I have a bad feeling about KOTOR 2.....

[Karzak]

and you just keep repeating self w/o saying anything.

 

"KotOR sold primarily because it is star wars."

LOL, and you keep denying that SW is KotOR's greatest draw. You not known for much common sense ever since you became a fanboy in exchange for a cameo.

[Volourn]

Karzak is funny.

[Karzak]

Karzak is funny.

Yep.

 

BTW, what we were missing KotOR just occured to me! SMASHABLE BARRELS!

[Gromnir]

and you just keep repeating self w/o saying anything.

 

"KotOR sold primarily because it is star wars."

LOL, and you keep denying that SW is KotOR's greatest draw. You not known for much common sense ever since you became a fanboy in exchange for a cameo.

 

ah, that tired old reply from krazy... always comes out when the quiver is empty... expected it sooner.

 

again, if star wars is such a powerful draw that it can elevate a simply "ok game" like kotor to blockbuster status, then why has so many other star wars games failed so miserably? why did jedi academy not sell better. clearly it too was at least an "ok game.". nevertheless, kotor far out sold jedi academy. kotor far out sold any star wars game we can think of... so no doubt, kotor did something that other star wars games did not.

 

sorry, but krazy ain't making sense, and the lame arguments you is now resorting to just makes that fact more obvious.

 

"So in terms of success, I think that PS:T was in fact successful - not in the commercial sense, but in garnering a very dedicated fanbase for whom it has been virtually deified."

 

there is a small group of folks who also think that arcanum is the bestest fantasy crpg evar. am not sure what you was trying to say above, but we feel compelled to note that you can always redefine success to make any game a success if you try hard 'nuff... try hard 'nuff to ignore the obvious that is. bis made ps:t to be popular with some minimum number of crpg fans who would buy the game in the first two quarters following release... and it failed.

 

ps:t was immediately embraced by critics. that has never changed. unfortunately, the folks ps:t was built for, the crpg fans, did not think that ps:t was fun. you can keep redefining "fun" all you want, but it not change the fact that ps:t was built to be fun for crpg fans, and crpg fans largely rejected or ignored ps:t.

 

the fact that you notes other games which you thinks was good and fun and popular should be making apparent the fatal flaw of ps:t... but that ain't happening, and we admit to being baffled as to how to proceed.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Karzak]

again, if star wars is such a powerful draw that it can elevate a simply "ok game" like kotor to blockbuster status

LOL grovelly, it can elivate a good game to blockbuster status, especially when that game is released without competition.

 

It can make a really bad game have some sales, which is what it did for a bunch of games that were so bad they wouldn't have been released without SW slapped on them.

 

PS:T didn't sell well just like the PS campaign setting doesn't sell well compared to FR.

 

Your role as a bio apologist is wearing a little thin, doncha think?

[Azarkon]

the fact that you notes other games which you thinks was good and fun and popular should be making apparent the fatal flaw of ps:t... but that ain't happening, and we admit to being baffled as to how to proceed.

 

I think what I'm saying is that PS:T was indeed a failure, but that it shouldn't discourage developers from making games that are meaningful and deep, so to speak. The fact that PS:T had a interesting story and well-written characters is not the reason it failed, and successful games need not be fun only in the most superficially gratifying sense of the word.

 

But I think the devs of Obsidian are already well aware of that.

[Volourn]

All true; but then again that description does fit KOTOR1 as well AND it was successful.

[Gromnir]

adding "lol" to start to virtually every reply to us not give your posts anymore merit than does your single-minded reliance on conclusory and unsupported statements.. statements that is rejected by the mass number of critics, fans and developers who not only thought kotor was best crpg last year, but best game of year, and one of the bestest crpgs evar. no doubt gotta assume that those folks is all fanboys

[Karzak]

All true; but then again that description does fit KOTOR1 as well AND it was successful.

What, that it was "fun only in the most superficially gratifying sense of the word"?

 

PS:T failed because planescap isn't popular. KotOR owes a huge chunk of its success to being based on star wars, it is that simple.

[Volourn]

Really? I almost didn't buy the game because of SW. Go figure.

[Karzak]

mass number of critics, fans and developers who not only thought kotor was best crpg last year, but best game of year, and one of the bestest crpgs evar.

LOL, you still don't realize that it had no CRPG competition.

 

Best CRPG ever? ROTFLMAO, only for SW fans there grovelly.

[Gromnir]

the fact that you notes other games which you thinks was good and fun and popular should be making apparent the fatal flaw of ps:t... but that ain't happening, and we admit to being baffled as to how to proceed.

 

I think what I'm saying is that PS:T was indeed a failure, but that it shouldn't discourage developers from making games that are meaningful and deep, so to speak. The fact that PS:T had a interesting story and well-written characters is not the reason it failed, and successful games need not be fun only in the most superficially gratifying sense of the word.

