Kickstarter in-game item / Pre-order in-game items

[gogocactus]

I understand your point Luckmann, but it feels 'wrong' to say that people who want the 'full' game (original game plus small downloadable content) and cannot get it any other way except through piracy, therefore automatically result to piracy.

 

I know you are not condoning it, but by presenting it as if they have no other option is does feel as if you present that course of action as natural. And frankly, I don't think that is the case. Life isn't fair. Some people always have something others don't. And in this case, backers can get something people who pre-order can't. That doesn't mean that people who didn't back get the right to pirate the game. That also doesn't mean that, in case they really want the exclusive content, pirating is the natural order of things. As Hassat Hunter said, in the end, any given 'reason' to pirate is just an excuse. To be able to take someone's property as any other common thief.

 

But then again, I guess one of the reasons this whole discussion got out of hand is because, perhaps other forum backers would share my opinion in so far as that exclusive downloadable content isn't a sufficient reason to even want to pirate a game all together. I mean, not only the proposition that anything 'leads' to piracy, but the proposition that something as small and insignificant as downloadable content would lead to it. I mean, neither I for myself nor any of my friends would care much about it at all.

 

But then again, you already understand all of the above as you won't buy the game unless you can get it, including all the downloadable content, legally. I find that very commendable. But more than that, I just wanted to note that perhaps it's not so much that you explain pirating as an (uncondonable, but) automatic course of action, but rather the underlying premise that something 'insignificant' like dlc can be a sufficient t'excuse'for some to pirate that offended peoples' opinions <shrug>.

 

That said, hope you can get the full game and can enjoy it. Can't wait till it comes out myself.

[Gorgon]

The retailer/backer/whatever DLCs  and goodies are usually insignficant,  If that is indeed what you are talking about. Just jumping in here out of the blue and not bothering to read the thread. A pretty far leap to say that they 'necessitate piracy' anyway. All of them together don't really represent the 'full game' if there was no such thing envisioned, rather a bunch of different flavors to chose from.

 

I have yet to encounter launch bonus content worth bothering about actually. 

[Katarack21]

To be able to take someone's property as any other common thief.

Piracy, or illegal file sharing to be more technical and accurate, is not theft. Theft is theft; taking something that somebody else has so that you now have it and they don't. The two things are not identical, they're not even directly equivalent. They might both be morally and ethically wrong, and they might both be illegal (both statements are debatable) but that's as far as the similarity goes. File sharing would be closer to fraud, although it's not actually the same as any other crime.

 

Illegal file sharing doesn't really have a corollary like that. It's a crime that can only exist in a society with a certain level and type of technology, and therefore before a certain time period this particular crime literally never once happened. The closest equivalent would be plagiarism, but even that isn't directly equivalent (because for the vast majority of piracy there is no attempt to take credit or profit in any way). For example, if I time-traveled to 1255, no matter where I went on the face of the earth, I literally could not commit illegal file sharing (piracy in the modern definition). The closest it would be possible for me to do would be to find something I liked, such as a rug for example, and then physically create another rug with as close a resemblance to the rug I liked as I can, and then give away or sell that. This happens all the time; it's where there's 5,345,879 types of corn flake in your local supermarket's cereal aisle.

[Nakia]

Back when I was studying computers I was told that if we as repair people or even employees of a company found an illegal copy of software on the machines we could report them and possibly received up to $200,000.  It was illegal then and it is illegal now.  

 

I also did quite a bit of research on copyright laws particularly in regard to games and checked with lawyers who are familiar with copyright and games.  Intellectual property is copyright and the makers/publishers of games own all  rights to those games as stated in the EULA. 

 

The music industry has the same problem.  I was interested to find out that if I copied the words from America the Beautiful and published them under the name "The Country I love" that would be illegal but if I wrote an original song and called it "America the Beautiful" that would be legal.  It is these cases the intellectual property that is important.  Copyright laws are complicated.

 

If you steal someone's property whether physical, digital or intellectual it is stealing even if you do not intend to make financial profit from it.  As for the excuse that "I can't afford to buy both the game and food I would like to point out that in order to play that game you need a computer and that entails a\n expense.  If you have internet access that entails an expense.  Oh, I know someone will probably argue that maybe they use a friend's or relative's computer.  We can continue the arguing into infinity. 

