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Thought it'd be fun to discuss some future ideas of Pillars of Eternity, in expansions or even mod viability.

 

Ritualist: They are essentially weak, pansy Wizards but with demonic summoning and buffs, they take forever to do anything cast anything on their own, but if you have 2 or 3 Ritualists, their spells will cast faster, and naturally do more damage, than a single Wizard in a party. Their main part is their summoning.

The price for demonic summoning is more than simply channeling some energy, there is a blood price, and the proper words, demonic demands, that has to be fulfilled such as trophies, sacrifices. To precure the right circumstances, the Ritualist must tread carefully, and thus ward the summoning area to defend themselves from the most nastiest of demonic bargaining. Thus, the more they are, the faster they can finish dealing with all the routine work (drawing circles, posture, domestication, focus, concentration etc. etc. resisting a demon and at the same time appeasing to it is busy work).

If two Ritualists targets the same enemy with the same spell, they will cast a stronger version of the spell and whenever they chant a spell cast at the same time, they will chant faster as well.

Together they resist demonic affliction as well, and can control it better. A single Ritualist controlling a Bull Demon early in the game might create a most unfortunate situation when the bandits are gone from its 9001 power that now sinks its teeth into its summoner. Two Ritualists could maintain control over it with ease.

Resource:
- Demonic Resistance: Ritualists have a 3/3 Per Encounter Resource, each Demon costs an amount of Resistance. Some Demons might cost 1 or 2 Resistance, others 9 or even 12. Thus, 3 Ritualists would have 9/9 in this resource. If number is greater, all Demons summoned go on a rampage or Unsummons based on their own strength and dice roll check.

Example:
1 Ritualist, summons 2 Lesser Familiars with a cost of 4. The Ritualist now has -1 Resistance, and thus, the Demons get stronger. For each -1 the Ritualist have, the demons get even stronger, and you also lose control of them all. Meaning if you have 1 Ritualist summoning 7 Lesser Familiars, you'd have -11 Resistance, you'd have 7 pissed off, strengthened, hungry Demons after you. The Demons grow stronger the Weaker the Ritualist gets. With 2 Ritualists, you'd have 6/6, and could control 3 Weak Familiars (that are not as strong as 7 buffed up and angry -11 Familiars, obviously).

Demons are both the Ritualists strongest weapon, and their biggest weakness.

However, there are abilities such as "Unsummon" or "Hold Demon" as well, to be able to run away. Demons summoned could be permanent, and with this expansion/mod/sequel/future idea could be a combined hidden storyline (Populate the world with demons to wreak chaos everywhere in the world, and the world, NPC's, everyone, would fight back). You could summon demons into the world, which would unlock a new path, become a demonic lord over the lands of the Palatinate, or thwart a demonic plot? (Questline)

Spells
- Summon Lesser Familiar (In hindsight: Example ability throughout the post)
The Ritualist summons a small demon, that serves excellently as a scout, or as an annoyance to target opponents. They reduce accuracy of anyone they attack, stackable, but hardly deals any damage - Costs 2 per Familiar

- Unsummon (Core Ability)
A basic spell that probably every Ritualist holds dear and thankful for. Many are experienced with rampaging demons, or a destroyed kitchen from too many small familiars. "Unsummon" allows the Ritualist, well, unsummon Demons up to -2. Upgradeable.

- Summon Demon (Core Ability)
A muscular, humanoid sized, strong naked dumb demon. A warrior. Upgradeable through Talents to give armor, weapon, strength. The more attire the demon gets, the more it costs. Some upgrades could even entail size of the Demon or mutations, making the Demon transform. The Demon is a mold, the upgrades the figure //Strategically, do you have many 5-6 Demons with low to mid gear, or 2 elite demons? A choice left up to the Player, nonetheless. This summoning can be copied, and named. Allowing the Ritualist to summon different types of demons.

Example:

- Summon Demonic Warrior
A Demon with a sword and shield, intended for close combat.

- Summon Demonic Archer
A Demon with a bow, intended for distanced combat.

- Summon Demonic Ogre
A larger Demon, golem-like, destructive but costly.

