Malcador Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Why do you say I don't care for the legal system...I think he is guilty that's not the same thing as me saying he shouldn't have a fair trial if required Nah...you score more " social justice " cookies when you support the rape victims ...so don't worry about that Based on your posting here, you walk into the trap of wanting justice for people you like alone. Recently, think on your stance on the ruling that feeling harassed isn't enough to convict. As for supporting victims, heh, yeah, posting online will help them tonnes. But yes, it will give you credit for being the Right Kind of person. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 Why do you say I don't care for the legal system...I think he is guilty that's not the same thing as me saying he shouldn't have a fair trial if required Nah...you score more " social justice " cookies when you support the rape victims ...so don't worry about that Based on your posting here, you walk into the trap of wanting justice for people you like alone. Recently, think on your stance on the ruling that feeling harassed isn't enough to convict. As for supporting victims, heh, yeah, posting online will help them tonnes. But yes, it will give you credit for being the Right Kind of person. Okay Malc I genuinely want to understand your point, please give me examples so I get it ? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 It doesn't surprise me that you support Cosby..but you don't have much respect for women anyway so why take there side on any issue right? Unlike you I support equal right to everyone. In this case I support a fair trial, again unlike you. Nah...you don't even like black people so why are you pretending that you care about Cosby's trial It just so happens you dislike feminists and women wanting gender equality more than black people so you are now attacking them "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Okay Malc I genuinely want to understand your point, please give me examples so I get it ? I don't maintain a .txt file for this forum, and even if I were to mention cases where you have a rather amusing idea of justice not sure what that would achieve. I talk to enough walls at work. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 Okay Malc I genuinely want to understand your point, please give me examples so I get it ? I don't maintain a .txt file for this forum, and even if I were to mention cases where you have a rather amusing idea of justice not sure what that would achieve. I talk to enough walls at work. Thats interesting, I ask you for examples of why you criticized me as I'm genuinely interested and you can't give me any? Please think,I'm not trying to catch you out "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 It doesn't surprise me that you support Cosby..but you don't have much respect for women anyway so why take there side on any issue right? Unlike you I support equal right to everyone. In this case I support a fair trial, again unlike you. Nah...you don't even like black people so why are you pretending that you care about Cosby's trial It just so happens you dislike feminists and women wanting gender equality more than black people so you are now attacking them I don't have to like anybody. I tolerate most people and don't dislike the selected few. That doesn't mean I support unjust and unlawful treatment of groups I dislike...again unlike you BruceVC. You would support mistreatment, injustice and I think even genocide of groups you are not fond of. Your words just prove this "you don't even like (...) so why are you pretending that you care", meaning if you don;t like some groups then you don't care what happens to them. You are like USA during IIWW when Polish officer Jan Karski informed about Holocaust of Jews "well it's horrible, but we don't really like Jews". I may be antisocial jackass, but you BruceVC once again proved to be a horrible human being. Yeah, it true...I admit it ..I'm a horrible person What do you suggest I do to become a better person ? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 "What do you suggest I do to become a better person ?" Don't use "culture of rape" ever again. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogun01 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Sorry to rerail this thread but this ain't the "Bruce improvement thread". 1 I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 "What do you suggest I do to become a better person ?" Don't use "culture of rape" ever again. Why? I appreciate the fact you seem to want to have a real debate but you realize that the words " culture of rape " was used in the original article I posted See below, so it wasn't my words it was CNN http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/20/opinion/hill-bill-cosby-case-rape-culture/index.html?hpt=hp_c3 "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 Sorry to rerail this thread but this ain't the "Bruce improvement thread". I don't mind but thanks for the sentiment You see Orog I just don't respond to people who I don't want to. I also find this criticism of what I say very entertaining because most of the time its unfounded Also this is the type of attention you get from some people when you raise SJ issues....but that's just a consequence. Of course I'm not suggesting I prefer that type of debate, I obviously prefer the debates