Toddler shoots mom in a Wal-Mart

[Woldan]

Its a highly controversial topic amongst gun owners, but personally I'd never carry a gun that has no manual safety, or at least I'd not carry them in condition 0  (round in the chamber, c0cked, safety off/no safety) and this includes Glocks - which I really like. 

And I definitely wouldn't want it banging around in my purse, I'd want it secured in a holster where nothing can touch its trigger. 

Edited December 31, 2014 by Woldan

[Walsingham]

Of course, we as a society could try something breathtakingly rational as to reach out to people before they flip their damn lid and shoot up a school.

 

Society feeds that kind of rage with it's self-centeredness and apathy. Just look in this very forum, a guy comes here reaches out, says he's lonely. What do people do... charge into the thread and poke fun and derail the whole thing into a conversation about hookers.

 

You really want to know why people are going bonkers? Look at how they get treated. If just one person stopped to listen or help, some of them might not have spilled over into crazy.

 

Partly true. You're assuming that just reaching out is all that's needed.

 

I don't know how many proper headcases you've met. But I've met more than my quota and reaching out isn't that easy. Yes, it's worth trying, but don't kid around like it works most of the time.

[Guard Dog]

All the other shoppers in Walmart dodged a bullet that day.

Please tell me that was not intended as the worst pun... ever!

[Guard Dog]

Society feeds that kind of rage with it's self-centeredness and apathy. Just look in this very forum, a guy comes here reaches out, says he's lonely. What do people do... charge into the thread and poke fun and derail the whole thing into a conversation about hookers.

 

Oh I wouldn't read too much into that. All of our threads derail wildly around here. Anyone who spends more than 5 minutes on this board knows that if your looking for rational psychological advice you've come to the wrong shop. We're all somewhere between mildly dysfunctional to downright nuts around here.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

All the other shoppers in Walmart dodged a bullet that day.

[Luridis]

 

Of course, we as a society could try something breathtakingly rational as to reach out to people before they flip their damn lid and shoot up a school.

 

Society feeds that kind of rage with it's self-centeredness and apathy. Just look in this very forum, a guy comes here reaches out, says he's lonely. What do people do... charge into the thread and poke fun and derail the whole thing into a conversation about hookers.

 

You really want to know why people are going bonkers? Look at how they get treated. If just one person stopped to listen or help, some of them might not have spilled over into crazy.

 

Partly true. You're assuming that just reaching out is all that's needed.

 

I don't know how many proper headcases you've met. But I've met more than my quota and reaching out isn't that easy. Yes, it's worth trying, but don't kid around like it works most of the time.

 

 

Reaching out by one, or reaching out by many? How about just not continuing to attack people until they do something crazy. It's not as simple as one person, it's a pile of rubble that we need not to put on in the first place. Not easy by any means, but neither is anything else. But we have to start somewhere, and chasing political deadlocks for decades doesn't seem to be helping.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Luridis

[Walsingham]

Well, I'd agree that prodding headcases just to get a reaction is borderline psycho itself.

 

From what I dimly recall of school, this is pretty much how it goes. 

 

Don't get me wrong. I prodded weak kids when I was a kid. But I had good role models and they convinced me otherwise.

[pmp10]

What I find most puzzling about gun control advocates... And, I'm not speaking of the ones who just want better background checks and/or better and more regular training. No, I mean the ones who think civilians should not own guns... period. What I find puzzling about them is that they actually believe that the government does not abuse it's position of power, when we've seen nothing but that since the Patriot Act.

 

Gitmo, NSA, Stop & Frisk, Bad Cops, people held without charges or bail.

 

So, what are you going to do? Throw rocks at them if they turn on the populace?

I heard this argument a few times and I never understood the logic behind it.

If 'assault rifle in every home' didn't turn back US army in Iraq and Afghanistan then I think it's safe to say that civilians cannot oppose modern military forces in open conflicts.

That's why people turn to terror for their violent policy changing.

[Luridis]

 

What I find most puzzling about gun control advocates... And, I'm not speaking of the ones who just want better background checks and/or better and more regular training. No, I mean the ones who think civilians should not own guns... period. What I find puzzling about them is that they actually believe that the government does not abuse it's position of power, when we've seen nothing but that since the Patriot Act.

 

Gitmo, NSA, Stop & Frisk, Bad Cops, people held without charges or bail.

 

So, what are you going to do? Throw rocks at them if they turn on the populace?

I heard this argument a few times and I never understood the logic behind it.

If 'assault rifle in every home' didn't turn back US army in Iraq and Afghanistan then I think it's safe to say that civilians cannot oppose modern military forces in open conflicts.

That's why people turn to terror for their violent policy changing.

 

 

Oh yea, I'm sure every Afghan and Iraqi had went out to their local sporting goods store or gun show and picked up plenty enough to fight the good fight.