[Katarack21]

Back when I was studying computers I was told that if we as repair people or even employees of a company found an illegal copy of software on the machines we could report them and possibly received up to $200,000.  It was illegal then and it is illegal now.  

 

I also did quite a bit of research on copyright laws particularly in regard to games and checked with lawyers who are familiar with copyright and games.  Intellectual property is copyright and the makers/publishers of games own all  rights to those games as stated in the EULA. 

 

The music industry has the same problem.  I was interested to find out that if I copied the words from America the Beautiful and published them under the name "The Country I love" that would be illegal but if I wrote an original song and called it "America the Beautiful" that would be legal.  It is these cases the intellectual property that is important.  Copyright laws are complicated.

 

If you steal someone's property whether physical, digital or intellectual it is stealing even if you do not intend to make financial profit from it.  As for the excuse that "I can't afford to buy both the game and food I would like to point out that in order to play that game you need a computer and that entails a\n expense.  If you have internet access that entails an expense.  Oh, I know someone will probably argue that maybe they use a friend's or relative's computer.  We can continue the arguing into infinity. 

My computer cost $120, it's from 2007 (purchased in 2012), and I bought it using my backpay from disability (I don't have that money anymore). It's been upgraded since then, with hardware that was given to me by friends when they upgraded to better. It is, in point of fact, an exceptionally cheap (and crappy) computer which I was still incapable of actually affording if not for a one-time windfall. Because the computer is a small form factor (part of the reason it was so cheap) it has been upgraded as much as it can. There will come a time when this computer breaks or is simply to old to run modern software; I will use it until those things happen because I can't afford to upgrade, and when those happen I have no idea what I'm going to do. I can't afford to buy another one; even this exact computer is actually beyond my means.

 

My internet comes at the expense of other things. Internet is necessary because I go to college online (my disability makes brick-and-mortar colleges extremely difficult); like electricity, it's not something I can sacrifice for something else but rather a basic expense. Neither of those "indicate I can afford a game". They indicate that in those specific instances I was able to afford the expense, either because of a one-time windfall or because it's so basic that I simply can't afford to go without. Canceling my internet is literally cancelling all hope at further education. Unless you wanna be like McDonald's, and recommend quitting college to save money? I wasn't talking about myself, anyway. I was very specific in who I was talking about, and that it wasn't me. If you must know, I was talking about my best friend from high school.

 

As far as recieving up to $200,000--tell me, did that ever actually happen? I doubt it. I doubt it very much. Not one person in the history of America has ever been convicted in criminal court of illegal file sharing *without profit being obtained*. It's never happened. There have been a LOT of civil penalties, and there have been a lot of criminal convictions for people who were downloading *and selling copies*. Those are both different things. Not one person has ever spent a day in jail for downloading a movie, watching it, and deleting it. People have paid a lot of fines, though.

 

EULA's? Don't make me laugh. Sometimes they're enforced, sometimes they're not. Many times they're thrown out as unenforceable. There is *no* general court ruling on the enforceability of EULA's; each court case has been very intentionally limited to rulings about the specific terms and provisions of each individual EULA. EULA's, as a whole, are themselves a legal grey area with no clearly defined precedent.

 

The illegality of downloading copyrighted works *for personal use without any intention of distribution* is a legal grey area, whether you want to admit it or not. It's certainly not theft; it's not called theft, it's not legally treated like theft, and it in no way resembles theft. Copyright infringement, itself, is not theft. It never has been, and it's never been treated as if it is. However, convincing people that downloading and theft are exactly the same thing has been a huge and expensive campaign by the RIAA and MPAA, and in many cases it has worked.

 

Legally, and in actual observable reality, theft and copyright infringement are very distinct and different things. Even the US Supreme Court has stated this and ruled this as being a thing. Morally and ethically, well that's up for debate.

 

I would like to point out again--because I keep getting the feeling of not being believed--that I am in no way supporting the morality or ethical viability, nor defending in any way, piracy. I am simply stating what I know to be facts, and discussing the rationalizations and moral justifications which I have heard being applied.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Katarack21

[Silent Winter]

Just to back up what Katarack21 is saying:  Copyright infringement does not equal theft.

