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The more I read this post the more upset I become.

 

In short, what Obsidian says is "we won't do ANYTHING to promote mod support, we're simply leaving it there", with the most ridiculous excuse that exists: the engine is hard.

Just look at this post here: http://www.vg247.com/2015/02/24/pillars-of-eternity-mod-support-kind-of-hard-but-happening-anyway/

 

the Mandate (which appears to be an amazing game, of which I am a backer - I was too late for Eternity and ended up being only a pre-order and beta-tester) will feature full modding tools and solutions / middleware software should be available for things one cannot give direct access to.

 

Ways to promote mod support exist. If you don't want to, it's another matter.

I suppose I should be happy it's not ruled out by default...

Edited by Dark_Ansem
In-Development: Turn-Based cRPG, late backing OPEN!

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Man hours cost money.  

 

Money is limited.

Spending man hours making mod tools means not spending money on everything else involved in the project, debugging voice acting etcetera.

 

Furthermore, even AAA funded games that look to seriously support mods almost never provide mod tools on release since they're devoted to making the best day 1 experience for a game and working on the initial major patches for the bigger bugs that turn up with a wide release.  

 

Mod tools for the mod scene is just not as important as "making sure the game doesn't freeze and crash on you."  Obsidian isn't doing anything to hurt it and they're not purposely blocking mods, they're just not spending money on it which could be spent on making more quests.   

 

idk people keep bringing this up and like, it's the same answer every time.  "We spent money making quests and not mod tools because we're a small budget game trying to do big things."  Not "we're restricting modding because we want you to buy DLC," the approach that's taken hold in large parts of the industry atm (*cough* Creative Assembly *cough*)

Edited by Urthor
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They got a publisher now, nothing can be spared for mods?

 

Maybe?  Who knows, there might be a bunch of stuff they can very easily do to make modders lives easier for not much effort spent.  

 

Really it depends on the studio finances and business plan post release, also depends a bunch of technical side stuff related to the Unity Engine.  Obsidian's said they're looking at expansion packs etc for PoE, so they're not moving onto the next project as soon as PoE is released and it's over.

 

But like PoE is a game drawn and programmed on expensive professional software with expensive professional software licenses.  Mod tools are essentially, "free programs designed to make software for a game engine that cost thousands of dollars to license."  That's not necessarily something that can just magically happen, both technically and re their Unity License.

 

A publisher is supposed to give them a monetary boost!

 

Which they spent giving themselves another 2.5 months of development time, remember "it'll be released before the end of 2014 because that's when the money runs out"

Edited by Urthor
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A publisher is supposed to give them a monetary boost!

 

Actually Paradox gave them no money at all. Paradox just handles producing physical copies, physical goodies and then shipping them to backers. That's it. 

 

And if Paradox gave money, it would mean that Paradox would have a say in what kind of game is made. That is what Obsidian did not want, so they would not have taken money if Paradox offered them any.

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The money is irrelevant. Pillars of Eternity never actually had a "modding tools" stretch goal (don't confuse it with Wasteland 2).

 

They promised nothing other than "accessible file formats" which is pretty vague, but not untrue (check out some of the mods people have been making in the beta forum).

Edited by Infinitron
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Not really?...I think this may be one of those "seeing what you want to see" things.

 

Anyway, like I said, mods exist. People are already making them.

 

I think you're seeing what you want to see.

I am aware of that, I even did some datamining myself.

In-Development: Turn-Based cRPG, late backing OPEN!

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Why are you arguing to death? It is unreasonable to demand such things. Many games, don't even have mod tools and don't even support mods.  They don't have massive budget like traditional AAA games too. 

 

Plus, if you want mods, you can do it yourself. They aren't helping you do it, but the game recognize them. 

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Why are you arguing to death? It is unreasonable to demand such things. Many games, don't even have mod tools and don't even support mods.  They don't have massive budget like traditional AAA games too. 

 

Plus, if you want mods, you can do it yourself. They aren't helping you do it, but the game recognize them. 