 

I've not heard your argument before and I don't understand the logic behind making stuff up ("assault rifle in every home of 2 3rd world countries") and then founding your whole argument upon it.

 

So, you know... keep flapping. I'm sure it will make sense to the polarized and mob mentality public.

 

Don't worry, I won't respond to anything you might say in reply because what you said up there was doubtless an argument regurgitated from one of the two dominant news agencies. I don't watch TV so I can avoid them and I'll be damned if I'll sit here and let you relay it to me as their proxy.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Luridis

[Luridis]

Well, I'd agree that prodding headcases just to get a reaction is borderline psycho itself.

 

From what I dimly recall of school, this is pretty much how it goes. 

 

Don't get me wrong. I prodded weak kids when I was a kid. But I had good role models and they convinced me otherwise.

 

Hurrah for role models, I had one too... He was a biker, and a carpenter for 5 star jewelry stores, or whatever they call those ones that sell to the top 1 percenters.

[Hurlshort]

 

News like these are a dime a dozen in states with lax gun laws. Give me news where a gun saved someone instead.

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/10-potential-mass-shootings-that-were-stopped-by-someone-wit#.tj1YYnn4E6

 

Clear enough?

 

 

I did notice more than half of those incidents involved off-duty police officers, which kind of weakens the argument for random citizens carrying concealed weapons to protect the world.  

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/12/31/the-inside-story-of-how-an-idaho-toddler-shot-his-mom-at-wal-mart/

 

This woman was educated, trained, and had a lot of experience with guns.  So I'm not comfortable just writing her off as incompetent.  I definitely have trouble relating to the culture of carrying around a gun wherever you go.  I've lived in rural areas, I've had guns in my house.  Usually the only use they've ever been was to scare off coyotes, but I get that they are reassuring when you know the police response time isn't great.  My wife does competitive skeet shooting.  But we keep the ammo separate and out of reach, we keep the gun in pieces, and the only time it leaves the house is to go to the range.

 

 

As for using guns to overthrow the government, good luck with that.  The greatest weapon against the government in a revolution is going to be the media and the ability to spread information.  You aren't going to compete against the military, you want the military to turn against the government with you.    

[Luridis]

 

 

News like these are a dime a dozen in states with lax gun laws. Give me news where a gun saved someone instead.

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/10-potential-mass-shootings-that-were-stopped-by-someone-wit#.tj1YYnn4E6

 

Clear enough?

 

 

I did notice more than half of those incidents involved off-duty police officers, which kind of weakens the argument for random citizens carrying concealed weapons to protect the world.  

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/12/31/the-inside-story-of-how-an-idaho-toddler-shot-his-mom-at-wal-mart/

 

This woman was educated, trained, and had a lot of experience with guns.  So I'm not comfortable just writing her off as incompetent.  I definitely have trouble relating to the culture of carrying around a gun wherever you go.  I've lived in rural areas, I've had guns in my house.  Usually the only use they've ever been was to scare off coyotes, but I get that they are reassuring when you know the police response time isn't great.  My wife does competitive skeet shooting.  But we keep the ammo separate and out of reach, we keep the gun in pieces, and the only time it leaves the house is to go to the range.

 

 

As for using guns to overthrow the government, good luck with that.  The greatest weapon against the government in a revolution is going to be the media and the ability to spread information.  You aren't going to compete against the military, you want the military to turn against the government with you.    

 

 

Nice... No seriously. I see your points, especially the one about insurrection within the ranks of the actual armed services. Because, I would hope that if they're ordered to turn their weapons on unarmed civilians of their own country they'd have some kind of objection. I love it when someone says something not puked out of CNN or Fox.

 

At the same time, better to have something to fight than just get steamrolled. And, at the same time, American civilians are often armed better than is assumed. It's not uncommon to see hunters or survivalists with sophisticated stuff like night vision, etc. Additionally, may of them are previous members of the military themselves and therefore know the tactics and equipment likely to be employed against them. So, it would not be tilted in favor of the civilian for sure, it would also not likely be as easy as invading the 3rd world.

 

The biggest problem would likely be the helicopters.

[Volourn]

"Canadians are wanking themselves over this on news sites here, rather funny that. Wonder what type of gun she had."

 

They shouldn't be since we just had a mass murder committed in our country.

 

 

"As for using guns to overthrow the government, good luck with that.  The greatest weapon against the government in a revolution is going to be the media and the ability to spread information.  You aren't going to compete against the military, you want the military to turn against the government with you."

 

It's been done before. It is unlikely but not out of the realm possibility. It's not simply about outshooting the army. It's about forcing the army to ultimiately make a choice between mass murdering civlians or obeying the gov't's threat of murdering them for treason.

[Walsingham]

 

 

It's been done before. It is unlikely but not out of the realm possibility. It's not simply about outshooting the army. It's about forcing the army to ultimiately make a choice between mass murdering civlians or obeying the gov't's threat of murdering them for treason.

