30 min vid about the dumbing down of The Elder Scrolls franchise

[Luckmann]

 

The game does not react to the character you've created. Some waifish, elven sorceress with pitiful melee combat skills is accepted just as readily into the Companions as some hulking Nord warrior...and that same Nord warrior can join the mages' guild just as easily as the waifish elf. Despite the obvious racism present in Skyrim, there's next to no reaction to your character's race whatsoever. Despite the fact that Windhelm is supposed to be a hotbed of prejudice against people like Dark Elves and Argonians, playing as either of those races elicited no unique responses at all. One NPC even asked my High Elf Dragonborn if I were one of those "Skyrim for the Nords" types. Um...what?

 

They barely even react to what you're wearing...someone can wear Stormcloak armour into an imperial-controlled and the worst that will happen is you'll get a few irritated remarks from certain NPCs. I distinctly recall strutting into Windhelm as a High Elf wearing Thalmor robes...and somehow I wasn't attacked on sight.

This one's a giant SO WHAT.

 

None of the IE games react to the character you created either - which means that in terms of RPG significance, it must not matter that much to the game's fun factor. More to the point: I rank NPCs walking up to you and saying "Hey! you're an elf!" or "Hey, you're a half orc cleric who's wearing leather armor! Get off my lawn!" just slightly more important than being able to customize the shape of your nose in the character creator.

 

 

When it was relevant in the IE games, you were occasionally called out on race. The difference is that in the IE games, it was very rarely relevant in a way that you'd expect to be called out on it.

 

Skyrim is a completely different deal. At the very least, I expected for most to make a distinction between Men and Mer. But not even the Stormcloaks, pointed out as "racist" by cultural marxists everywhere, seem to care. At all.

 

With the established background, I was surprised to see that I as an Altmer could just walk straight up to Ulfric and stab him in the face without even being questioned what High Elf was doing there.

[Stun]

??? Your Altmer can walk up to Ulfric without being questioned because you shared a prisoner cart with him (and one of his lieutenants) in the beginning of the game. He already knows you.

 

Again, compare that with a MAGE Bhaalspawn who exits Irenicus' Dungeon hand-in-hand with Imoen, but then doesn't get arrested or even questioned by the Cowled wizards, even though he/she is 1) a mage; 2) one of those involved in the disturbance.

 

 

This "everyone knows-what-you-are" type of 'reactivity' you guys want is nothing more than superficial vanity stuff. It's nice when devs include it in their games, but it's not all that important. And from what I've noticed from modern RPGs, developers who shovel giant amounts of this type of ego-stroking vanity into their games usually do so to mask the shallow nature of either the game's story or the game's mechanics. The Dragon Age games come to mind.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Stun

[Namutree]

 

 

The game does not react to the character you've created. Some waifish, elven sorceress with pitiful melee combat skills is accepted just as readily into the Companions as some hulking Nord warrior...and that same Nord warrior can join the mages' guild just as easily as the waifish elf. Despite the obvious racism present in Skyrim, there's next to no reaction to your character's race whatsoever. Despite the fact that Windhelm is supposed to be a hotbed of prejudice against people like Dark Elves and Argonians, playing as either of those races elicited no unique responses at all. One NPC even asked my High Elf Dragonborn if I were one of those "Skyrim for the Nords" types. Um...what?

 

They barely even react to what you're wearing...someone can wear Stormcloak armour into an imperial-controlled and the worst that will happen is you'll get a few irritated remarks from certain NPCs. I distinctly recall strutting into Windhelm as a High Elf wearing Thalmor robes...and somehow I wasn't attacked on sight.

This one's a giant SO WHAT.

 

None of the IE games react to the character you created either - which means that in terms of RPG significance, it must not matter that much to the game's fun factor. More to the point: I rank NPCs walking up to you and saying "Hey! you're an elf!" or "Hey, you're a half orc cleric who's wearing leather armor! Get off my lawn!" just slightly more important than being able to customize the shape of your nose in the character creator.

 

 

When it was relevant in the IE games, you were occasionally called out on race. The difference is that in the IE games, it was very rarely relevant in a way that you'd expect to be called out on it.

 

Skyrim is a completely different deal. At the very least, I expected for most to make a distinction between Men and Mer. But not even the Stormcloaks, pointed out as "racist" by cultural marxists everywhere, seem to care. At all.

