rip Boris Nemtsov

[HoonDing]

srsly guys, get a room.

[Gromnir]

 

"It's less than 9/10 of the top traded countries had, without sanctions."

 

...

 

to make a valid comparison, you need add the impact o' sanctions to all those other nations

 

...

 

That would prove nothing except how significant the oil price drop was on Russia's currency, 

it proves exact the opposite.  other  nations, Not wholly dependent on oil, suffered 12-15% devaluations.  well, then, using your math, you could effectively double the devaluation those other nations suffered.  takes such currencies from being relative success to the kinda numbers suffered by the bottom 10... not including russia and the ukraine o'course.  yes, we know you inexplicably were trying to convince folks that devaluation o' the ruble were the fault o' oil, but other non-backwards arsed nations also suffered devaluations.  russia, in the midst o' a conflict in the ukraine and facing recession Before sanctions and oil drop woulda' been overjoyed to see a year end currency devalue o' at least 15%.  so you needs ADD sanctions impact to those other nations and Then compare.  sheesh.  

 

you don't even realize that you are hurting your own argument by pointing out the devaluation other Non-petroleum exporters who Weren't suffering from sanctions suffered significant devaluations?  ADD another 12.5-15%. 

 

 

"srsly guys, get a room."

 

it is ridiculous.  typically zor simple outlasts us with nonsense.

 

 *sigh*  

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited March 12, 2015 by Gromnir

[Zoraptor]

it proves exact the opposite. 

 

 

No, it doesn't.

 

well, then, using your math, you could effectively double the devaluation those other nations suffered. [..] ADD another 12.5-15%

 

 

No. That just plain isn't how it works, you cannot add them like that. To illustrate, let's take a theoretical country that has 90% depreciation. What happens if you just add that 12.5-15% to that, as you want? You get a currency with 102.5-105% depreciation. Which gives you a negatively valued currency. Which is, well, impossible.

 

You cannot do it that way. Doesn't matter how much you'd like to. Best you can is try to apply the 25-30%, or made up 40%, to those other countries' depreciations then add that. Which is also untenable, but at least couldn't generate impossible results.

 

it is ridiculous.  typically zor simple outlasts us with nonsense.

 

 

Shrug. I haven't misquoted experts, used graphs with fudged timelines that don't cover a quarter of the time I'm supposedly interested in and haven't wanted to do economically impossible transformations to data. You've done all three, in your last half dozen posts.

[Gromnir]

for chrissakes, you are the one who used other nations as a comparison, not Gromnir.  you came up with a flat value (HA!) for sanctions based on your math and then compared the value o' sanctions alone, to the depreciation other nations had suffered.  now, when you realize how ridiculous you were, you complain?  again, you are trying to compare to other nations with no sanctions and complete dissimilar oil issues.  you is trying to compare your value o' sanctions alone to all other factors those nations faced.  sure, the max is 100, but so what?  currencies have become absolute worthless in the past, and it will happen again. 

 

so, instead o' your original estimates about the near totality o' the depreciation o' the ruble (which ain't near the totality o' the russian economic crisis, btw) being attributable to drop in crude oil, you at least is realizing that extreme conservative russian estimates suggest that between 25% and 40% o' the devaluation were the result o' sanctions.  so, what woulda' been your estimate on depreciation without oil drop?  the ruble were already falling before oil and before sanctions.  is not 25%-40% sanctions and 60%-75% oil for a grand total.  again, your math is proving the opposite o' what you hoped, 'cause is showing how much impact Non-oil factors were having.  so how much % you wanna give to recession and war and growing foreign workforce?  

 

*chuckle*

 

oh, and the bloomberg graph You linked were for the same period and proved the exact opposite o' what you hoped it would, just as your bad math now proves exact opposite o' what you hoped. leaving out context o' kurdin's quote?  same as a misquote. *shrug* your hypocrisy knows no limits.  not to mention how obtuse you is being.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited March 13, 2015 by Gromnir

[Zoraptor]

you came up with a flat value 

 

No, actually you did, you just don't realise it because you plain aren't very good at maths. The percentage whether it be 25-30 or 40% [sic, misquoted] is a proportion of total devaluation. My figure is absolutely equivalent to that because it is the mathematical resolution of that proportion applied to the total devaluation it is a proportion of. It doesn't matter whether it's expressed as 25-40% of total or as 12.5-20% (absolute) in that case, because they're the same thing.