I studied law (UK) at Uni, IP law being a fave - copyright infringement is a civil case and in some cases can also be a criminal case, but it is not the same as theft, nor is it treated the same way.

(As Katarack21 said, that's a marketing tool by the big-guns).(As are the quoted figures for money 'lost' due to piracy - there will be some, just not of the '1 pirated copy = 1 lost sale' level.)

 

That doesn't make copyright infringement right, it just makes it different in a 'reckless driving does not equal theft' way.

[Katarack21]

 

(As are the quoted figures for money 'lost' due to piracy - there will be some, just not of the '1 pirated copy = 1 lost sale' level.)

 

 

In a lot of cases it's even more inflated then that. They'll do things like throw in a completely arbitrary and made up number and say it "represents the advertising revenue we lost due to lowered ratings from viewership being effected by piracy" or other crazy stuff like that. The numbers aren't real; their political. They want the numbers to be as high as possible, either to make the individual in this civil case look like the worst criminal possible to win the case, or just for marketing/political support/etc. Conversely, of course, most of the "pirate news source" things out there do the opposite, for similar reasons.

 

From my own personal experience, I'd say the number is lower than the companies claim and higher than the pirates claim, but probably closer to what the pirates are saying than what the companies are saying. Then again, I friggin' hate giant multinational corporations, so you might not want to take my word for that.

[Quadrone]

 

The Kickstarter item is not the same as the pre-order items.

 

We haven't revealed the Kickstarter item as of yet.

Well dang, I guess that's that, then.

 

 

The big question now seems to me:

Does that mean you're gonna pirate it now?

[rjshae]

Ah, just think what would happen if the bonus Kickstarter item was the only means to unlock the special, unique ending? The one they talk about for years because it was such a fantastic piece of work. This could lead to rioting in the streets. Fux News would start talking about the decaying morals of America's video gaming players. They might even have to call out the national guard. Oh my, this is worrisome.

[Nakia]

Oh dear, now I am worried that I will lose all my friends who did not back the game will turn against me, hate me.   Twitter will be awash with tags crying about the injustice of it all.  Obsidian will fall into Oblivion and the gaming world will be left to ...hmm maybe I should not complete that sentence.

 

All this because Backers got a thank you gift which I am sure will not have that much of an effect on the game.  After all we didn't back the game because we thought it would be a cake walk but because it promised to be difficult, challenging and intriguing.  .

[Luckmann]

 

 

The Kickstarter item is not the same as the pre-order items.

 

We haven't revealed the Kickstarter item as of yet.

Well dang, I guess that's that, then.

 

 

The big question now seems to me:

Does that mean you're gonna pirate it now?

 

Of course not.

 

But if I were, do you really think I'd be dumb enough to admit to it on a board that'd ban me for confessing to it, no matter the ethical implications (or lack thereof)?

 

There's a possible argument that the by far most reasonable thing to do in this situation would probably be to hold off pre-ordering, wait to see if there's a legal solution to the problem, or extralegal if necessary, and then if so, buy the game at that point but only play the supposedly pirated copy in order to get the full game, or bar those options, simply pass on the game, at least until such a time at which it'd be possible to get the whole thing. But even then, with a legal copy in one hand, a pirated one in the other would still be considered illegal, and to some, strangely, immoral.

 

But again, at this point, any such argument would be purely academic. What I meant with the "Well dang ..." was that for now, I'm passing on getting the game, and a general expression of.. I don't know.. sadness feels a bit over-the-top. Disappointment, I guess? A big, fat "meh"? Sufficient to say, no, I'm not going to pirate the game, but for now, I'm also not getting it, no matter how much I look forward to the game in general (because it simply looks amazing).

 

And again, I propose locking this, because the original question has been answered, and I don't see it really going anywhere productive.

[Luridis]

If I can't have all the stuffs... I must piwate! Evwyone will piwate if they can't have stuffs! The one I can buys doesn't haves a pet wienerdog! I wanna wienerdog!

 

Sounds more like you're looking for an excuse to not pay for something. I could be wrong, but I don't go robbing banks because someone received a better interest rate than me, or because they got a neat pen and I didn't. Either not ripping people off for their work is important to you, or it's not... and I don't think it is. You know why?