 

With the established background, I was surprised to see that I as an Altmer could just walk straight up to Ulfric and stab him in the face without even being questioned what High Elf was doing there.

 

The people who call the Stormcloaks racists often exaggerate the issue. It's not that they hate non-Nords; they just don't care about the needs of non-Nordic residents. 

 

Bethesda specialises in making the same game over and over, only each iteration possesses fewer features and more bugs. I must say, they really outdid themselves with the sheer number of bugs they managed to cram into Skyrim, such as how the release version ran about 50% slower than it should have due to Bethesda's programmers forgetting to enable compiler optimisations. Evidently their QA process amounts to little more than "Does the game install, yes/no?"

 

Skyrim has bugs, but is easily the smoothest running Elder Scrolls game in the main series. Anyone remember Daggerfall? I do. The game was at least 1200% buggier than Skyrim on release. It couldn't even be completed without a patch. In Morrowind it was very rare that you could play for even twenty minuets without merging with a rock or all the buildings disappearing with only doors floating. As for how well the games run: In Morrowind the game has to load every time you enter a new cell; which is often since an individual cell is small. 

 

 

 

And not only does each game remove yet more RPG features, they also have an NPC (M'aiq the Liar) who serves no purpose but to mock fans who complain about the removal of said features. Classy, Bethesda, very classy.

 

Yeah, they do remove features, but they also add in new ones; not to mention that a lot of the old features were either useless or didn't even work. In Skyrim you can actually put points into your skills with branching growth options. Back in the day there were more skills sure, but there was little depth to them. It's funny that people call the new system where you make more choices and those choices have consequences, "dumbing down"; while the old system was just grind your skills to be good. Unless you're talking Morrowind. In that game it was just pay some gold for 100 in all skills and infinite levels. So smart was the old system.

 

 

 

Combat is even less interesting than in previous TES games, as the best way to fight is by making sneak attacks with a Daedric bow for massive damage...a strategy aided by the boneheaded enemy AI that seems awful quick to go from "Hey, someone just shot my friend in the face!" to "Ahh...it was probably nothing. Playing as a mage is distinctly unsatisfying, as spells do not scale with your level, but enemies so, so your spells will invariably become obsolete. Spellmaking is gone, and weapon enchanting has been greatly scaled back. Were player-crafted spells overpowered in Oblivion? Sure, but creating obscenely-powerful spells and weaponry was part of the fun.

 

The best way to fight in Morrowind was to make was to buff your luck to uber high levels and be literally invincible since enemies can't hit you. "Oh look, I can't even be attacked. How interesting!" In Oblivion enemies can't even hurt you as fast as you can heal yourself. The fights in Oblivion also took forever for no good reason as the damage was stupid low, and you also don't have very many ways in which to attack so combat was extremely repetitive.

 

 

 

They barely even react to what you're wearing...someone can wear Stormcloak armour into an imperial-controlled and the worst that will happen is you'll get a few irritated remarks from certain NPCs. I distinctly recall strutting into Windhelm as a High Elf wearing Thalmor robes...and somehow I wasn't attacked on sight.

 

The Stormcloaks don't attack Thalmor on site.

 

 

 

The game does not react to the character you've created. Some waifish, elven sorceress with pitiful melee combat skills is accepted just as readily into the Companions as some hulking Nord warrior

 

The companions don't have a racial policy, and they make you spar with a member to prove your worth in combat. So...BS.

 

and that same Nord warrior can join the mages' guild just as easily as the waifish elf. Despite the obvious racism present in Skyrim, there's next to no reaction to your character's race whatsoever.

Why wouldn't they? As long as you can use magic than why wouldn't the guild accept you? Why would the guild turn away a Nord in a country of Nords?

 

 

 Despite the obvious racism present in Skyrim, there's next to no reaction to your character's race whatsoever. Despite the fact that Windhelm is supposed to be a hotbed of prejudice against people like Dark Elves and Argonians, playing as either of those races elicited no unique responses at all. One NPC even asked my High Elf Dragonborn if I were one of those "Skyrim for the Nords" types. Um...what?

 

There is a reaction to your race in Skyrim. Plenty of it. Also, there's plenty reason for that NPC to ask if your High Elf was one of those, "Skyrim is for Nords" types. Being a high elf doesn't mean that you're against racism. They don't know if your just visiting or what you believe. You can even meet imperials in the game who believe in the Stormcloaks cause.