[Gromnir]

*chuckle*

 

"your inane response, "complete ignores actual problems o' the crisis, but nice try."  your attempt to distract with irrelevancies after you make ridiculous assertions is amusing but predictable and tediously repetitive.  we wish there were a way to add the chastisement you selective lifted from your quote o' Gromnir and add it to all responses to zor.  sadly, the board software doesn't allow such.""

 

so, how much for recession and increasing foreign work force and war?  if  25%-40% is western sanctions, then how much for everything but oil?  go ahead and show us another bloomberg graph.  we can wait.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[BruceVC]

@ Zora and Gromnir 

 

I doubt anyone on this forum is actually following this discussion  ?

[Zoraptor]

I tend to agree, hence why I stopped responding to all attempts to move the goal posts further some time ago. You can lead a horse to water, but sometimes you're better off leading it to the glue factory.

 

Anyway, let's get back to the real topic: mysterious deaths of political figures. Apparently there has been an outbreak of 'suiciditis' in Ukraine, opposition figures appear to be particularly prone with six (or seven, since a prosecutor in Odessa 'jumped from window' today) succumbing to this unfortunate disease in the past six weeks.

 

(Rather puts into perspective those Putin lists of a similar number over a 17 year period)

[Wrath of Dagon]

This is very speculative, but interesting : http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/03/14/world-view-putins-disappearance-may-be-part-of-a-major-moscow-political-crisis/

 

Also this : https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPR/status/576848674115944450

[Drowsy Emperor]

At the bottom of the article, it might as well have said:

 

source - Call of Duty: Modern Warfare

Edited March 15, 2015 by Drowsy Emperor

[Malcador]

Get the sense he enjoys messing with the West too much.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Dunno, I like the guy. Back when he came to visit Belgrade for the military parade I got a chance to see him up close. Small guy, but with the bearing of a statesman and leader. He went to visit the graves of the Russian soldiers as part of the visit and I was startled a bit to see him crying in front of the cameras.

 

I actually think he used to be firmly pro-western, but the US is deathly afraid of Russia and western europe, Germany in particular, coming together. That would significantly weaken their grip on the EU (since the EU is and has been devolving into Germany + everyone else) so they're pushing towards making these relations worse. First with Georgia, now Ukraine etc.

 

I mean, US convoys supplying troops in Afghanistan used to go through Russia. Doesn't seem like something a die hard nationalist and imperialist would do, does it.

[HoonDing]

Czar-sama is always right.

[obyknven]

Czar-sama is always right.

In Roman Empire crimes against Emperor and people of Rome punished by death.   

[Zoraptor]

Get the sense he enjoys messing with the West too much.

 

Yeah, he was looking pretty good for a dead deposed alien abductee when meeting the Kygryz President. Putin can troll without even trying.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Its the media whipping up a frenzy. If he's gone for ten minutes he can't just be taking a piss, he has to be terminally ill and taking care of an internal coup, Stalin style. They do the same thing whenever Kim Jong Un decides to shut himself in the basement to watch a marathon of Lethal Weapon.

[BruceVC]

Its the media whipping up a frenzy. If he's gone for ten minutes he can't just be taking a piss, he has to be terminally ill and taking care of an internal coup, Stalin style. They do the same thing whenever Kim Jong Un decides to shut himself in the basement to watch a marathon of Lethal Weapon.

 

Well he is instrumental to the reason there is a conflict in Ukraine and  his visibility in the global political arena is relevant and should be concerning if he isn't around 

Edited March 17, 2015 by BruceVC

[BruceVC]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/11/boris-nemtsov-murder-suspect-zaur-dadayev-claims-police-forced-confession

 

So I see now the Chechen suspects is now saying he was forced to make the initial confession

 

This is no surprise, who will the Kremlin now blame for the murder....especially since Putin vowed to find the killers

 

Can you imagine this ever happening in a Western country? A prominent opposing politician is assassinated and the state decides to frame someone for the murder, the level of political corroboration this would require from many people is staggering

 

But I suppose if you don't have free press its much easier  to do, Russia is fortunate they control the media  

[Malcador]

Or the Chechen could be lying this time rather then the first.

