The culture of Rape, Bill Cosby Story

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Sure thing, whatever keeps the minimum wage people from killing themselves after realizing their failure in life. 

 

 

I'm sure a guy with a Nobel prize in economics has a vested interest in trying to cobble together some proof that helps him coping with his utter failure in life.

 

Oh, wait, no.

[Longknife]

 

 

The very discussion we're having is pretty much rape culture in a nutshell.

 

Every time people picture a seedy-looking criminal forcing a young woman at knifepoint to have sex with them (Irréversible, anyone?) when thinking "rape"? Rape culture.

Every time people go "calling all sorts of nonconsensual sex 'rape' cheapens the word! YOU ARE THE REAL SEXIST"? Rape culture.

Every time you walk into a room with more than 5 women in it and not thinking "statistically, at least one of them was or will be raped during their lifetime"? Rape culture.

 

Essentially, treating rape as this sort of mythical Most Heinous of Crimes only absolute monsters commit instead of something that happens to a fifth of the female population some point in their lifetimes, in the overwhelming majority of cases done by people they're closely familiar with? That is rape culture.

 

Bulls***.

 

To everything.

Especially the last part. Where did those numbers come from anyway?

Gromnir and I discussed this in another thread were we exchanged studies. The most recent CDC study was closer to 1 in 10 than 1 in 5, which is of course still ridiculously much and it's a real problem. Here's a catch though: That CDC study was about sexual violence and classified rape and other violence as different things. It also didn't classify anything other than the perpetrator using a male sexual organ as rape. If adjusted to also allow for "forced to penetrate someone", i.e. a woman raping a man in their definition of rape rather than calling that "other sexual violence", 1 in 10 of both women AND men reported being raped in their lifetime. I'll try and find the study.

 

EDIT: Had to use different terms for board language filter reasons.

 

EDIT EDIT: I believe this is the study: http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/cdc_nisvs_ipv_report_2013_v17_single_a.pdf

 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#/image/File:Rapes_per_1000_people_1973-2003.jpg

 

wat

 

 

EDIT: oh and yes that's a lazy Wikipedia data graph citation lulz. I was merely throwing it out as a suggestion that "perhaps some of these rape rate claims deserve serious discussion cause there's ones claiming as low as 1 in 1000." I'm quite busy at the moment and admittedly did not look into the validity of the above graph but figured one of you might have fun with it. :/

Edited November 21, 2014 by Longknife

[Malcador]

Aye, I guess a lot of grief could be avoided in these discussions if you dirty feminists could just use a terminology that's not so damn inflammatory / you ignorant twats would just look up what people actually mean by using words that have very specific meanings in the specific context they're mentioned. (Everyone feel free to pick one according to the tribe they feel like belonging to).

Yep, you're still a ****, but I guess you had to get that with your studies. For non-science stuff like this, it can be a bit irritating to look up what a term is supposed mean as that doesn't always mesh with what the person speaking means, anyway. Not sure how the "culture" part fits into it, the term really seems improper when it can directly reference perception more than anything.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#/image/File:Rapes_per_1000_people_1973-2003.jpg

 

EDIT: oh and yes that's a lazy Wikipedia data graph citation lulz. I was merely throwing it out as a suggestion that "perhaps some of these rape rate claims deserve serious discussion cause there's ones claiming as low as 1 in 1000." I'm quite busy at the moment and admittedly did not look into the validity of the above graph but figured one of you might have fun with it. :/ 

 

 

From the very same article: "According to the American Medical Association (1995), sexual violence, and rape in particular, is considered the most under-reported violent crime.[9][10]

The most common reasons given by victims for not reporting rapes are the belief that it is a personal or private matter, and that they fear reprisal from the assailant. A 2007 British government report says "Estimates from research suggest that between 75 and 95 percent of rape crimes are never reported to the police.""

 

Edited to respond to the edit: I'm pretty sure that graph is showing the number of reported rape cases, given that it comes from the Bureau of Justice.

Edited November 21, 2014 by aluminiumtrioxid

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Estimated based on what? How exactly looks estimating how often something doesn't happen?

 

 

By, say, comparing how many people ask for medical/psychological help in rape-related cases versus how many rape reports are filed to the police?

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

 

Sure thing, whatever keeps the minimum wage people from killing themselves after realizing their failure in life.

I'm sure a guy with a Nobel prize in economics has a vested interest in trying to cobble together some proof that helps him coping with his utter failure in life.

 

Oh, wait, no.

What?

Dude don't drink and argue if you are not slavic.

 

 

I've read about the study in question in one of Kahneman's books; I assume he wouldn't have cited it if he hadn't found the science behind it reasonable.