 

Again, soldiers have a far easier time shooting civilians if the civilians are shooting them back.

[Volourn]

Only up to a point.

[licketysplit]

This is why i'm for stricter gun laws in the states. These tragedies happen way too often and careless idiots are allowed to own guns and store them without any safety measures whatsoever. Maybe it's because I hunt and treat guns with the respect they deserve. I get the feeling people who buy guns only for protection are making a huge mistake.

[Woldan]

This is why i'm for stricter gun laws in the states. These tragedies happen way too often and careless idiots are allowed to own guns and store them without any safety measures whatsoever. Maybe it's because I hunt and treat guns with the respect they deserve. I get the feeling people who buy guns only for protection are making a huge mistake.

 

Stricter gun laws don't make people any less careless. If there laws were as strict as possible she still would have shot herself because of carelessness. Same if the laws were super relaxed. 

 

Reckless driving is forbidden and the proper driving behavior is taught in driving schools yet tenths of thousands of people die each year because of reckless driving. You cannot prevent peoples stupidity by law, you can take away dangerous things some people might use to hurt each other out of carelessness or stupidity, but this is a two sided blade, and banning things or making super strict laws because of some foul apples doesn't make life any brighter. 

Edited December 31, 2014 by Woldan

[Hurlshort]

Or we can just automate driving, which is what we are moving towards.  Self driving cars for the win.  

 

 

So maybe in the future we can all have smart guns that only fire at bad guys.

[Woldan]

The problem is if there happen accidents with remote controlled cars, who is responsible? And if you hack them, or hack smart guns? Thats just as if not even more dangerous than how things are right now. The future will be filled with lethal cyber terrorism. 

Edited December 31, 2014 by Woldan

[licketysplit]

 

This is why i'm for stricter gun laws in the states. These tragedies happen way too often and careless idiots are allowed to own guns and store them without any safety measures whatsoever. Maybe it's because I hunt and treat guns with the respect they deserve. I get the feeling people who buy guns only for protection are making a huge mistake.

 

Stricter gun laws don't make people any less careless. If there laws were as strict as possible she still would have shot herself because of carelessness. Same if the laws were super relaxed. 

 

Reckless driving is forbidden and the proper driving behavior is taught in driving schools yet tenths of thousands of people die each year because of reckless driving. You cannot prevent peoples stupidity by law, you can take away dangerous things some people might use to hurt each other out of carelessness or stupidity, but this is a two sided blade, and banning things or making super strict laws because of some foul apples doesn't make life any brighter. 

 

 

This fits neatly into the NRA's mantra to do nothing about it because, well, people are flawed. I don't buy that logic. Fittingly, there are all manner of laws and regulations when I operate my vehicle. Not the case with guns. Should I carry a loaded gun in my purse next to my toddler? Is it a good idea to teach this 12 yr old girl to shoot an uzi? I dare say we could create legislation to prevent these scenarios.

Edited December 31, 2014 by licketysplit

[Woldan]

This fits neatly into the NRA's mantra to do nothing about it because, well, people are flawed. I don't buy that logic. Fittingly, there are all manner of laws and regulations when I operate my vehicle.Not the case with guns.

Its forbidden by law to shoot people. Also its forbidden by law to run over people with your car. Edited December 31, 2014 by Woldan

[licketysplit]

 

This fits neatly into the NRA's mantra to do nothing about it because, well, people are flawed. I don't buy that logic. Fittingly, there are all manner of laws and regulations when I operate my vehicle.Not the case with guns.

Its forbidden by law to shoot people. Also its forbidden by law to run over people with your car.

 

 

And giving an uzi to a 12 yr old should also be forbidden. Your rights should not trump public safety.

[Woldan]

No, parents putting their children in lethal danger should be forbidden, you can save many more lives that way. In fact, just make stupidity illegal by law and the world will be beautiful again. Because thats how laws work... unless you decide not to obey the law

 

Terrorism and all that ugly stuff, well who cares.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Woldan

[licketysplit]

No, parents putting their children in lethal danger should be forbidden, you can save many more lives that way. In fact, just make stupidity illegal by law and the world will be beautiful again. Because thats how laws work... unless you decide not to obey the law

 

Terrorism and all that ugly stuff, well who cares.

 

It's the mother who put potentially everyone in danger that day. That's why more regulation is needed to keep idiots from owning guns. If the kid blasted someone else there would rightly have been a huge lawsuit. Anyway, **** yeah Murica, god, guns and groceries!

 

I'm out.

[Guard Dog]

Here we go. The solution is to restrict the freedom of millions of people who did nothing wrong because of the handful of nitwits who did. I could easily make the argument the all violent video games should be banned because studies prove exposure to violence in video games causes violence in kids.

 

After all no one was shooting up schools after playing Pac Man