First Impressions (v364)

[Gairnulf]

BTW I just (re)discovered this thread: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66785-known-issues-list/?p=1493754

It does help some, but there isn't a detailed list of the changes to the game rules.

[Sensuki]

No that's a bug list thread, and it hasn't been updated for over a month.

[Gairnulf]

Well, there hasn't been a new version for over a month. They'll probably update it with the fixes done in 364

[YunikoYokai5]

How are people finding the AI pathfinding? I had someone comment on my overview video of the patch that they were worried about how fixated the AI became with a single character even if their threat level is minimal (as demonstrated by Sensuki in one of his Medreth's fights with a ranger's companion acting as bait). Not sure what patch that was but has there been any noticeable change in the pathing that people can see in this one? I ask those especially who have come across huge waves of foes.

[Sensuki]

Both Pathing and AI is a little bit better now, far from optimal but this is the first patch where pathing is not noticeably worse than the previous version.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Sensuki

[halethrain]

"Casual" player here.

 

Everyone, especially Sensuki, your opinions are just that: opinions. Stop bandying them around as facts and stop speaking for casual players as if we are all of the same mind. 

 

Also, "successor" and "feels" are highly subjective terms. The fact that none of you can agree on what does and doesn't make this game "feel" like IE should tell you exactly how impossible it will be for Obsidian to deliver on this promise.

[Sensuki]

Storyfag =/= casual player, if that was the term that sparked your reply. There are many hardcore storyfag RPGers on the RPGCodex.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

"Casual" player here.

 

Everyone, especially Sensuki, your opinions are just that: opinions. Stop bandying them around as facts and stop speaking for casual players as if we are all of the same mind. 

 

Also, "successor" and "feels" are highly subjective terms. The fact that none of you can agree on what does and doesn't make this game "feel" like IE should tell you exactly how impossible it will be for Obsidian to deliver on this promise.

 

"Casual" player here.

 

Everyone, especially halethrain. How about you contribute something useful. I know it's hard for you halethrain to actually contribute something worthwhile to this forum but maybe one day you might actually do it.

 

Also, if the dev's are going to use the IE games as something that PoE is paying homage to, I have no idea why people on this forum want the combat to be like other games like NWN2 and NOT like the IE games. Or here's a tip halethrain, go play the IE games and then NWN2 and tell us what is different about them. Oh that's right, it's all 'subjective'. Thanks for your constructive input while I fart on your post.

[YunikoYokai5]

Yeah, I'm evacuating out of this thread. There is so much hate flying around just now.

 

But for something on topic, is it just me or is there some more...decoration around the town (eg flowers and such). If not, then I'm a blind bat XD it looks really nice but that contrast has to be sorted, especially on the grass. I tend to use the colourblind mode because I find blue easier to differentiate from in foliage just now. Hopefully they fix it soon!

[constantine]

The Rogue having Carnage is a bug, which I reported, but no. If you didn't notice, I just killed a guy with disengagement attacks only. I didn't even move or command any of my characters except for my Wizard.

If that won't catch the devs attention to do something about engagement, I don't know what will.

[Gairnulf]

 

The Rogue having Carnage is a bug, which I reported, but no. If you didn't notice, I just killed a guy with disengagement attacks only. I didn't even move or command any of my characters except for my Wizard.

If that won't catch the devs attention to do something about engagement, I don't know what will.

 

I still dind't understand how can you force an enemy to disengage from you.

[Sensuki]

The enemies were chasing the Wizard, if you position your guys close together and run enemies past, they will run inside the edge of Engagement range of your other characters. Because they are now being Engaged by multiple characters they have to move to attack one of them, moving provokes a Disengagement attack. A Disengagement attack plays an interrupt animation which stops movement, once they are interrupted they have to move again because they are not in range yet, and they suffer Disengagement attacks, and are interrupted again ... and so on and so forth.

 

Because Engagement range is a circle, it only works properly if the enemy is running directly at you into the circle, you can force them to cross the circle.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Sensuki

[Gairnulf]

The enemies were chasing the Wizard, if you position your guys close together and run enemies past, they will run inside the edge of Engagement range of your other characters. Because they are now being Engaged by multiple characters they have to move to attack one of them, moving provokes a Disengagement attack. A Disengagement attack plays an interrupt animation which stops movement, once they are interrupted they have to move again because they are not in range yet, and they suffer Disengagement attacks, and are interrupted again ... and so on and so forth.

 

Because Engagement range is a circle, it only works properly if the enemy is running directly at you into the circle, you can force them to cross the circle.

So you can kill enemies just by kiting and engagement abuse Could you make a video of this. It would be hilarious.

[Sensuki]

Yeah I will when I do my Engagement thread.

[constantine]

The enemies were chasing the Wizard, if you position your guys close together and run enemies past, they will run inside the edge of Engagement range of your other characters.

See @Sensuki ?! Moving and positioning is very important for Pillars after all ! Everyone's worries calmed

[Sensuki]

Not after the initial melee

[forgottenlor]

 

These people will make the game economically successful or not. They will probably decided if a Pillars of Eternity 2 gets made.

Great CRPGs tend to be economically unsuccessful. Sad but true. If everything Obsidian cares about right now is profit, PoE is doomed. (Doomed as a good RPG I mean, not financially.)