[Longknife]

 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#/image/File:Rapes_per_1000_people_1973-2003.jpg

 

EDIT: oh and yes that's a lazy Wikipedia data graph citation lulz. I was merely throwing it out as a suggestion that "perhaps some of these rape rate claims deserve serious discussion cause there's ones claiming as low as 1 in 1000." I'm quite busy at the moment and admittedly did not look into the validity of the above graph but figured one of you might have fun with it. :/

 

From the very same article: "According to the American Medical Association (1995), sexual violence, and rape in particular, is considered the most under-reported violent crime.[9][10]

The most common reasons given by victims for not reporting rapes are the belief that it is a personal or private matter, and that they fear reprisal from the assailant. A 2007 British government report says "Estimates from research suggest that between 75 and 95 percent of rape crimes are never reported to the police.""

 

Edited to respond to the edit: I'm pretty sure that graph is showing the number of reported rape cases, given that it comes from the Bureau of Justice.

Right, and continuing on with the same wiki article, there's also a lot of scrutiny for many studies using overly broad definitions of rape, for example is cites one where they say "1 in 6 women will be victims of an attempted or completed rape" with things such as sex while under the influence of alcohol qualifying as rape.

 

If you take the numbers provided by some of the more respected organizations for monitoring crime rather than university studies, then they suggest rates are more like 1 in 200 or 1 in 300 ( in the USA). That is significantly more than 1 in 1000 and also correlates well with some of the claims that the overwhelming majority go unreported, but it's still quite a long stretch from 1 in 10 or 1 in 6.

 

 

 

 

Sorry I can't quote the article directly, I'm on an iPad atm and I friggin hate these things for copy-pasting and editing in general. But if you read the Wikipedia rape statistics section on the USA (on the page offering stats for various countries) you'll find the examples of 1 in 200 and 1 and 300. (Albeit one is as a .5 rate and one is simply showing the total estimated rapes in a year including unreported ones, which amounts to 1 in 300 with the USA's population roughly factored in)

Edited November 21, 2014 by Longknife

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

If you take the numbers provided by some of the more respected organizations for monitoring crime rather than university studies, then they suggest rates are more like 1 in 200 or 1 in 300 ( in the USA).

 

 

[citation needed]

[Longknife]

 

If you take the numbers provided by some of the more respected organizations for monitoring crime rather than university studies, then they suggest rates are more like 1 in 200 or 1 in 300 ( in the USA).

 

[citation needed]

Pls dun make me try copy pasting with this stupid Apple BS. :C

 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#United_States

 

It's in there, I promise.

 

EDIT: USA centers for disease control provides a total number which puts the rate at about 1 in 316 given USA population, while it does look like I misread the one by the NCVS; mistook the .5 for a .5 in 100 rather than a .5% of all women in the US.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Longknife

[Blarghagh]

To be fair, some of the problems Longknife mentioned are even present in the CDC study I linked (i.e. equating sex while under the influence with rape).

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

 

 

Sure thing, whatever keeps the minimum wage people from killing themselves after realizing their failure in life.

I'm sure a guy with a Nobel prize in economics has a vested interest in trying to cobble together some proof that helps him coping with his utter failure in life.

 

Oh, wait, no.

What?

Dude don't drink and argue if you are not slavic.

I've read about the study in question in one of Kahneman's books; I assume he wouldn't have cited it if he hadn't found the science behind it reasonable.

What study? You lost all sense to me.

 

 

The study about the impact CEO competence has on the overall productivity of companies I'm talking about since two pages?

[Meshugger]

Dear potential rapists and victims. What are we classifying as rape here?

[Malcador]

I imagine it is any sexual act without clear-minded consent.

[Meshugger]

I imagine it is any sexual act without clear-minded consent.

 

What is a sexual act? For example in India a kiss can be considered a sexual act.

[Longknife]

I EDITED MY ABOVE PLS GO CHECK C:

 

But yeah the wiki article has the rate ranging from 1 in 10 for sexual assault cases to 1 in 1000 for pure reported rape incidents to 1 in 316 as the only estimate provided purely for rape that I'm seeing. Someone double check my math though on the one in 10 post cause I can occasionally brain fart with maths, and double check that the 1 in 316 isn't the only estimate strictly focusing narrowly on rape.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Longknife

[Meshugger]

I am asking these questions because 1 in 6 means that every sixth girl i ever talked to have been treated like Tuesday Weld in Once upon a time in America. That just sounds way too high, because that means roughly 1 in 6 guys have done such a thing.

[Blarghagh]

 

I imagine it is any sexual act without clear-minded consent.

 

What is a sexual act? For example in India a kiss can be considered a sexual act.

 

 

Is undressing a girl with my eyes and staring creepily a sexual act?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

I imagine it is any sexual act without clear-minded consent.

 

 

What is a sexual act? For example in India a kiss can be considered a sexual act.

 

Is undressing a girl with my eyes and staring creepily a sexual act?

Yes ****lord.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Again, what was our problem with the NISVS study linked earlier which necessitates looking up 10 other different studies with completely undisclosed methodology?

