disengagement"? (Fishing for a simple "Yes/No" response )

[Sensuki]

It really depends if they read it/understood it or not, doesn't it ?

Edited March 22, 2015 by Sensuki

[Osvir]

Yeah, I guess. But consider that Obsidian wants feedback on the tutorial (which you probably already have given too, but if you haven't... then you should).

Is it clear enough? (If Yes, then it's good enough)
Is it not clear at all? (If No, then Obsidian needs to clarify)

 

As I don't know how the tutorial is presented I can't really comment on if it is a good or bad tutorial. All I can say is that, I have played tons of games where I have ignored the optional tutorial messages on my first play (I presume Obsidian is using tooltip tutorial messages(?), usually positioned in top-right or top-left corners of the screen) and when I eventually meet my doom and I don't understand why, I restart, and then read the tutorial to understand/get clarity.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Osvir

[Sensuki]

Not sure I can comment on it, but truth be told I haven't really looked too hard at it.

[Osvir]

It is okay by me, I don't need to know. But it might be good for Obsidian to know if their tutorial is helpful or not.

I'm sure hope the reviewers who have a first experience/first look with the game are giving their feedback on it. Jason Scheier seems to have managed to get to the Stronghold though, then again, I don't know if he or any of the reviewers (frankly) has played the Backer Beta or not.

[Katarack21]

I'm sure at least a few of them have.

[xsubtownerx]

I knew it had to be Paradox involved some how. Just to clarify earlier comments: Larian Studios with Original Sin and inXile with Wasteland 2 did not have to go down the road Obsidian are doing. The game released for everyone on the same day. Period. I'm not a marketing genius, but I'm pretty sure BOTH those games were very successful in the sales department.

[Sensuki]

I guess we'll soon find out if that decision was worth it or not.

[xsubtownerx]

I guess we'll soon find out if that decision was worth it or not.

 

I guess we will. Piss off backers for potentially more sales. I hope it works out for them. With that said, I wish Obsidian had stayed the hell away from Paradox. Oh and add Lords of Xulima to that list. Small indie dev that used backers to make their game happen. They also didn't have to turn around and spend the money we gave them on giving away free copies to others. hahaha /butt-hurt-ness