- Memory Chant
Pulling out from their library of knowledge inside their minds, the Ritualist increases the rate of their lips, their minds, concentrating with all their might to chant and ritualize the area of summoning. Their recoverary rate decreases greatly when summoning per Ritualist.

- Demonic Affliction
The Ritualist opens an eerie window through time and space, a phone call to the demonic plane, in target area of effect. In this zone, any demon currently summoned will go on a rampage and gain a buff, as well as Resistance would cost +1 more, as the smell and hunger is altered in this plane. After a Demonic Affliction has been cast, any Demon during encounter will cost more Resistance and be stronger (//You essentially give some bloodthirsty demons a wiff of some tasty souls to bloody, altered and modified to tempt the demons, baiting, teasing).

- Summon Karaz'Gul
Karaz'Gul is a captured demon, held in a flask. This demon is immensely powerful. Many naive Ritualists have tried to maintain his power time and time again, only to find a bitter end and sub-sequentally unleashing his power on the world. Karaz'Gul has a passive which randomly changes the Ritualist's Resistance over the course of an encounter, with a range of 12-20. Player can not control Karaz'Gul, but his AI will go for the enemies. Karaz'Gul is immune to "Unsummon" and must be trapped in a bottle (Item) by chanting a really slow spell (So you have to hold him off for a duration of time).

Some math: A single Ritualist have 3/3
3x3=9/9
4x3=12/12
5x3=15/15
6x3=18/18

Summoning Karaz'Gul most safely would require 6 Ritualists in the party (Full), or a more daring approach at 4 Ritualists. Whilst this summon is intended to be super strong. Karaz'Gul is a sentient Demon, and can be interesting and interactive in the Plot, or even during/after in combat.

- Sacrifice Ritualist (Quest Spell)
This Spell uses the Ritualist as a conduit for a demonic summoning, and will summon a powerful demon to replace the Ritualist in the party (Permanent Companion). The Demon summoned is a melee NIP (Non-important) Demon, with the strength of a "Hero" or "Class". Can be named and levels up like a Class, with Demonic Spells. Though, depending on if the Player is a Ritualist himself, he may sacrifice himself to summon an alternate story-Demon.

- Succumb to Darkness (Quest Spell)
The Ritualist lets himself be possessed by Demons, to become a Demi-Demon, with new skills and powers, growing horns and fiery eyes (Unlockable Story Class)

-----------------------------------

These are the only spells I could think of, but I'm sure if I gave it some more thought I'd think of way more. Also, Summon Lesser Familiar and Summon Demon could be the same. In fact, "Summon Demon" could be it's one and only summoning spell, and giving it the mechanic to upgrade the Demon Summoning Spell through Talents.

Instead of gaining the option to pick a Spell (like the Wizard, Chanter, Cipher) at Level Up, the Ritualist could instead gain options to upgrade "Summon Demon". The rest of the spells would be for manipulating the demons, or freaking out enemies.

The Ritualist relies heavily on each other, to gain the help from demons, compared to a standard party with Fighter, DPS, Tank, Ranged, Mage, Support etc. And it also can be inserted into a standard build. For instance, the Player having a Fighter, Rogue, Paladin, Priest, Ritualist, Ritualist. Or even have a build of 6 Ritualists, and rely 100% on the demons.

Ritualists are physically weak, but can 

What do you think?

Edited by Osvir
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Well, perhaps not demons, but something from another plane, and requiring several of the same Class to summon.

Like having 2 Wizards to cast spells, but these are Summoners, writing circles on the ground, placing candles and stuff, chanting prose. Consider any "Demonic" or "Demon" as placeholder. It's the functionality of the Class I am curious about, Cultist & Co-Operative & Synched Summoners.

I don't know what you're trying to imply with the rest of the comment, but for some reason I feel a personal hostile undertone in it quite directed towards me. Want to explain/vent? (PM) If not, then *shrug* but I guess I'm kind of curious and an explanation would be nice, because I don't understand the underlying meaning, so it'd be appreciated with a PM but I wouldn't be bothered if you choose not to :)

Edited by Osvir
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Honestly, the more variety and complexity there is in each class the better. Combat in this game does not interest me in the slightest at the moment.

 

Demonic, no thanks.