 

I could go on, but I'm feeling lazy.

[Failion]

That is the problem with elder scrolls after morrowind there is no reactivity in the world or any REAL politics, it gives the illusion that there is this sandbox element where you can change things but the world is very static and takes no notice. Todd howard and bethesda crew obviously don't care at all. Because less scripting work involved and they prefer it this way themselves. 

[Lord Wafflebum]

I played a mage in BG2 at some point and after leaving the dungeon I thought some wizards showed up and told me I had to buy a permit to cast inside the city? Am I not remembering that correctly?

[HoonDing]

i marry Serana in Skyrim but maybe it was mod?

[Lord Wafflebum]

i marry Serana in Skyrim but maybe it was mod?

Yes, I have the same mod

[Namutree]

That is the problem with elder scrolls after morrowind there is no reactivity in the world or any REAL politics, it gives the illusion that there is this sandbox element where you can change things but the world is very static and takes no notice. Todd howard and bethesda crew obviously don't care at all. Because less scripting work involved and they prefer it this way themselves. 

WTF are you talking about? In Morrowind you can't change anything. Who's in control of Balmora? The Tel'Vanni. Who's in control of Morrowind? The Empire. In Skyrim your actions determine whether or not the country remains a part of the Empire.

 

That's a pretty big deal.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Namutree

[Stun]

That is the problem with elder scrolls after morrowind there is no reactivity in the world or any REAL politics, it gives the illusion that there is this sandbox element where you can change things but the world is very static and takes no notice. Todd howard and bethesda crew obviously don't care at all. Because less scripting work involved and they prefer it this way themselves.

Real Politics lol

 

While we're at it, we might as well criticize the Elder scrolls games for not implementing Firearms. Or Decent French accents. Or drama-gushing romances.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Stun

[Failion]

 

That is the problem with elder scrolls after morrowind there is no reactivity in the world or any REAL politics, it gives the illusion that there is this sandbox element where you can change things but the world is very static and takes no notice. Todd howard and bethesda crew obviously don't care at all. Because less scripting work involved and they prefer it this way themselves. 

WTF are you talking about? In Morrowind you can't change anything. Who's in control of Balmora? The Tel'Vanni. Who's in control of Morrowind? The Empire. In Skyrim your actions determine whether or not the country remains a part of the Empire.

 

That's a pretty big deal.

 

NPCS least reacted to your reputation, start of game gaurds call you scum end game they worship you lol. End game guild quests like fighters/mages guild had multiple choices you can make. You can only side with one dark elf house determining which one dominates morrowind. Game was ahead of its time. Skyrim it felt like 60 hours I was still some chump that guards told they took an arrow in the knee to. And the only thing that I changed in the game world was move quest script to quest script 

 

 

 

That is the problem with elder scrolls after morrowind there is no reactivity in the world or any REAL politics, it gives the illusion that there is this sandbox element where you can change things but the world is very static and takes no notice. Todd howard and bethesda crew obviously don't care at all. Because less scripting work involved and they prefer it this way themselves.

Real Politics lol

 

While we're at it, we might as well criticize the Elder scrolls games for not implementing Firearms. Or Decent French accents. Or drama-gushing romances.

 

What I meant you determine fate of factions, towns, npcs etc. Skyrim you pidgeon holed into being leader and savior of everypme. 

Edited December 28, 2014 by Failion

[Luckmann]

 

 

 

The game does not react to the character you've created. Some waifish, elven sorceress with pitiful melee combat skills is accepted just as readily into the Companions as some hulking Nord warrior...and that same Nord warrior can join the mages' guild just as easily as the waifish elf. Despite the obvious racism present in Skyrim, there's next to no reaction to your character's race whatsoever. Despite the fact that Windhelm is supposed to be a hotbed of prejudice against people like Dark Elves and Argonians, playing as either of those races elicited no unique responses at all. One NPC even asked my High Elf Dragonborn if I were one of those "Skyrim for the Nords" types. Um...what?

 

They barely even react to what you're wearing...someone can wear Stormcloak armour into an imperial-controlled and the worst that will happen is you'll get a few irritated remarks from certain NPCs. I distinctly recall strutting into Windhelm as a High Elf wearing Thalmor robes...and somehow I wasn't attacked on sight.