 

If the lack of x item is, in itself, that big a deal and you really don't want to pirate the game you could buy the game, and then pirate the backer version. That way, they still get paid.

 

Note: I'm not endorsing piracy here. I'm saying that if he's really that twisted up over an exclusive item and really does not want to steal, there is a way, even if it's not entirely ideal, or legal.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Luridis

[Luckmann]

[...]

 

If the lack of x item is, in itself, that big a deal and you really don't want to pirate the game you could buy the game, and then pirate the backer version. That way, they still get paid.

 

[...]

Oh god, it's almost like that's exactly what I said there could be a good argument for to do if possible, two hours before your condescending reply!

 

It's almost as if you almost but not really at all read the posts in the thread to understand someone's position before firing at the legion of strawmens and charged the windmills.

 

What a time to be alive.

 

What a time.

[Luridis]

 

[...]

 

If the lack of x item is, in itself, that big a deal and you really don't want to pirate the game you could buy the game, and then pirate the backer version. That way, they still get paid.

 

[...]

Oh god, it's almost like that's exactly what I said there could be a good argument for to do if possible, two hours before your condescending reply!

 

It's almost as if you almost but not really at all read the posts in the thread to understand someone's position before firing at the legion of strawmens and charged the windmills.

 

What a time to be alive.

 

What a time.

 

 

1. It was a response to your first post. For reasons stated below, I didn't care to read further before voicing my own opinion. And, as this is a discussion forum, I am entitled to do so.

 

2. I was being condescending, and deliberately so. If a starving man steals a loaf of bread, I am inclined to not look so harshly on it. When a person of means starts spouting justifications for stealing non-necessities, I personally find it deplorable. We are talking about a non-existent conceptual good, hardly a necessity.

 

3. The world frustrates me too. Especially so when I see someone calling my arguments "straw men" in the face of their own ridiculous justifications for thievery. We're talking about a single player game with a pet platypus or something.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Luridis

[ISC]

...must resist urge to correct people on off topic matters.. 

[Luckmann]

 

 

[...]

 

If the lack of x item is, in itself, that big a deal and you really don't want to pirate the game you could buy the game, and then pirate the backer version. That way, they still get paid.

 

[...]

Oh god, it's almost like that's exactly what I said there could be a good argument for to do if possible, two hours before your condescending reply!

 

It's almost as if you almost but not really at all read the posts in the thread to understand someone's position before firing at the legion of strawmens and charged the windmills.

 

What a time to be alive.

 

What a time.

 

 

1. It was a response to your first post. For reasons stated below, I didn't care to read further before voicing my own opinion. And, as this is a discussion forum, I am entitled to do so.

 

2. I was being condescending, and deliberately so. If a starving man steals a loaf of bread, I am inclined to not look so harshly on it. When a person of means starts spouting justifications for stealing non-necessities, I personally find it deplorable. We are talking about a non-existent conceptual good, hardly a necessity.

 

3. The world frustrates me too. Especially so when I see someone calling my arguments "straw men" in the face of their own ridiculous justifications for thievery. We're talking about a single player game with a pet platypus or something.

 

 

"This is a discussion forum, so it is my right ignore the discussion, and be condescending. One of my favourite passtimes is to start needless flamewars based on baseless preconception. I believe I am entitled to do so."

 

Fair enough.

 

Also, being called "a person of means" is heart-warming. I do believe you are projecting, though.

 

...must resist urge to correct people on off topic matters..

I tried so hard. I swear I tried so hard. Q_Q Edited December 26, 2014 by Luckmann

[Luridis]

 

 

 

[...]

 

If the lack of x item is, in itself, that big a deal and you really don't want to pirate the game you could buy the game, and then pirate the backer version. That way, they still get paid.

 

[...]

Oh god, it's almost like that's exactly what I said there could be a good argument for to do if possible, two hours before your condescending reply!

 

It's almost as if you almost but not really at all read the posts in the thread to understand someone's position before firing at the legion of strawmens and charged the windmills.

 

What a time to be alive.

 

What a time.

 

 

1. It was a response to your first post. For reasons stated below, I didn't care to read further before voicing my own opinion. And, as this is a discussion forum, I am entitled to do so.

