Suggestions for PoE From here on in

[IndiraLightfoot]

This is a thread for giving suggestions to tweak, change or improve stuff that within reason can indeed be tweaked, changed or improved until the game will be released in spring 2015.

 

Therefore, I propose to set aside perhaps the biggest controversy in the beta forums, namely this:

 

 

 

 

"...add in the fun, intense combat and dungeon diving of Icewind Dale" -- I'd say it's pretty fair to state that this isn't the case at the moment. The fact that people find the current combat fun does not fulfill this promise, because they promised "the fun, intense combat ... of Icewind Dale." This is much more specific than just promising fun, intense combat. Those saying that it's okay that the combat feels more like DA combat or NWN2 combat are missing the point that while it may be fun for you, it's not acceptable in that it doesn't fulfill this specific promise.

 

In essence, plenty of backers - thousands of them - will interpret that Kickstarter like GrinningReaper659 did: PoE will have the combat of IWD.

As much as I'd love to have a new game made with that very combat, it isn't going to happen in PoE, and most likely not in its expansion either.

Also, if I play the devil's advocate for a sec, it only says "the intense combat of IWD", which certainly emphasizes the intensity of combat, and not the combat mechanics, per se. I and hordes of others will have to wait until a game with BG/IWD-like combat will appear - perhaps Serpent of the Staglands will be the first? 

 

Alright, onto the real business of this thread. Here's what I really would like to see in PoE before the game's released:

-Even more talents, for all kinds of classes - not just weapon stuff with Athletics -but rather more like Ancient Memory for Chanters. Don't be stingy, Josh. Pour it over us (especially since we won't get any multi-classing soon)

-Separate talents and skills OR keep the system, but let the old system with skills return and be the main skill hub

-Spend resources on making animations and feedback on disengagement attacks as clear as possible (Snuff out Sensuki's über-kiting too)

-Tone down the spell FX A LOT. Go over those that actually OTT, and make them sensible and functional and non-garish

-The sound FX are great, but try to give us a lot more music, including battle music, and just the same two or four tunes the entire game. WL2, I'm looking at you. It will be worth the effort. Perhaps Justin can remix some stuff, at least.

-Make sure that plenty of encounters have baddies that don't all gravitate towards the players attacking characters, that is, have baddies being ranged and staying at the back, have a few that will opt for certain spells and mixed tactics/combined arms

-Consider adding tiny combat xp to all baddies, or make bestiary xp a broader concept. I just played through the area under the ruins carefully, leaving those beetles at the far end, and I didn't get xp for two hours.

-Please fix the character creation screen so that I don't have to use scrolling to read the descriptions and benefits in the right big screen. Make it even bigger or something, but that's just annoying.

-When shopping, let us examine the items we want to buy easily, by a mere click, and give us all info, just like in any normal CRPG

-Make it so that baddies red marker circles and all the loot always is findable via mouse-over, and obviously, enemy circles need to be visible all the time (unless it's invisible or teleporting or something).

 

Which suggestions do you have for these last months of PoE iterations?

Edited November 28, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Starwars]

-Make proper transitions where you open the bloody door before "zoning" into the next area, pleeease. And get rid of the "fade to black" whenever you get close to an exit you clicked, leave the screen until you are literally at the exit and *then* have the player "zone" into the next area.

 

-Go back to the skillpoint system of yore (and make the point buy system like Bloodlines to avoid excessive clicking).

 

-Make the talent selection more manageable, don't just have one long-ass list that you have to scroll up and down.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Starwars

[IndiraLightfoot]

I forgot about them bleeding doors. I complained about them early on, and you are right, they work badly on transitions, but I just wanted it to add:

Make the hit boxes on doors and all transition triggers bigger. I hate that little icon circle. It's too small.

[Jon of the Wired]

Weird, I was just playing the latest beta the other day and thinking about how much I liked the zone transitions.Takes all kinds, I guess.

[Sensuki]

Make the hit boxes on doors and all transition triggers bigger. I hate that little icon circle. It's too small.

No

[YunikoYokai5]

Add more backgrounds or remove the double stats (there is at least two

+1 stealth & +1 athletics). I would like to see a survival and athletics one if there isn't one already.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Weird, I was just playing the latest beta the other day and thinking about how much I liked the zone transitions.Takes all kinds, I guess.

 

Let me tell you this: When you start your very first game, even, and fade into the area next to Medreth, you will actually see your party for a sec (They fade in, you almost ready to move, then they fade out), and you get on with the character creation. Something is wonky about it all.

[mstark]

-Make the talent selection more manageable, don't just have one long-ass list that you have to scroll up and down.

This one is huge in my book. Make it a grid, and sort them by type using easily glance-able headlines. Allow us to minimize headlines we're not interested in for that particular character. Possibly give us custom options for sorting them, like by which skill point they are associated with, or class recommendations.

[Hormalakh]

Get rid of the engagement mechanic. It's too cheesy and broken. Stop wasting time with it.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Get rid of the engagement mechanic. It's too cheesy and broken. Stop wasting time with it.

Nope. Can't go there. Wrong thread!

[Hormalakh]

You can't tell me where I can and can't post. Disabling engagement is now my number 1 priority.