 

So you don't think its a goal of Obsidian to make a game that sells well? Or not to sell well enough to make a sequel? Do you think they'd be satisified having to lay people off, knowing it was a necessary sacrifice in order to make a great game?

[Ashen Rohk]

Well, first chance I've had to play a new PoE build in six weeks! EDIT: HOLY HELL THE LAST BUILD I PLAYED WAS 261!

 

Overall, the feel is a lot better, combat feels smoother. There's been a ton of great work on it, will put my thoughts into a video soon.

 

Agree with the screenshot comments about the VFX, needs a bit of cleaning up especially with the webs/grass.

 

Also, some really silly spelling mistakes and errors in tool hints e.g. states 'cipher' in a tooltip for a chanter spell.

 

Finally, a really REALLY small niggle: Get rid of the damn prefered stat starts/tips in character creation. We're not daft and it's not that bloody hard to figure out.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Ashen Rohk

[Osvir]

Posting here too:

Great stuff :D most playable build as of yet (first time managing to play through the thing without any issues!). Lovin' it

I think it is important to not play Beta Inspector ALL the time too, this time I let myself immerse into the game, and whenever there was a bug I took a screenshot and then pretended that it never happened and continued to experience the feelz, story, and my character/party concept/build (and even wrote down some Roleplaying notes every day in the Journal).

So..................................... try to actually PLAY the GAME instead of TESTING the BETA. Just a tip.

EDIT:

Finally, a really REALLY small niggle: Get rid of the damn prefered stat starts/tips in character creation. We're not daft and it's not that bloody hard to figure out.

 

Did you... check the options menu? 

Edited November 29, 2014 by Osvir

[prodigydancer]

Everyone, especially Sensuki, your opinions are just that: opinions.

Opinions based on actual gameplay facts (proven by videos) and math are no longer opinions.

[Osvir]

I'd say there's a HUGE difference between a Technical (Mathematical) Gamer and a Roleplaying Gamer... I think the RPGCodex tends to be the former, often, ironically. So... I dunno... do you want to play Calculation? Listen to Sensuki. If you want to Roleplay? Play the game.

[Ashen Rohk]

 

Finally, a really REALLY small niggle: Get rid of the damn prefered stat starts/tips in character creation. We're not daft and it's not that bloody hard to figure out.

 

Did you... check the options menu? 

 

 

I did not!

[prodigydancer]

do you want to play Calculation? Listen to Sensuki.

/facepalm

 

Sensuki does calculations and testing so that we could play and enjoy a decent CRPG instead of struggling with a mediocre one where nothing makes sense.

[Osvir]

Absolutely, I agree, what Sensuki is doing is mostly great in my opinion

But that wasn't what I was asking... I was asking what you are doing?

 

Like, I have played the game quite a bit and left feedback/input/ideas (both technical and design), and I don't whole-heartedly always agree with Sensuki's design implementations or design mods (partially because I haven't tried and played them myself to get an idea/experience of what he wants to do). I wouldn't say that the system is mediocre or that it doesn't make any sense (it actually makes a lot of sense once you get more used to it and you actually learn from what the game helpers are telling you). Or, well, it wasn't making much sense in terms of clarity and playability up until this release (due to technical issues).

But now it's actually playable! Oh, and I play on Path of the Damned/Hard/Expert with no UI tips now, and combat is manageable if you know what you're doing. Or if you took some time to actually try and understand what you're doing, and how the game does what it does and why it does it... if clicking a pixel away from a combat, and you get disengage attacked, maybe you're not exactly following the designed rules?

Maybe, you, Sensuki should stop trying to fight against the system (with your beautiful critical eyes) and try to play with the system for once. You deserve the breather.

Try taking a rest from the critical, and try immersing yourself into the short story of the BB, and you know... actually play it. I saw a post sometime from earlier this month where you said you haven't actually played the game yet (neither had I, and it was p. exhausting which is why I took a break from the forum). This build is great for that, in my opinion. Something tells me the collaboration with Jesse Cox was a bit of a way of saying "Try enjoying it a bit too" <- that is a choice, if you "I can't enjoy it because X reason" then you're just "choosing" to be difficult~ Since BB came out, many of us focused on the not so enjoyable task: Namely "Testing", partially because it was mostly unplayable (up til this point). 

 

Maybe it's time for some to take a break and try "Playing" some too? And resume with "Testing" later.

I've turned off all of the UI stuff now, because I don't need it anymore and I can still make sense of what's happening on the screen (unless massive VFX, such as Web). 

Also:
Upload your no engagement Sensuki, should give a good idea what people think and feel about it. I'd love to try it too :D

Edited November 29, 2014 by Osvir

[morhilane]

 

do you want to play Calculation? Listen to Sensuki.

/facepalm

 

Sensuki does calculations and testing so that we could play and enjoy a decent CRPG instead of struggling with a mediocre one where nothing makes sense.

 

 

I think that was a reference to how Sensuki is a min/maxer as opposed to make a "Wizard with high Dexterity for role-play reasons" player. Min/maxing is real good for a tester and he does a really good job at it - maybe too good -, but it's debatable how appropriate his propositions are in term of global design for the game. I'll leave that decision to the devs.

 

---

 

I played a little bit of the new build (deep in DAI right now) and it felt much better than the previous build. I played a Druid and it felt more fluid and didn't bug on me like in the previous build. Although, maybe a bit too easy again, but that's balance and always in flux (and then the game release and you get a OP class/skill...always).