 

Muslims in Stockholm have gotten to your head yet?

 

What about Christians? Jews, Christians, Muslims... they're all the same.

 

Also, that was hilarious for some reason.

Edited by Marcvs Caesar
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Jews and christians are people of a mainly spiritual faith, muslims are people of mainly worldly faith. Which means it is not a faith at all, its a cult. Like the cults mentioned above.

 

I dont want to play ingame as a cultist, I want them to be enemies whom I can slaughter.

Edited by Sheikh
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I'm an atheist so... devout Christians, Muslims, Jews would probably think I am Satan xD but I do believe the world would do better if it was a global, human, settlement. Instead of separating us like differently colored cattle and teaching some of the cattle from one color that the other color of cattle is somehow worse in some way *shrug* it's stupid, whatever, can't the world become Terra and we all can call ourselves Terran already???

They'd be fitting enemies too of course! These "Creature" Summoners, of course. The magic they resort to should be strictly forbidden in the world, and considered evil by all except those already inherently evil. Of course, the Player character/party and some rare or even singular Ritualists could be the exceptions and could use it "for good" (dialogue/narrative etc. etc.), but still be branded an evil s.o.b. by the rest of the world (even if the character is good and pure, merely using the "demonic" magic makes the character resented).

Edited by Osvir
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I'm an atheist so... devout Christians, Muslims, Jews would probably think I am Satan xD but I do believe the world would do better if it was a global, human, settlement. Instead of separating us like differently colored cattle and teaching some of the cattle from one color that the other color of cattle is somehow worse in some way *shrug* it's stupid, whatever, can't the world become Terra and we all can call ourselves Terran already???

 

With the recent rise of nationalism in the world, particularly in Europe, that seems to be unlikely to happen in the near future... if ever.

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Oh it'll happen, I have faith. But not during my liftetime or any of ours. Maybe in 500-600 years, maybe. I think regardless, it's going to happen either forcefully, violently, or peacefully. Either everyone gets their asses out the gutter, and stands together, or a militaric force in the world will take over, or corporations eventually join together and buys the entire world. I wasn't saying that just because the world becomes "Global" that it's going to be a Democracy... I believe it will be a Dictating Senate. Either it will be cruel, or it will be benevolant, I won't be around to see it, unless I become a tormented and immortal ghost :p

Can't Nationalism be applied to the Planet? One Nation of... Equal Humans! :o Imagine (I'm a dreamer)

EDIT: OH! And naturally! When we become Terran, we'd have 40K Space Suits too, of course, like, isn't that the Meaning of Life? Space Marine suits! We don't even need enemies, just the suits would suffice! xD

Anyways, this topic is derailing, if anyone wants to continue on this topic, Group PM (if that's possible) or a new thread in Way Off Topic.

Curious to hear more input on the OP too.

Edited by Osvir
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It already has happened. We need to segregate people based on real concepts such as religion and personality (which is tied to genetics), not imaginary concepts like race. The muslims religion and genetically derived personality (dont like to work) will be their undoing, not their race. And of course we need to use real systems to discriminate against people such as natural selection (you dont work, you die, no welfare), not artificial government systems like what the Nazis used. That is what is really going to work.

 

Sure, I made a topic if you wanted to continue it: Off topic

Edited by Sheikh
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Oh well, I'll just consider these Globalist or Internationalism discussion ITT as inspiration I suppose then, lore-fluff  :p Strength in Numbers, Strength in "Demonic" (or other summoned/manifested/materialized creature). Some form of ideology would be tied to "Ritualism" of this degree after all, in a fantasy setting.

Edited by Osvir
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It's the mechanical concept in battle that I find cool, having 2-3 robed dudes on the battlefield, chanting in unison in a circle to summon a creature to protect them (and therein lies their strength). Individually they are weak, but together their magic is strong :)

The creatures summoned are the Ritualists defense and offense.

EDIT: Azir, League of Legends. And before any literal misunderstanding, this video represents a concept, that the Champion does near 0 damage, it's the minions that matter. It's also one of my favorite champions :D what I'm saying is that, instead of having a single character summoning a creature, there'd be bonus effects if more than one helped out with summoning.