we and others have. We can disagree but its rationale "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amentep Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) "What do you suggest I do to become a better person ?" Don't use "culture of rape" ever again. Why? I appreciate the fact you seem to want to have a real debate but you realize that the words " culture of rape " was used in the original article I posted See below, so it wasn't my words it was CNN http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/20/opinion/hill-bill-cosby-case-rape-culture/index.html?hpt=hp_c3 From that article Despite report after report, often from credible sources, the general public has failed to take the stories seriously So I'm going to ask you, Bruce, since this is one of the main criticisms over the reaction to the allegations against Cosby, that people don't immediately start treating people like rapists when someone accuses them of doing such... ...is that what you really want to end "Rape Culture"? To not have people wait for an outcome of a civil or state trial but to accept any accusation so long as the source is "credible" or that there are many sources or that there are many incidents over a long period of time? Edited July 8, 2015 by Amentep I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) "What do you suggest I do to become a better person ?" Don't use "culture of rape" ever again. Why? I appreciate the fact you seem to want to have a real debate but you realize that the words " culture of rape " was used in the original article I posted See below, so it wasn't my words it was CNN http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/20/opinion/hill-bill-cosby-case-rape-culture/index.html?hpt=hp_c3 From that article Despite report after report, often from credible sources, the general public has failed to take the stories seriously So I'm going to ask you, Bruce, since this is one of the main criticisms over the reaction to the allegations against Cosby, that people don't immediately start treating people like rapists when someone accuses them of doing such... ...is that what you really want to end "Rape Culture"? To not have people wait for an outcome of a civil or state trial but to accept any accusation so long as the source is "credible" or that there are many sources or that there are many incidents over a long period of time? "What do you suggest I do to become a better person ?" Don't use "culture of rape" ever again. Why? I appreciate the fact you seem to want to have a real debate but you realize that the words " culture of rape " was used in the original article I posted See below, so it wasn't my words it was CNN http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/20/opinion/hill-bill-cosby-case-rape-culture/index.html?hpt=hp_c3 From that article Despite report after report, often from credible sources, the general public has failed to take the stories seriously So I'm going to ask you, Bruce, since this is one of the main criticisms over the reaction to the allegations against Cosby, that people don't immediately start treating people like rapists when someone accuses them of doing such... ...is that what you really want to end "Rape Culture"? To not have people wait for an outcome of a civil or state trial but to accept any accusation so long as the source is "credible" or that there are many sources or that there are many incidents over a long period of time? Sure, I get your point but I think you misunderstood what he was saying, he says "Despite report after report, often from credible sources, the general public has failed to take the stories seriously. That was, of course, until male comedian Hannibal Buress raised the rape allegations during a two-minute comedy skit last month." So what he is really saying is that until now people haven't taken the stories seriously Also you are being dramatic, loads of people think he is guilty. This doesn't mean now all rape charges will be automatically believed Can you answer me something, you have an issue with the fact that I am saying he is guilty before going to trial. And you are positioning that as a bad thing right ? Have you never had preconceived views on the guilt of people before trail? Like the Boston Marathon bomber ...when he was caught didn't you think he was guilty ? Edited July 8, 2015 by BruceVC "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Well to be fair, there'll be culture of rape when ISIS conquers the infidel lands of Rum. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) Well to be fair, there'll be culture of rape when ISIS conquers the infidel lands of Rum. I don't think the words " culture of rape " is appropriate...I think it adds a level of exaggeration and unneeded outrage to the debate Edited July 8, 2015 by BruceVC "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amentep Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) Sure, I get your point but I think you misunderstood what he was saying, he says "Despite report after report, often from credible sources, the general public has failed to take the stories seriously. That was, of course, until male comedian Hannibal Buress raised the rape allegations during a two-minute comedy skit last month." So what he is really saying is that until now people haven't taken the stories seriously I don't think anyone took the stories more seriously because some comedian said something. But my