[Gfted1]

Too bad we don't take a drop of blood from every single person born and add it into a database. With everyone's DNA on file we could probably cut all crime by a huge percentage. #abrightertommorrow

[pseudonymous]

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/20/opinion/hill-bill-cosby-case-rape-culture/index.html?hpt=hp_c3

 

This article raises 6 thought provoking and sobering points around the culture of rape that exists in certain levels of society

 

The only place rape culture exists in western society is in your tiny warped mind.  Prosecutors chose not to prosecute because there was exactly zero evidence of any sexual assault.  This is a civil case in which some moderately well-off woman hopes to become a very rich woman off the back of a celebrity.

 

 

Patriarchy

 

The only people keeping women down are the 3rd-wave feminist women and their male SJW friends that continually state women can't do something.

 

 

Denial

 

The only denial here, is that Mark Lamont Hill doesn't admit there is zero evidence of any sexual assault.

 

 

Blaming the victim

 

Yes, there is a lot of blaming Bill Cosby for something without any evidence.

 

 

Perpetuating myths

 

Like the myth of Rape Culture or the myth that 1 in 5 women in the US (the entire population of California, Texas, and Michigan) has been sexually assaulted which is perpetuated by poor methodology in all recent studies on sexual assault?  Methodology that automatically marks sloppy drunken sex and attempted kissing as sexual assault.

 

 

Trivializing sexual violence

 

This wouldn't happen if people would stop claiming sloppy drunken sex is rape.  If sloppy drunken sex is rape then we're all rapists because who hasn't had sloppy drunken sex?  Come on, people, rape is a horrible thing, and one rape is too many, but inflating the numbers in your study by classifying an attempted kiss and sloppy drunken sex as rape does trivialize sexual violence.

 

 

Turning rapists Into victims

 

There is zero evidence that anyone has been raped which means that if Bill Cosby is a rapist, he's a real good one.  You should make sure your daughter wears a chastity belt around him.

[Blarghagh]

Too bad we don't take a drop of blood from every single person born and add it into a database. With everyone's DNA on file we could probably cut all crime by a huge percentage. #abrightertommorrow

 

The first step towards Pre-Cogs.

[Meshugger]

Again, what was our problem with the NISVS study linked earlier which necessitates looking up 10 other different studies with completely undisclosed methodology?

 

Link it again. This thread is approaching the speed of light.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

To be fair, some of the problems Longknife mentioned are even present in the CDC study I linked (i.e. equating sex while under the influence with rape).

 

Page 13 has a detailed breakdown: 6.6% experienced complete forced penetration, 2.5% attempted forced penetration, 3.4% completed alcohol/drug-facilitated penetration; 9.8% was pressured in nonphysical ways (abusing influence/authority, threats of ending a relationship - this probably should've had a more detailed breakdown), 6.4% experienced unwanted sexual contact (fondling, forced kissing, grabbing body parts).

 

So yeah, that's 9.1% of rape and attempted rape with the threat of physical violence even after discounting alcohol/drugs, nonphysical pressure and non-penetrative sexual violence.

Edited November 21, 2014 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Longknife]

I have tried thrice now to post and each time this ****ing piece of **** iPad has crashed on me.

 

Seriously, can we talk about how much I ****ing hate apple? Overly flashy piece of **** OS that lacks in practicality BUT BY GOD I CAN SLIDE THE SCREEN OVER WITH A TOUCHSCREEN SO ITS THE FUTURE AND I GOTTA HAVE ONE. No **** off Apple, there's no reason trying to cite something should put me at risk of crashing.

 

 

Anyways: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/21/rape-study-report-america-us_n_4310765.html I wanted to link that as it explains some of the methodology behind some of the numbers in the wiki article. The 1 in 316 number appears to be the most generous number by experts for 2010, and you can specifically read what does and doesn't qualify as rape according to each group. Different definitions appears to be the reason for DRASTICALLY different claims and results.

 

 

 

 

 

I still say the thing to take away from this is to be objective. With all due respect I can't help but feel like people name their "1 in x" statistics for shock value to an extent, but it seems we simply don't know and it would be disingenuous to regard any of those numbers as a certainty. I'm kinda with Meshugger in that if I were to poll the women I know, the rape rate is AT LEAST above 1 in 50, so those 1 in 10 stats always come off a bit ridiculous to me. If I were to consider how many female friends I know who've been coerced into a kiss while drunk into the "rape" number though? (And no I didn't do it, I'm not a jerk) Yeah it drops a decent sum, but I think treating some drunken crap as full on rape kinda diminishes the impact of full on rape. I don't think my friends who've ACTUALLY been raped would appreciate it.

 

Regardless, it's still an issue and a serious one, but I think the one thing to take away is that we should tone down any claims of definitively knowing rape rates. We don't.

 

 

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I have an iPad to chuck out the window.