 

But I think the devs of Obsidian are already well aware of that.

 

agreed. for years we has been suggesting that the conventional wisdom concerning ps:t failure was wrong... and truth to tell is that it was all just Gromnir opinion. didn't have no extensive research or market surveys to back up our suggestion that ps:t did not fail 'cause folks was too simple and uncultured to appreciate the quality of writing in ps:t. was always disappointed that developer thought ps:t failed primarily 'cause of too much text or excessive reliance on slowly developing characters.

 

kotor seems to dispel many misconceptions 'bout what can and cannot succeed in crpgs.

 

meanwhile, we will sit back and let krazy prove our point for us... is doing a pretty good job when he responds exactly as we claims he will, no?

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Stalins Ghost]

has anyone noticed how the topic no longer bears any resemblence to the original topic, lol

 

heres my thoughts the discussion:

right, so what if the combat system is essentially rubbish and the story is infact rather poor and covered by a veil of SW to make it good, who cares- nearly everyone i know got hooked on it. IT. IS. GOOD.-because it makes you want to play it, so what if its not really that revolutionary so long as its an absolute blast playing it.... get what i mean

[Karzak]

has anyone noticed how the topic no longer bears any resemblence to the original topic, lol

 

heres my thoughts the discussion:

right, so what if the combat system is essentially rubbish and the story is infact rather poor and covered by a veil of SW to make it good, who cares- nearly everyone i know got hooked on it. IT. IS. GOOD.-because it makes you want to play it, so what if its not really that revolutionary so long as its an absolute blast playing it.... get what i mean

Yes, being wraped in star wars is what makes the game.

[Foss]

Hmm, I just bought PST for 32$ on EBAY.

 

Looking forward to it.

 

KotoR was good.

 

Fallout 1 and 2 are some of the best games I have ever played.

 

KotoR II will be good aswell I am sure.

 

Bioware haven't amazed me really...NWN disappointed me alittle.

 

Blackisle have given me some great games, and I really look forward to PST.

 

Now, those were the points I wanted to make )

No need for all those long replies.

[Volourn]

You haven't played the BG series yet?

[Karzak]

I've seen PS:T in a bargin bin for $10, I paid $20 years ago.

 

It's a better game than KotOR, but since I got KotOR for nothing, it was worth what I paid for it.

[Foss]

You haven't played the BG series yet?

Me?

Yes I have played both and Throne of Bhaal.

 

I liked them alot.

[Stalins Ghost]

i liked NWN a bit but i dont like rpgs much online (mainly cos i cant get online that often) so i didnt get the most outta it, and 2 be honest ive not really played any of Obsidians game, but im still confident cos all their games have got good reviews (from PCG UK anyway) so I expect nothing less than a stunning effort with this title

[Tyrell]

What does CRPG stand for?

[Karzak]

computer role playing game

 

"console" role playing game for KotOR

[Volourn]

Foss, how much is a lot? As I'm sure you know they were made by BIO so even though you were dissapointed in NWN, it's obvious if you mean you liked the BG alot, BIo has "amazed' you at least once (depending what you mean by amazed of course).

[Karzak]

Foss, how much is a lot? As I'm sure you know they were made by BIO so even though you were dissapointed in NWN, it's obvious if you mean you liked the BG alot, BIo has "amazed' you at least once (depending what you mean by amazed of course).

NWN certainly amazed me.

[roguefrog]

NWN disappointed me. Either my expectations were too high, or the game just sucked. I lean towards the latter.

[Cantousent]

I'm sorry, Karzak. Sometimes when you write KotOR, I must read NWN. After all, the same arguments seem to crop up in regards to both. Substitute a few words here and there, and we've got the same argument all over again.

 

As for the reasons I like the game? Well, I could argue that I liked the characters, the graphics, the voice over work, and the atmosphere of the game. That would all be true. I'm going to give you a hand, though. I liked KotOR because it was Star Wars. I liked it because I remember seeing the first Star Wars in all it's mass culture appeal and finding it, indeed, appealing. When I played KotOR, I said to myself, "wow, looks like Bioware should have written the screenplay for Episodes one and two."

 

Notice, episodes one and two also have the Star Wars names associated with them. I am not, however, a big fan of episodes one and two. I can't speak for others, but I suspect I am not alone.

 

I'm as big a PS:T fan as anyone here. It's my favorite game, but that doesn't mean I'm going to carry a chip on my shoulder the size of a boulder. KotOR can be fun without threatening PS:T.

 

I've always admired your single minded drive when it comes to discussions, Karzak. I think it's crazy, but you stick to your guns. Fair enough, but saying that KotOR succeeded in large or in part because of the Star Wars name really has very little significance. In fact, it answers the originating post rather well. After all, why have a bad feeling about KotOR 2? It will sport the same Star Wars label, right?