 

2. I was being condescending, and deliberately so. If a starving man steals a loaf of bread, I am inclined to not look so harshly on it. When a person of means starts spouting justifications for stealing non-necessities, I personally find it deplorable. We are talking about a non-existent conceptual good, hardly a necessity.

 

3. The world frustrates me too. Especially so when I see someone calling my arguments "straw men" in the face of their own ridiculous justifications for thievery. We're talking about a single player game with a pet platypus or something.

 

 

"This is a discussion forum, so it is my right ignore the discussion, and be condescending. One of my favourite passtimes is to start needless flamewars based on baseless preconception. I believe I am entitled to do so."

 

Fair enough.

 

Also, being called "a person of means" is heart-warming. I do believe you are projecting, though.

 

...must resist urge to correct people on off topic matters..

I tried so hard. I swear I tried so hard. Q_Q

 

 

Not trying to start a flame war, I'm saying taking this sort of thing without paying is deplorable.

 

I've seen all the justifications for piracy before, and find them wanting. I even went back after the fact and read the terrible analogy by catarak about copying a rug in 1250something. And, yes it's terrible... Because he conveniently says "assemble" another rug in likeness. Assemble... that's the whole point.

 

Games have value because people put tons of work into making them, thousands and thousands of hours. Just because duplication is trivial doesn't mean making a copy doesn't deplete value. And, just because the game is already developed, doesn't mean you aren't taking from the people that make it. Things like employee retention for new projects, employee benefits and quality / quantity of development tools and software are based on on-going revenue.

 

So, call it what you want, justify it however you like... You are taking something that took real work to produce and not offering something in return, that IS the bottom line, no matter what nonsense justification you concoct.

[Lord Wafflebum]

...must resist urge to correct people on off topic matters.. 

I feel your pain, my friend. 

[Quadrone]

 

 

 

The Kickstarter item is not the same as the pre-order items.

 

We haven't revealed the Kickstarter item as of yet.

Well dang, I guess that's that, then.

 

 

The big question now seems to me:

Does that mean you're gonna pirate it now?

 

Of course not.

 

But if I were, do you really think I'd be dumb enough to admit to it on a board that'd ban me for confessing to it, no matter the ethical implications (or lack thereof)?

 

Meh, was worth a shot...

 

Personally I think this is quite petty and the bigger slight would be to give everybody access to the Backer exclusive item than just the backers.

One party paid money years in advance for the development of the game the other did diddly and now comes in when everything looks fine.

Sure some will still take that as an excuse, but those that do were either looking for one anyway or have some sort of OCD.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Quadrone

[constantine]

To get back on the bonus items,

 

Is the Pledge of Gaun Ring an 'easter egg', much as is the space piglet ? 'Cause nothing comes in mind about a Gaun item in the BG games.

[Katarack21]

 

 

 

 

[...]

 

If the lack of x item is, in itself, that big a deal and you really don't want to pirate the game you could buy the game, and then pirate the backer version. That way, they still get paid.

 

[...]

Oh god, it's almost like that's exactly what I said there could be a good argument for to do if possible, two hours before your condescending reply!

 

It's almost as if you almost but not really at all read the posts in the thread to understand someone's position before firing at the legion of strawmens and charged the windmills.

 

What a time to be alive.

 

What a time.

 

 

1. It was a response to your first post. For reasons stated below, I didn't care to read further before voicing my own opinion. And, as this is a discussion forum, I am entitled to do so.

 

2. I was being condescending, and deliberately so. If a starving man steals a loaf of bread, I am inclined to not look so harshly on it. When a person of means starts spouting justifications for stealing non-necessities, I personally find it deplorable. We are talking about a non-existent conceptual good, hardly a necessity.

 

3. The world frustrates me too. Especially so when I see someone calling my arguments "straw men" in the face of their own ridiculous justifications for thievery. We're talking about a single player game with a pet platypus or something.

 

 

"This is a discussion forum, so it is my right ignore the discussion, and be condescending. One of my favourite passtimes is to start needless flamewars based on baseless preconception. I believe I am entitled to do so."

 

Fair enough.

 

Also, being called "a person of means" is heart-warming. I do believe you are projecting, though.