[Shevek]

Engagement is fine. They are working on adding better visual feedback to it and that will be huge. Game feels great now and will get better once they make things like engagement more visually obvious.

 

Already combat feels damn good and all it took was a few small tweaks. There is value in small purposeful changes. Large systems changes that entail ripping out systems would water down the games design and may lead to unforseen problems as a result.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Shevek

[Justinian]

I'm just going to keep harping on about visual clarity since this is an area I think is critical and should get high visibility on these forums (see what I did there?)

 

I've noticed that in effects heavy situations, not only does the visibility plummet, but the framerate does as well. Now it just so happens that the scroll speed of the camera is tied to the framerate. The net effect is just a visually indecipherable, stuttery, unresponsive mess during combat.

 

 

 

 

To kill two birds (performance and readability) with one stone, I believe a very different approach needs to be taken with effects. Instead of the current high fidelity, high realism approach, Obsidian need to go back to the drawing board and recreate these effects in a manner similar to Diablo 3. I.e. visually clean, cheap to render, yet still striking and beautiful. Note the excellent visual clarity despite much more going on than in the above screenshot:

 

Edited November 28, 2014 by Justinian

[IndiraLightfoot]

You can't tell me where I can and can't post. Disabling engagement is now my number 1 priority.

I know, and there are lots of people sharing your sentiment, but it ain't gonna happen, and like I said at the start of this thread: It's for suggestions that can be changed until the game is about to ship, and that is no longer one of them. Perhaps for the expansion, I have no idea (though, I doubt it).

[Hormalakh]

Gutting engagement is as easy as commenting out a few lines of code and implementing changes with that in mind. It's not so hard. Don't you worry little man.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Hormalakh: I'm well aware of that, but OE (Josh) are dead-set on it. I'm no fan of it (it's okay, if we get feedback on it - like AoO worked okay in NWN2), make no mistake about it, but this is a thread for realistic suggestions. If you have a bone to pick on that issue, there are plenty of threads dealing with it, but I tell you, your suggestion will fall on deaf ears.

Edited November 28, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Hormalakh]

With enough people clamoring for a real look into a clearly broken system, josh will have to take a second look and a closer look. People crapped their pants about wizards, etc and josh took time out to read their thoughts.

 

If you are not happy with the implementation, you need to voice your concern. Otherwise you are part of the problem.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Hormalakh

[IndiraLightfoot]

In a way, you are right about my being part of the problem, since I don't mind an Engagement mechanic - it at least makes some sense to me. It's just not worth fighting as much for as say, a better talent and skill system. If it matters a lot to you, keep up the fight, but...

 

Edited November 28, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Shevek]

Lol, there is no problem. These design goals were laid out forever ago. Some minor AI changes and some improved visual feedback and we are golden.

 

The devs already addressed their thoughts on engagement in the last update. They are going to improve visual feedback. Continuing rant at this point is meaningless since its obvious they will try that before anything else.

[Hormalakh]

Also, don't make it seem like this game is coming out tomorrow. There are literally months left in development.

 

I believe that they are wasting their energy and resources on patching a mechanic that is truly bad. If they are willing to look at other solutions or even no solution, that is money saved and spent towards more productive ventures, like fixing the visual disaster that Justinian complains about.

 

By spending time implementing AI, UI feedback, and testing this broken system, they are wasting time and money.

[Hormalakh]

You obviously haven't tried to break the engagement mechanic to see what a joke it really is.

 

A few lines of AI and some UI? You think it's that simple to fix a broken and unwieldy system? Stop being unrealistic. This mechanic will be the reason PoE's combat will suck.

[Shevek]

Well, one way to break combat in this game isnt that bad considering there was a multitude of ways to rest spam and trivialize combat in the IE games. Moreover, it seems like fixing one issue with a mechanic is a better solution than ripping out the mechanic entirely.

 

Be sensible, man.

[Captain Shrek]

I have a feeling that the combat is OKAY as it is, right now. It is not great, but is something we can all live with, from passive players like Shevek  to Active players like Sensuki . I will take this ooportunity to emphasize that that Carthage must be destroyed Enduarance, Graze and DT must be removed. Removing them is "simply commenting a few lines of code.

 

As for the OP, I thoroughly agree: Garish displays of lighting should be toned down to improve visibility in the game. I would rather have garish displays of visual decals and status seffects, but that is too late to add to the game.

[IndiraLightfoot]

 I will take this ooportunity to emphasize that that Carthage must be destroyed Enduarance, Graze and DT must be removed. Removing them is "simply commenting a few lines of code.

 

 

Haha! I wish, I wish!

 

However, I doubt something will happen to any of these "fun offenders".

[Sensuki]

I've modded it out Hormalakh and it feels a bit more like playing an Infinity Engine game. Unfortunately there's a vocal miniority on the boards at this present time that are NWN2 combat fanboys more than they are IE fanboys and there's a lot of storyfags that just don't care. But keep it up, it's up to us IE die hards to try and drown out their pathetic little voices.

 

I have a feeling that the combat is OKAY as it is, right now. It is not great, but is something we can all live with, from passive players like Shevek  to Active players like Sensuki

It's not okay, and do you really think that I am going to live with it ? Feel free to eat the bowl of turd handed to you and relunctantly ask for seconds, I'm ordering something else.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Sensuki