This one's a giant SO WHAT.

 

None of the IE games react to the character you created either - which means that in terms of RPG significance, it must not matter that much to the game's fun factor. More to the point: I rank NPCs walking up to you and saying "Hey! you're an elf!" or "Hey, you're a half orc cleric who's wearing leather armor! Get off my lawn!" just slightly more important than being able to customize the shape of your nose in the character creator.

 

 

When it was relevant in the IE games, you were occasionally called out on race. The difference is that in the IE games, it was very rarely relevant in a way that you'd expect to be called out on it.

 

Skyrim is a completely different deal. At the very least, I expected for most to make a distinction between Men and Mer. But not even the Stormcloaks, pointed out as "racist" by cultural marxists everywhere, seem to care. At all.

 

With the established background, I was surprised to see that I as an Altmer could just walk straight up to Ulfric and stab him in the face without even being questioned what High Elf was doing there.

 

The people who call the Stormcloaks racists often exaggerate the issue. It's not that they hate non-Nords; they just don't care about the needs of non-Nordic residents. 

 

[...]

 

I realize that and agree, but it's still a perfectly reasonable thing to be expected. The Stormcloaks very much are Skyrim is for the Nords and there is very "real" racial tensions supposedly going on in Skyrim, and there was a major Tamriel-wide race war with Mer in general and Altmer in particular being the aggressors.

 

The lack of reactivity in that is ridiculous in relation to the situation that Bethesda tried to paint out.

 

??? Your Altmer can walk up to Ulfric without being questioned because you shared a prisoner cart with him (and one of his lieutenants) in the beginning of the game. He already knows you.

Ulfric has seen you in passing once, for a brief time. You've never talked to him, and more likely than not, haven't done anything for him. For all he knows, you could just as easily be a plant. Nevermind that that is beside the point that there's at best 4 Stormcloaks total that even know that - you shouldn't even have gotten inside the door without being questioned.

 

And even so, even Ulfric should still ask himself - and you - why you would work against your ethnic interests. The Stormcloaks are portrayed as being ethnically concious, but they act completely oblivious.

 

Again, compare that with a MAGE Bhaalspawn who exits Irenicus' Dungeon hand-in-hand with Imoen, but then doesn't get arrested or even questioned by the Cowled wizards, even though he/she is 1) a mage; 2) one of those involved in the disturbance.

1) They have no idea you're a mage at that point; 2) You weren't involved in the disturbance at all. Even Imoen is only arrested because Irenicus insists on it.

 

That particular scene always grinded my gears, by the way, simply because you can't get involved even if you wanted. So while that scene is one of the worse parts of Baldur's Gate II (while simultaneously being one of the best due to Irenicus absolutely demolishing the Cowled Wizards with suitable panache) it in no way supports your argument.

 

This "everyone knows-what-you-are" type of 'reactivity' you guys want is nothing more than superficial vanity stuff. It's nice when devs include it in their games, but it's not all that important. And from what I've noticed from modern RPGs, developers who shovel giant amounts of this type of ego-stroking vanity into their games usually do so to mask the shallow nature of either the game's story or the game's mechanics. The Dragon Age games come to mind.

I have no idea what you are talking about. The "everyone-knows-what-you-are" ridiculousness is exactly what we don't want at all. It's that line of thought that allows you to just stroll into Ulfric's castle, or be hailed as the Dragonborn everywhere, or suddenly be known to be part of the Thieve's Guilde.

 

Seriously, it's one of the major complaints of the video in the opening post.

[Lord Wafflebum]

 

 

That is the problem with elder scrolls after morrowind there is no reactivity in the world or any REAL politics, it gives the illusion that there is this sandbox element where you can change things but the world is very static and takes no notice. Todd howard and bethesda crew obviously don't care at all. Because less scripting work involved and they prefer it this way themselves. 

WTF are you talking about? In Morrowind you can't change anything. Who's in control of Balmora? The Tel'Vanni. Who's in control of Morrowind? The Empire. In Skyrim your actions determine whether or not the country remains a part of the Empire.

 

That's a pretty big deal.