 

Many games are mediocre at best. 

I'll find the source, I don't have time now but I will.

In-Development: Turn-Based cRPG, late backing OPEN!

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Btw, the "hard engine" excuse isn't ridiculous at all. They were really talking specifically about adding entire new areas to the game, which is what a lot of people mean when they talk about "modding" - creating entire new worlds and adventures, not merely tweaking an existing game.

 

The Infinity Engine games had very, very few mods that added new areas to the game, because they were hard to make. PoE's are even harder.

Edited by Infinitron
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If it's not a headline on the KS or the updates, it's hardly a "big selling point." 

 

I'm pretty sure I read it inside updates and in official posts here on the forums.

Besides, this is an old-school game. Not like Inquisition, emphasis on dynamic combat and flashy things!

In-Development: Turn-Based cRPG, late backing OPEN!

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You don't seem to know any facts about what you're postulating. Their publisher didn't add money to obsidian and even if they did, dozens of things would be more important than direct mod support. Modding was in no way a big selling point. It wasn't even a selling point. They mentioned they approve of mods, but nothing more than that. 

 

Furthermore your arguments are all over the place. No, it's not DA:I, so modding is a must have then?

 

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I can see that you understand leaving the resources open as "we won't do ANYTHING to promote mod support, we're simply leaving it there". They mentioned that they wanted to share as many of the tools they use as they can without spending too much time on the licence hassle. If you have ever really followed how they make the areas, you should know that it really is hard and time consuming. I'm pretty sure even if they released all the tools, there wouldn't be many projects with actual results. At least if we are talking about content/area mods. All of the areas are hand-crafted, not made up with modules and assets unlike Skyrim or NWN.

Also...if this game is supposed to be spiritual successor to IE games, I don't see why mod support is selling point from any perspective. As already been said, they do not mind/encourage people to make mods, but they won't spend money and time that can be used to improve the game itself on a very time/money consuming thing like native mod support and editing tools.

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You don't seem to know any facts about what you're postulating. Their publisher didn't add money to obsidian and even if they did, dozens of things would be more important than direct mod support. Modding was in no way a big selling point. It wasn't even a selling point. They mentioned they approve of mods, but nothing more than that. 

 

Furthermore your arguments are all over the place. No, it's not DA:I, so modding is a must have then?

 

 

 

It is for this kind of game. 

Publisher providing money is standard protocol (see, again, the Mandate, Starpoint Gemini 2, Shadows Heretic Kingdoms, Homeworld Remasterd....): if they did differently here, I'm not obligated to know it.

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Modding however was a big selling point.

 

Citation needed.

 

For me the big selling point was the promise of an old-school RPG made by Obsidian in the vein of the Infinity Engine games - and that PoE turned out to be, so currently I am pretty happy with the direction.

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Modding however was a big selling point.

 

Citation needed.

 

For me the big selling point was the promise of an old-school RPG made by Obsidian in the vein of the Infinity Engine games - and that PoE turned out to be, so currently I am pretty happy with the direction.

 

 

I'm not unhappy either, as an overall evaluation.

In-Development: Turn-Based cRPG, late backing OPEN!

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You don't seem to know any facts about what you're postulating. Their publisher didn't add money to obsidian and even if they did, dozens of things would be more important than direct mod support. Modding was in no way a big selling point. It wasn't even a selling point. They mentioned they approve of mods, but nothing more than that. 

 

Furthermore your arguments are all over the place. No, it's not DA:I, so modding is a must have then?

 

 

 

It is for this kind of game. 

Publisher providing money is standard protocol (see, again, the Mandate, Starpoint Gemini 2, Shadows Heretic Kingdoms, Homeworld Remasterd....): if they did differently here, I'm not obligated to know it.

 

The main Kickstarter selling point was that Obsidian will make a game according their vision and the vision of their backers. A publisher appearing and meddling with the game development would be actually making this selling point void. 

 

I really feel you haven't been keeping up with updates on game development and your memory on Kickstarter campaign is equally fuzzy.

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