point is what defines taking the accusations seriously in the first place? Somebody is accused of rape by multiple people. What should our reaction be? make the accused the subject of gossip and rumor? assume the accused is guilty until proven innocent? publicly denounce the accused for their alleged actions? shun the accused? ensure the accused loses their job and livelyhood? ensure the accused loses custody of their children? ensure that the accused is cut off from all ties to the human race? In short, what precisely is the appropriate reaction when a person has been accused as opposed to found guilty (criminal) or liable (civil)? Also you are being dramatic, loads of people think he is guilty. This doesn't mean now all rape charges will be automatically believed I'm not talking about whether a person thinks he's guilty or not. What I'm talking about is what is the desired reaction to an accusation of rape? Because what is apparent is that there are people who believe that we should treat an accusation of rape as proof of rape. That apparently giving the accuser the benefit of the doubt as opposed to storming their house and tarring and feathering them isn't the right reaction. So tell me, how should we react to demonstrate we are against rape? Can you answer me something, you have an issue with the fact that I am saying he is guilty before going to trial. Not intentionally I'm not. Again as I said yesterday I've made no claims intentionally regarding people making up their own mind or forming their own opinions. But you - amid the news reporter-pundit types as well - keep talking about how "the general public has failed to take the stories seriously". So here's my question, how are we supposed to demonstrate that we take the stories seriously? What does that mean? What rights do we deprive the accused of to demonstrate that we're taking these accusations seriously? This is the point I'm getting at. Edited July 8, 2015 by Amentep I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) am admitting to being mighty conflicted about accusations o' rape. while rape shield laws exist to protect the accuser from being victimized by the process, the reality is different and ugly. converse http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2152409/Brian-Banks-Player-falsely-accused-rape-NFL-auditions-teams.html we worked at a juvenile detention facility for a couple years. were good money and were a 24-hour facility so night hours were available-- we could go to school and work... just so long as we never slept. anywho, there were a period o' time while we worked at The Hall that accusations o' sexual impropriety on the part o' the staff became endemic. the residents learned that the mere accusation o' sexual wrongdoing on the part o' staff related to searches or showers could lead to harsh consequences for the staff. stoopid and angry kids making up terrible stories just to make their perceived tormentors suffer? gosh, what a shock, eh? how many false claims gotta occur before folks become suspicious and jaded? only one? perhaps all you need know is that some "victims" do lie for one to become suspicious o' such accusations? as an aside, public perception o' malfeasance or wrongdoing doesn't need pass same level o' scrutiny as legal guilt. nor should it. is many actions that is wrong and stoopid that ain't illegal. and particularly in the USA where we got unique exclusion rules, folks we know is perpetrator o' a crime must necessarily be found not guilty if there is a failure o' police or lawyers or the State. regardless, the court of public opinion don't need follow the same rules as do courts. good. yes, it is a terrible thing that mistaken public opinion can ruin an innocent man's life, but how many o' us know complete d-bags that has figuratively (or perhaps even literally) gotten away with murder and managed to escape justice? we know folks that lie and cheat and steal and have no criminal record. the justice system can't take away their liberty, but don't make 'em any less a d-bag. dunno, perhaps 'cause o' our profession, Gromnir is able to insulate the legal process from our personal notions o' right and wrong. HA! Good Fun! Edited July 8, 2015 by Gromnir "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 am admitting to being mighty conflicted about accusations o' rape. while rape shield laws exist to protect the accuser from being victimized by the process, the reality is different and ugly. converse http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2152409/Brian-Banks-Player-falsely-accused-rape-NFL-auditions-teams.html we worked at a juvenile detention facility for a couple years. were good money and were a 24-hour facility so night hours were available-- we could go to school and work... just so long as we never slept. anywho, there were a period o' time while we worked at The Hall that accusations o' sexual impropriety on the part o' the staff became endemic. the residents learned that the mere accusation o' sexual wrongdoing on the part o' staff related to searches or showers could lead to harsh consequences for the staff. stoopid and angry kids making up terrible stories just to make their perceived tormentors suffer? gosh, what a shock, eh? how many false claims gotta occur before folks become suspicious and jaded? only one? perhaps all you need know is that some "victims" do lie for one to become suspicious o' such accusations? as an