 

NPCS least reacted to your reputation, start of game gaurds call you scum end game they worship you lol. End game guild quests like fighters/mages guild had multiple choices you can make. You can only side with one dark elf house determining which one dominates morrowind. Game was ahead of its time. Skyrim it felt like 60 hours I was still some chump that guards told they took an arrow in the knee to. And the only thing that I changed in the game world was move quest script to quest script 

 

Regarding how guards reacted to you, there's a mod called Guard Dialogue Overhaul that implements guard reactivity toward your status, skills, etc. All the audio files existed, they just weren't implemented in the vanilla game. So a more reactive world was planned, but not implemented. Guess they ran out of time? The same goes for the Civil War Overhaul mod. The author used a lot of resources Bethesda had made for a more dynamic civil war, but wasn't able to get done for the vanilla game.

[Namutree]

 

Let's compare this to another "open world" game, Fallout: New Vegas:

 

 

I get it. There are some things that Fallout:NV does that Skyrim doesn't. Want me to make a list of things Skyrim has over Fallout:NV? You may find that many of your complaints about Skyrim are much worse in Fallout:NV.

[Lord Wafflebum]

 

 

Let's compare this to another "open world" game, Fallout: New Vegas:

 

 

I get it. There are some things that Fallout:NV does that Skyrim doesn't. Want me to make a list of things Skyrim has over Fallout:NV? You may find that many of your complaints about Skyrim are much worse in Fallout:NV.

 

Very true. As I've said all the Bethesda games tend to suffer when looking at just the vanilla game. When you take mods into account these games go from "ok" to "incredible." It's the same reason I'm not worried about how combat turns out for PoE. Even if OE completely botches combat somehow, there's going to be a mod made by Bester/Sensuki that will make it better. Either way I'm going to enjoy PoE.

 

What makes a studio special, in my opinion anyway, is when they make their game moddable knowing full well their community is going to do something even greater with it. Or in some cases horrifying (Skyrim's realistic horse genitals mods...).

[Stun]

What I meant you determine fate of factions, towns, npcs etc. Skyrim you pidgeon holed into being leader and savior of everypme.

Assuming of course that the game doesn't let you wipe out the Dark Brotherhood...which it does. But never mind that.

 

Lets sum things up now.

 

1) No real Politics? Check.

2) There are 4 factions, And the game is so herp-derp that it lets you join all 4 in one playthrough with no consequences? Check.

3) And you cannot decide the fate of any of them? Check.

4) There's virtually no NPC Reactivity to your actions or your character build? Check.

5) The combat is God Awful with a capital A? Check.

6) The game is so littered with fetch quests that it almost seems like it's taking pride in them? Check.

7) Some plot characters are immortal? Check.

 

Congratulations to me! I've just described one of the greatest RPGs ever created: Planescape Torment.

 

 

You people are grasping at straws. There's no game on earth that can critically survive the Microscope-like scrutiny you place Skyrim under. No Game.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Stun

[Namutree]

 

The people who call the Stormcloaks racists often exaggerate the issue. It's not that they hate non-Nords; they just don't care about the needs of non-Nordic residents. 

 

[...]

 

I realize that and agree, but it's still a perfectly reasonable thing to be expected. The Stormcloaks very much are Skyrim is for the Nords and there is very "real" racial tensions supposedly going on in Skyrim, and there was a major Tamriel-wide race war with Mer in general and Altmer in particular being the aggressors.

 

The lack of reactivity in that is ridiculous in relation to the situation that Bethesda tried to paint out.

 

Wasn't a race war. It was a war between the Altmeri Dominion and the Empire. Neither side was composed of a single race. The Empire contains plenty of Altmer and other Mer, and the Dominion contains more than Mer nations such as Elsweyr. Heck, the Orsimer were mostly on the Empire's side. 

 

People ignorant of Elder Scrolls lore figured that since the Stormcloaks are a little racist; that they must be hyper racists like the confederates, nazis, and kkk so we would have another rehash of the anyone racist is a lunatic lecture. Instead when it turned out that the Stormcloaks are only a little racist they were like, "WHY AREN'T THEY RACIST TO THE POINT OF BEING INSANE!?" Then decided that it was a flaw. 

 

I mean, all they do is ask the player why a non-Nord wants to join them. Since they weren't bat**** crazy how will we ever learn racism is bad? HOW? 

Edited December 28, 2014 by Namutree

[Stun]

Ulfric has seen you in passing once, for a brief time.