Demon's sprung to mind because "Devils" strike a hard bargain, and I forgot to mention in the OP. Every Summoning would cost a Health Price. So, having more than 1 Ritualist in the Party would be beneficial to this resource... as a single Ritualist could lose a lot of blood.

Edited by Osvir
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It's the mechanical concept in battle that I find cool, having 2-3 robed dudes on the battlefield, chanting in unison in a circle to summon a creature to protect them (and therein lies their strength). Individually they are weak, but together their magic is strong :)

 

The creatures summoned are the Ritualists defense and offense.

 

To me it seems more suitable for an NPC class. Requiring 2-3 party members devoted to casting a lengthy ritual means that the remainder of the party spend their time trying to prevent the event from being disrupted. Presumably the summoned creature will be more powerful than the 2-3 party members combined could be, so this is mostly useful against boss monsters. Thus you have 3-4 party members devoted to holding off the strongest encounters for a significant period, when normally you'd need all six.

 

What's with all the off-topic religious discussion? It belongs in another thread.

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What's with all the off-topic religious discussion? It belongs in another thread.

That's what I also said, but thought "Oh might as well" when it wasn't adhered to.

 

@Post: Well yes, the summonings would be as strong as the 2-3 party members. The Ritualists themselves would be mostly static objects. In essence, the Class could be one of the minions instead and no Ritualist would be needed, mechanically. I just thought it'd be more lore interesting if you were a Summoner Class instead of Minion/Demon Class.

 

So, when you have no summons, a party with 3 Ritualists and 3 standard Classes would essentially be a group of 3 characters running around, and when battle begins, they'd potentially get the power of 6-7 characters. A Group of 4 Ritualists, even 7-8 characters. 6 Ritualists, a group of 10 characters (In Strength, but not perhaps in "Units" or amount, the Karaz'Gul example strong summon could perhaps represent the strength of 7-8 characters on its own).

 

EDIT: Very useful against bosses, obviously, but the Resource management is the key element, and loosing control of it. Do you risk that super powerful demon against a powerful boss, and you might end up fighting the Demon instead? Your strongest weapon may become your weakest point.

Edited by Osvir
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A thought occurred: allow NPC summoners to be recruited to your stronghold and employ them in creating a binding scroll that can summon powerful critters at a time of great need. You may assist them in this goal by retrieving ancient lore and potent artifacts. You might even assume some risk in taking this path, as the summoners may fail to control the critters, who run amuck in your stronghold, requiring you to return and clean up the mess.

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A thought occured based on your occurance of a thought:

Could these NPC summoners summon the Player as well eventually, if they could be upgradeable/strengthened? And teleport them widely across the world?

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Sheikh, I'm not sure what the point of your other thread regarding Muslims is, but you seem to hold rather unhealthy views towards them and to be inclined to disparage them as a group. As such I would like to ask you to be more cautious with your comments in the future, for civility' sake.

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It already has happened. We need to segregate people based on real concepts such as religion and personality (which is tied to genetics), not imaginary concepts like race. The muslims religion and genetically derived personality (dont like to work) will be their undoing, not their race. And of course we need to use real systems to discriminate against people such as natural selection (you dont work, you die, no welfare), not artificial government systems like what the Nazis used. That is what is really going to work.

 

Sure, I made a topic if you wanted to continue it: Off topic

In the future, let's please leave out ethic/religious group debates from the game suggestion/idea threads. It tends to be off-topic and may lead to thread pruning.
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“Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts
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It already has happened. We need to segregate people based on real concepts such as religion and personality (which is tied to genetics), not imaginary concepts like race. The muslims religion and genetically derived personality (dont like to work) will be their undoing, not their race. And of course we need to use real systems to discriminate against people such as natural selection (you dont work, you die, no welfare), not artificial government systems like what the Nazis used. That is what is really going to work.

 

Sure, I made a topic if you wanted to continue it: Off topic

In the future, let's please leave out ethic/religious group debates from the game suggestion/idea threads. It tends to be off-topic and may lead to thread pruning.

 

It was offtopic, but it was thread developing. High five!