 

...must resist urge to correct people on off topic matters..

I tried so hard. I swear I tried so hard. Q_Q

 

 

Not trying to start a flame war, I'm saying taking this sort of thing without paying is deplorable.

 

I've seen all the justifications for piracy before, and find them wanting. I even went back after the fact and read the terrible analogy by catarak about copying a rug in 1250something. And, yes it's terrible... Because he conveniently says "assemble" another rug in likeness. Assemble... that's the whole point.

 

Games have value because people put tons of work into making them, thousands and thousands of hours. Just because duplication is trivial doesn't mean making a copy doesn't deplete value. And, just because the game is already developed, doesn't mean you aren't taking from the people that make it. Things like employee retention for new projects, employee benefits and quality / quantity of development tools and software are based on on-going revenue.

 

So, call it what you want, justify it however you like... You are taking something that took real work to produce and not offering something in return, that IS the bottom line, no matter what nonsense justification you concoct.

 

1) It's Katarack. With a "K". Sheesh. There's also a "C" at the very end, but it's mostly that opening "K" that concerns me. It's a stylistic choice! That "K" is important.

 

2) That wasn't a justification for piracy, it was an example about how piracy can only be committed in a society with a certain level of technology. In that example what actually happened would be considered copyright infringement, but only if I deliberately sold the rug in such a way as to cause confusion with the original product. It would not be piracy, and it was not a justification of piracy. This is why I mentioned corn flakes. You know how there's 35 different brands of corn flakes in your supermarket? Dr. Kellog created it. He literally invented corn flakes. All the others are copies. What I'm saying is, copyright infringement is much more complicated than just "duplication", and piracy is only a subset of copyright infringement.

 

3) It's very clear that you barely bother reading the posts before you comment on them. This is your right; you can do what you wish. It does not help you to contribute to the conversation, and you should expect to have this pointed out as a flaw from time to time.

 

4) Talk to me. Don't denigrate and insult my post to others, do it to me. That's very rude.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Katarack21

[Luckmann]

Meh, was worth a shot...

 

Personally I think this is quite petty and the bigger slight would be to give everybody access to the Backer exclusive item than just the backers.

One party paid money years in advance for the development of the game the other did diddly and now comes in when everything looks fine.

Sure some will still take that as an excuse, but those that do were either looking for one anyway or have some sort of OCD.

Absolutely no offense intended, but just to be clear here, I've been a member more than two years longer than you, and the vast majority of my posts have been (was) in the Project Eternity section. The only reason I (speaking of me personally) couldn't contribute to the Kickstarter was a matter of wealth (or rather, lack thereof). I'm not exactly someone that "... now comes in when everything looks fine".

 

And I maintained from the beginning that unique in-game items that create a clique of the privilieged was a bad idea.

 

I fully confess to the "some sort of OCD", though. Generally speaking, calling people mentally ill is frowned upon and I have no doubt it was intended as an insult, but ultimately, I realize that the vast majority - especially those that it doesn't affect in any way - of the player base couldn't care less about aspects like this, but to me and many others it's incredibly grating.

 

[...] 

 

So, call it what you want, justify it however you like... You are taking something that took real work to produce and not offering something in return, that IS the bottom line, no matter what nonsense justification you concoct.

Now you're just being straight-up belligerent. I realize that you somehow see it as you being entitled to completely disregard what others are saying and attack strawmen that you build up all around them, but you can't expect people to take you seriously when you do. You may ignore earlier posts, but to do so and then claim malice on part of another is completely ridiculous.

 

You're flat-out accusing someone else of a crime, attacking their character and insulting them, despite said someone (me) making their stance clear on the matter. I'm not taking anything from anyone, no matter what kind of nonsense windmill you concoct.

 

[...]

 

2) That wasn't a justification for piracy, it was an example about how piracy can only be committed in a society with a certain level of technology. In that example what actually happened would be considered copyright infringement, but only if I deliberately sold the rug in such a way as to cause confusion with the original product. It would not be piracy, and it was not a justification of piracy.

 

[...]

I think it's been made abundantly clear that to some people, understanding an issue equates to condoning, supporting and attempting to justify it.