I beg your pardon? The trek from Darkwater crossing to Helgen is literally 2 game days by carriage. And that is how long you're stuck as prisoner with him. And this is aside from any event(s) that occurred prior to your capture. Then there's the Executioner's roll-call scene.

 

And... it doesn't matter. Ulfic SAYS he remembers you.

 

you shouldn't even have gotten inside the door without being questioned.

Just curious... um...why not? You were invited. And This isn't the Secret Service defending the president of the US from an uninvited citizen trying to break into the Whitehouse. This is the primitive, barbaric lands of Skyrim (Windhelm, to be specific), And the palace of kings is pretty much City Hall. There's a merchant selling his wares inside.

 

even Ulfric should still ask himself - and you - why you would work against your ethnic interests.

He does. Well, in his own diplomatic way.

 

The Stormcloaks are portrayed as being ethnically concious, but they act completely oblivious.

Actually, the game portrays them as fairly desperate and rag-tag, which would suggest that they'd be quite eager to accept anyone who wishes to side with them, let alone a Dovakiin.

 

1) They have no idea you're a mage at that point;

Sure they do. And even if they didn't, the very dialogue suggests that they take you in.

 

this is an illegal use of magical energy. ALL involved will be held. This disturbance is over.

 

And yes, you were very much involved. Or did you let Imoen escape on her own?

Edited December 28, 2014 by Stun

[Nakia]

I played a mage in BG2 at some point and after leaving the dungeon I thought some wizards showed up and told me I had to buy a permit to cast inside the city? Am I not remembering that correctly?

I also remember that happening at some point.  

 

No game  will ever be "perfect" and a certain amount of disbelief needs to be uspended.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Nakia

[Luckmann]

I beg your pardon? The trek from Darkwater crossing to Helgen is literally 2 game days by carriage. And that is how long you're stuck as prisoner with him. And this is aside from any event(s) that occurred prior to your capture. Then there's the Executioner's roll-call scene.

 

And... it doesn't matter. Ulfic SAYS he remembers you.

Everything in the opening dialogue suggests you're a new addition, unless there's something other than that in the metagame content that I've missed. Either way, you never interacted with Ulfric, seeing as how he's bound and gagged.

 

Just curious... um...why not? You were invited. And This isn't the Secret Service defending the president of the US from an uninvited citizen trying to break into the Whitehouse. This is the primitive, barbaric lands of Skyrim (Windhelm, to be specific), And the palace of kings is pretty much City Hall. There's a merchant selling his wares inside.

This being the "barbaric lands" of Skyrim doesn't mean that common sense doesn't apply. You don't have any kind of formal invitation with you whatsoever. The only "invitation" I know of is the Stormcloak in Helgen (if you ran with him after the opening scenes, instead of the Imperial) that tells you to go to Windhelm. And that's if you even stick with him and don't stab him in the back immediately and leave him dead by the wayside.

 

He does. Well, in his own diplomatic way.

Say whatnow?

 

Actually, the game portrays them as fairly desperate and rag-tag, which would suggest that they'd be quite eager to accept anyone who wishes to side with them, let alone a Dovakiin.

At that point, there is nothing suggesting you are Dovahkiin (depending on when you go there). Even so, that is a moot argument, seeing as how it isn't mentioned either, at that point.

 

Sure they do. And even if they didn't, the very dialogue suggests that they take you in.

 

this is an illegal use of magical energy. ALL involved will be held. This disturbance is over.

 

And yes, you were very much involved. Or did you let Imoen escape on her own?

No, they don't. Like I said, the entire scene prevents you from interacting in any meaningful capacity, let alone reveal yourself as a mage.

 

Which of course also invalidates your "argument" citing the dialogue. The whole point is that you're not involved. Otherwise they would've taken you too. The Cowled Wizards know nothing about Imoen's escape, or that you were involved in it. They have no idea who you or Imoen, or anyone even is - they don't even know who Irenicus is, save for the fact that he's an insane mage that just tore apart the Promenade.

 

And again, the only reason they even bother with Imoen is because Irenicus insists that she be taken as well, even though she attempted to assist in the defeat of Irenicus with what comparatively speaking is a mere cantrip (low-end Magic Missiles, if I'm not mistaken).

 

The scene may have it's flaws, but it does nothing to support your arguments.