 

As for this happening in the West, eh, well political people can be removed from their careers via other means rather than murder. In a way the motivation is just as sleazy and corrupt.

[BruceVC]

Or the Chechen could be lying this time rather then the first.

 

As for this happening in the West, eh, well political people can be removed from their careers via other means rather than murder. In a way the motivation is just as sleazy and corrupt.

 

Maybe you see it like that but I think killing someone in front of your government HQ  is  not the same thing as someone being removed from political office because of a scandal they are implicated in

 

Unless you have links or evidence of Western politicians being removed from various positions of power for no reason? This generally doesn't happen because very few Western politicians would agree to resign from office unless there is a valid reason and I can't blame them 

[Drowsy Emperor]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/11/boris-nemtsov-murder-suspect-zaur-dadayev-claims-police-forced-confession

 

So I see now the Chechen suspects is now saying he was forced to make the initial confession

 

This is no surprise, who will the Kremlin now blame for the murder....especially since Putin vowed to find the killers

 

Can you imagine this ever happening in a Western country? A prominent opposing politician is assassinated and the state decides to frame someone for the murder, the level of political corroboration this would require from many people is staggering

 

But I suppose if you don't have free press its much easier  to do, Russia is fortunate they control the media  

 

He was not prominent, he was a political nobody. There were 0 reasons to assassinate him, particularly in the current situation. And killing him in front of the Kremlin no less would be a facepalm worthy moment for russian security services.

 

There is no more or less reason to trust his confession than his reversal of said confession. But you trust him because? It fits your political inclinations? 

 

If you're going to troll at least put in some effort.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Drowsy Emperor

[BruceVC]

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/11/boris-nemtsov-murder-suspect-zaur-dadayev-claims-police-forced-confession

 

So I see now the Chechen suspects is now saying he was forced to make the initial confession

 

This is no surprise, who will the Kremlin now blame for the murder....especially since Putin vowed to find the killers

 

Can you imagine this ever happening in a Western country? A prominent opposing politician is assassinated and the state decides to frame someone for the murder, the level of political corroboration this would require from many people is staggering

 

But I suppose if you don't have free press its much easier  to do, Russia is fortunate they control the media  

 

He was not prominent, he was a political nobody.

 

There is no more or less reason to trust his confession than his reversal of said confession. But you trust him because? It fits your political inclinations? 

 

If you're going to troll at least put in some effort.

 

 

You right Drowsy, the assassination of Nemtsov wasn't a big deal. The Russian people and the global community don't really care. I wish I had you clarity when it comes what is significant in the political global arena but sadly I just don't have your insights  

[Drowsy Emperor]

Well you are right about one thing, the Russian people don't really care. Otherwise he'd probably have had more supporters than could fit into a bus, when he was alive.

[Malcador]

Maybe you see it like that but I think killing someone in front of your government HQ  is  not the same thing as someone being removed from political office because of a scandal they are implicated in

 

Unless you have links or evidence of Western politicians being removed from various positions of power for no reason? This generally doesn't happen because very few Western politicians would agree to resign from office unless there is a valid reason and I can't blame them

Well, you asked can you imagine this happening in the West. Digging dirt up to achieve some end is fairly basic stuff here, as the political class can't help but be scum most of the time, heh.

[BruceVC]

Well you are right about one thing, the Russian people don't really care. Otherwise he'd probably have had more supporters than could fit into a bus, when he was alive.

 

Really? You are suggesting the Russian people don't care about the death of Nemtsov..can you explain the following, because it looks like tens of thousands of Russians cared ?

 

 

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/03/02/world/politics-diplomacy-world/nemtsov-mourners-despair-over-russias-direction/#.VQgheY7Hlg0

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/video/thousands-march-to-protest-the-death-of-russian-activist-boris-nemtsov/vp-BBi7trm

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/03/europe/russia-opposition-leader-funeral/index.html

Edited March 17, 2015 by BruceVC