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As an enem design it could be cool, but I'm not that for having more than one of each class in my party, so for me this would feel wrong :p

I need my party to be as diverse as possible, and I feel that is also one of the mayor parts of these kind of games, just running aroun with 4 cultists would feel silly, I'm with the guy who said that he'd rather want to kill them.

 

I'm not against demons though, or summoners, or having cultists that casts spells together as enemies, it sounds fun. Stop them or  they'll blow open your castle wall!

He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster . . .

when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you

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It's the dynamic in the class that is the diversity. You have 3 of the same class early game, then mid game maybe 2, and late game maybe 1.

So in the end, the Class would be functional on its own, which would allow for a standard build with it (every class different in party) or you could continue with more than 1 if you want to (summon more demons/monsters/beings than you can on your own, and stronger versions too), and could summon creatures on its own. 

The "hook" would simply be that it's a class that is stronger when there's more of it. It'd still be able to summon on its own in early game and mid game, but it would be most "Powerful" with more than 1, but at the same time by being more "Powerful" you also compromise the group. I think that should be a fair balancing methodic.

EDIT: Just like having 2 Rangers with 2 different animal companions could be beneficial to the party composition you want to build, 2 Ritualists would be balanced to be as well. 2 Fighters (1 Tank, 1 DPS, or 2 Tanks) is the same. Or 2 Wizards in the party with different Spells (One might have more Damage Spells, Glass Cannon, another Wizard more De-Buffing, Blinding, Fear and similar spells) etc.

Edited by Osvir
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  • 2 months later...

I say nay to this idea. Chanters are already a class focused on summoning, and the idea that ritualists become more effective the more of them you have basically means you would have to have at least three to make them any good. Balancing them would be a nightmare too.

"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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Hmmmm... you know, it's a nice idea, but it doesn't quite fit PoE. That hook doesn't really work. You only have a limited amount of party member slots and most people want to try as many classes as possible (even in IWD, where you have 6 slots, I sometimes felt like I didn't have space for all the characters I wanted) Asking a player to make two of the same doesn't seem right. Also, what about little encounters? It seems overly dramatic and time-consuming to summon demons to deal with some beetles.

 

Finally, I'm sure all these demons would have a big impact on the lore.

 

I would totally play a separate game with this concept though. A game where you are a summoner and you have a vast libary where you can research various demons and rituals etc.

Edited by Heijoushin
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Hmmmm... you know, it's a nice idea, but it doesn't quite fit PoE. That hook doesn't really work. You only have a limited amount of party member slots and most people want to try as many classes as possible (even in IWD, where you have 6 slots, I sometimes felt like I didn't have space for all the characters I wanted) Asking a player to make two of the same doesn't seem right. Also, what about little encounters? It seems overly dramatic and time-consuming to summon demons to deal with some beetles.

 

I've made single Class parties in PoE Beta. 6 Chanters, 6 Rogues, 6 Wizards, 6 Rangers (those I've tried with). Some with more success and patience, some with impatience and failure.

 

Making a party with 2 frontline Fighters, 2 Priests, 1 Wizard and 1 Ranger wouldn't be a disadvantageous party against the world. In BG I had 2 Fighters (MC & Khalid), Jaheira who i´s melee centered Fighter/Druid, and melee focused Minsc. 4 melee-similar and strong characters, handled mostly the same. In DA:O, 2 Fighters (MC & Alistair).

 

I wouldn't believe it is too uncommon either to be honest, to have 2 of a class in your party. 3 is a bit of a stretch but, with 2 Fighters and 1 Priest, having 3 artillery Wizards behind that taunt wall, could be devastating.

 

But you have a point with it being over-dramatic against, for example the beetles. But that would depend on how you play (6 Rangers against the beetles looks overly dramatic too btw). Would you put 6 Ritualists (Warlocks) in the party... or 2? Or 3? Or maybe just 1. You'd still be able to have a viable party with 1, but it would still be stronger with others of the same Class (faster summoning+casting speed).

 

Reading on on a couple posts later, I state that it doesn't have to be "demons" per say, but something otherwordly. Avatar summoning (like Ifrit, Shiva, Leviathan etc. in Final Fantasy, except, the Ritualists/Warlocks would summon Eora God avatars or become conduits themselves).

Edited by Osvir
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