[Stun]

 

I played a mage in BG2 at some point and after leaving the dungeon I thought some wizards showed up and told me I had to buy a permit to cast inside the city? Am I not remembering that correctly?

I also remember that happening at some point.

 

The cowled wizards will always teleport in if anyone in your party casts a wizard spell in the city streets. The "first time" it's a warning. The next 5 times after that they go hostile and attack you. But that has nothing to do with the scene at Waulkeen's Promenade.

 

 

 

No game will ever be "perfect" and a certain amount of disbelief needs to be uspended.

I disagree. I consider BG2 to be perfect.

 

Usually, with a *great*, timeless game, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, so any so-called flaws are just meaningless nitpicks typically ignored/overlooked by everyone except players who can't overcome their own double standards when trying to judge a game that isn't one of their favorites.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Stun

[Stun]

Everything in the opening dialogue suggests you're a new addition, unless there's something other than that in the metagame content that I've missed. Either way, you never interacted with Ulfric, seeing as how he's bound and gagged.

I'll repeat myself. Ulfric REMEMBERS YOU.

 

 

 

 

This being the "barbaric lands" of Skyrim doesn't mean that common sense doesn't apply.

It's not about common sense. It's about Culture. Nords don't shy away from confrontation. period. And again, it doesn't matter. The palace is adequately protected. Go ahead and *try* walking up to Ulfric and stabbing him in the face. You'll die and he won't.

 

 

 

He does. Well, in his own diplomatic way.

Say whatnow?

 

"why do you want to fight for us?"

 

That's like, the first f*cking question he asks you.

  

 

No, they don't. Like I said, the entire scene prevents you from interacting in any meaningful capacity,

You've *already* interacted. You're *with* imoen. She's in your party. And lets not forget that the Cowled Wizards don't actually *see* anything. They show up after the explosion, and after the spell-battle, and therefore they do not even witness Imoen (or Irenicus) casting spells. Yet, magically, they conclude that only Irenicus and Imoen are involved, but not the robe-wearing mage standing right next to her.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Stun

[Lord Wafflebum]

Ahhhhhh, that's right. My bad.

 

On another note, doesn't Ulfric's bear-man ask something you something along the lines of, "Why do you want to fight for us? You're not a Nord" assuming, in fact, you're not playing a Nord. I vaguely remember extra dialogue if you play any kind of elf, or a woman. I could be wrong, tho.

[Namutree]

Ahhhhhh, that's right. My bad.

 

On another note, doesn't Ulfric's bear-man ask something you something along the lines of, "Why do you want to fight for us? You're not a Nord" assuming, in fact, you're not playing a Nord. I vaguely remember extra dialogue if you play any kind of elf, or a woman. I could be wrong, tho.

You're not wrong. They do ask why a non-Nord wants to join them. You can respond by saying that, "Skyrim is home to more than Nords." They accept that answer.

[500MetricTonnes]

 

I played a mage in BG2 at some point and after leaving the dungeon I thought some wizards showed up and told me I had to buy a permit to cast inside the city? Am I not remembering that correctly?

I also remember that happening at some point.  

 

No game  will ever be "perfect" and a certain amount of disbelief needs to be uspended.

 

It's a common means of defending a game: Person A points out a flaw in Game A, and Person B defends Game A by pointing out that the same flaw is present in the well-regarded Game B. What Person B invariably fails to realise is that the flaw in Game B is usually extremely minor, while the same flaw exists across the board in Game A to its tremendous detriment.

 

When I was on BSN, people would complain (and rightly so) about the large amount of reused environments in Dragon Age II. The game's defenders would often retort with "B...b...but Dragon Age: Origins reused environments too!" What they won't mention is that the scope of the problem was much, much worse in DA2.

 

Did a game like BG2 fail to recognise the player character's qualities, such a race, on occasion? Of course it did...except that the game never established a world that was rife with racial tension. The only real targets of racial hatred were the drow...hence why recruiting Viconia results in a reputation hit, and why some party members might wind up trying to kill her. She won't romance an elven PC, either, due to her prejudice. You can't say the same about Skyrim, where all of the (incredibly shallow) "romances" are open to you regardless of your race or gender.