 

To get back on the bonus items,

 

Is the Pledge of Gaun Ring an 'easter egg', much as is the space piglet ? 'Cause nothing comes in mind about a Gaun item in the BG games.

I've been wondering the same myself, actually. I got the suspicion that the Pre-Order Items and the Kickstarter Item being the same due to the ring, actually, since backers "pledged".

 

Second thought was that it could be a reference to the Ring of Gaxx in Baldur's Gate 2, but I honestly have no idea where that thought came from, because it's flimsy as all hell.

 

Third - and this is a long shot - is that Gaun, as the present participle of gae, a Scot word for "go", and assuming gaelic influences over the in-universe Aedyr, essentially brings us to something tentatively linguistically associated with "pledge to go" or "pledge to going"; Kickstarter, or Pre-Order, as in pledging to the beginning, or to start, to go.

 

But.. uh.. yeah, that doesn't sound very plausible, does it?

 

For reference, here's the description of it: "This item gives the ability to shield yourself from the perils that roam the world of Eora. A mystical ring with interlocking sickles that brings life where death looms. Gaun's favored implement, symbolic of the cycle of the harvest he oversees. Like its namesake, it is known to provide powerful support to those in need of defense."

 

Based on that, Gaun might simply be a diety in the world, and the ring itself is simply a reference to Kickstarter and the backers supporting the game; brings life where death blooms, the interlocking sickles representing the backers that now reap the fields, i.e. the finished game. The backers embodied with the diety of Gaun (assuming it's a diety), providing powerful support to those in need of defense - Obsidian and Pillars of Eternity itself.

 

Just some thoughts.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Luckmann

[Luridis]

 

1) It's Katarack. With a "K". Sheesh. There's also a "C" at the very end, but it's mostly that opening "K" that concerns me. It's a stylistic choice! That "K" is important.

 

2) That wasn't a justification for piracy, it was an example about how piracy can only be committed in a society with a certain level of technology. In that example what actually happened would be considered copyright infringement, but only if I deliberately sold the rug in such a way as to cause confusion with the original product. It would not be piracy, and it was not a justification of piracy.

 

3) It's very clear that you barely bother reading the posts before you comment on them. This is your right; you can do what you wish. It does not help you to contribute to the conversation, and you should expect to have this pointed out as a flaw from time to time.

 

4) Talk to me. Don't denigrate and insult my post to others, do it to me. That's very rude.

 

 

1 - Ooops, my bad. I honestly just got the letters mixed up.

 

2 - I was focusing on that you would need to do work, to duplicate the rug. Piracy as it exists today would not be so trivial then.

 

3 - You're making an assumption, I'll leave it at that. Unless, you have some physical proof? No, okay then.

 

4 - Denigrate and insult your post, and not at you. I shall have to break this one down.

 

Examines his post to see where he called Katarack's post any of these: poopy pants, dirty dog, booty sniffer or rotten egg.

 

Sorry, I just don't see anywhere that I insulted your post.

 

Examines his post for denigration and sees, "terrible analogy".

 

Okay, while that's certainly not speaking highly of it, I don't see it as the same as saying something like, "That's the stupidest and most useless post of all time!" So, I'm not entirely sure that qualifies as denigration.

 

Talk to you? We're not sitting at a table where I can turn and look at your face when I respond. I did not, after all, PM my response to Luckmann, I did post it here, where anyone can read it, even the Google crawler. I hardly think that qualifies as talking behind your back.

 

Rude? Well touche friend, I think you're rude. You come back and lash out about all sorts of things at me and if you'll examine my post carefully. I never called anyone a name, never belittled them personally. I spoke my piece and what did I get? Yet another netnilly flying off the handle because I don't agree with him or her. Well, that's just too bad, I'm afraid you're going to have to go through life dealing with people who don't agree with you. That's just how the world works.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Luridis

[Lord Wafflebum]

Ugh.

 

@Any Mod:

Can this thread please be locked? It's become so bad and makes me so angry I can't stop reading it. Besides, it is way too off topic and is trying to justify piracy which has to be against some sort of rule (maybe just decency?).

[Katarack21]

I agree the thread should be locked. But nobody is justifying piracy. It's been discussed in detail, but nobody in this thread has said "Piracy is morally justified and perfectly okay for people to commit" nor implied that as being true.