 

Was combat in Planescape: Torment bad? Yes, but combat is not at all the focus of the game. The focus is on the personal journey of The Nameless One to discover his past and find out why he cannot die. Saying the game's combat is bad is like complaining that a Bugatti Veyron has poor gas mileage. It's true enough, but also irrelevant considering what you're talking about. No one buys a Bugatti Veyron to save on gas.

 

Even great RPGs will have their flaws and drawbacks. But in each case, there are other well-crafted elements, such as combat, narrative, quest design, NPC personalities, etc. that make up for their shortcomings. Skyrim, on the other hand, is flawed in every aspect. There's something wrong with everything, and it's usually a major thing. Quest design, exploration, choice and consequence, RPG mechanics, combat, are all severely lacking and extremely shallow. The only thing the game does well is its landscape design and mod-friendliness. But what does it say about a game when the fanbase's rallying cry is, "The modders will fix it!" and the first bit of advice given to new players is often "Go download these half-dozen or so mods to fix the game's egregious design flaws!"?

 

My point, and the point the video's author makes, still stands - Skyrim is "dumbed down" largely because Bethesda's safety-scissors, hand-holding approach is manifest throughout. All paths are open to your character regardless of the character you've created. All quest-related NPCs, or even tangentially quest-related NPCs, are completely invulnerable, because Bethesda is terrified someone might make a choice that locks them out of a quest or faction. Some axe-wielding barbarian knucklehead can join the Mages' Guild so long as he can cast a few basic, low-level spells. And after thwarting the Thalmor agent's plot, he's automatically promoted to the rank of bloody archmage despite having demonstrated no real talent for leadership (or possibly even magic). That same knuckleheaded barbarian can go join the Thieves' Guild without any trouble whatsoever. In fact, the Thieves' Guild representative in Riften will speak to your character and automatically assume you're a thief, saying something like "You've never earned an honest septim, I can tell"...even if I've earned every septim legitimately. In Oblivion, I actually had to steal enough stuff to advance the Thieves' Guild questline. In fact, even finding the Thieves' Guild required a bit of work...because it's a freakin' guild of criminals. In Morrowind, there were minimum skill and attribute requirements to advance through the ranks of the Mages' Guild, or most other guilds for that matter.

 

That's why Skyrim fails completely as an RPG. I establish a role, and the game disregards that role except in the most superficial manner. My skills are "meh" my level is "whatever," every path is open to me, no matter how little sense it makes, nearly everything scales to your level, including enemies, loot, and even quest rewards. Hell, it wouldn't even surprise me if someone could beat the final boss at level 1 without the use of cheats or exploits.

 

To conclude, there's a quote from another forum (The Escapist, I think) that sums up Skyrim perfectly:

 

"I believe that Skyrim is a Bigfoot pizza from Pizza Hut. Do you remember that pile? It was a massive pizza, like the size of a bathtub, made with the cheapest ingredients anyone has ever dared use in a consumable product. But, this Skyrim pizza, you eat it alone, in a room, for hours and days. Every piece of it sustains you, only so that you can continue on to eat the next piece. Every piece tastes bland, and offers you almost noting in the way of nourishment, but it's still pizza, so you're not upset to be eating it. Pizza is inherently good, but, god damn, the more you eat this pizza, the more you come to hate the taste of it. After a time, it becomes a punishment. "Oh god, not another slice of that same stale-ass ****. There's so much of it, and none of it makes me happy! All this time and not once have I felt satisfied!"

 

This is the experience of playing Skyrim. It is an exercise in tedium that leaves you numbly continuing forward not for any meretricious reason, but only for its essential nature. TES games are always good in their nature, if not for what they offer. You will never feel as content to remain unsatisfied as you feel playing an Elder Scrolls game."

[Luridis]

Hey... Something I've seen crop up in subsequent comments again: all-or-nothing thinking. Again folks, this is unreality in your mind. Saying that if you examine closely enough you can pick any game to pieces, so it's better not to examine at all is silly.

 

Like any art, minimum standards of quality should apply or we'll start looking at everything like it's a Picasso. Am I saying Skyrim fails to meet any minimum? nope. But, I do think it's pretty far from the best RPG ever made.

 

Last, you can't consider community fixes, like I did, in your analysis of the game as it was delivered. People keep doing that and publishers will soon be outsourcing patch work to the fans. Sorta like Newegg has started outsourcing questions to it's customers. (No, it really has...)

 

 

No, I won't answer that question so you can fire another person from your customer support team.