aside, public perception o' malfeasance or wrongdoing doesn't need pass same level o' scrutiny as legal guilt. nor should it. is many actions that is wrong and stoopid that ain't illegal. and particularly in the USA where we got unique exclusion rules, folks we know is perpetrator o' a crime must necessarily be found not guilty if there is a failure o' police or lawyers or the State. regardless, the court of public opinion don't need follow the same rules as do courts. good. yes, it is a terrible thing that mistaken public opinion can ruin an innocent man's life, but how many o' us know complete d-bags that has figuratively (or perhaps even literally) gotten away with murder and managed to escape justice? we know folks that lie and cheat and steal and have no criminal record. the justice system can't take away their liberty, but don't make 'em any less a d-bag. dunno, perhaps 'cause o' our profession, Gromnir is able to insulate the legal process from our personal notions o' right and wrong. HA! Good Fun! Gromnir your view on this topic matters to me because I generally agree with your logic Surly you believe he is guilty and please don't say " no I always wait for trials before formulating an opinion " What do you think based on everything that has happened ? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 Sure, I get your point but I think you misunderstood what he was saying, he says "Despite report after report, often from credible sources, the general public has failed to take the stories seriously. That was, of course, until male comedian Hannibal Buress raised the rape allegations during a two-minute comedy skit last month." So what he is really saying is that until now people haven't taken the stories seriously I don't think anyone took the stories more seriously because some comedian said something. But my point is what defines taking the accusations seriously in the first place? Somebody is accused of rape by multiple people. What should our reaction be? make the accused the subject of gossip and rumor? assume the accused is guilty until proven innocent? publicly denounce the accused for their alleged actions? shun the accused? ensure the accused loses their job and livelyhood? ensure the accused loses custody of their children? ensure that the accused is cut off from all ties to the human race? In short, what precisely is the appropriate reaction when a person has been accused as opposed to found guilty (criminal) or liable (civil)? Also you are being dramatic, loads of people think he is guilty. This doesn't mean now all rape charges will be automatically believed I'm not talking about whether a person thinks he's guilty or not. What I'm talking about is what is the desired reaction to an accusation of rape? Because what is apparent is that there are people who believe that we should treat an accusation of rape as proof of rape. That apparently giving the accuser the benefit of the doubt as opposed to storming their house and tarring and feathering them isn't the right reaction. So tell me, how should we react to demonstrate we are against rape? Can you answer me something, you have an issue with the fact that I am saying he is guilty before going to trial. Not intentionally I'm not. Again as I said yesterday I've made no claims intentionally regarding people making up their own mind or forming their own opinions. But you - amid the news reporter-pundit types as well - keep talking about how "the general public has failed to take the stories seriously". So here's my question, how are we supposed to demonstrate that we take the stories seriously? What does that mean? What rights do we deprive the accused of to demonstrate that we're taking these accusations seriously? This is the point I'm getting at. I think you need to use common sense when it comes to rape allegations ...are you really telling me that you don't think he is guilty because he hasn't been convicted or charged ? You need to respond how you feel is appropriate when someone is guilty of habitual rape...I imagine surprise and condemnation and sorrow for his victims. And then a reminder of how much work is still to be done so going forward people don't get away with it Desired reaction? Nothing really expect for personal views and forum comments ...but he needs to see his day in court to make it real for most people "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) based on the info we got, we believe cosby is a dirtbag. if he weren't too old for it to matter, we sure as heck wouldn't feel comfortable if he were dating a family member or friend. is not the same as guilt. for us, legal guilt is needing meet a whole different standard. am suspecting that our response will be unsatisfactory. ... in many ways, Gromnir is still a true believer, even after all these years. we hold to the proposition that is is better that 10 or 100 o' the guilty should go free than that one innocent man should suffer. we accept that our system requires that men/women who has done wrong will escape justice and that such is a good thing as the safeguards that allow the villains to go free also reduces the likelihood that innocent men will accidental or purposely be deprived o' their liberty. HA! Good Fun! Edited July 8, 2015 by Gromnir "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amentep Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) I think you need to use common sense when it comes to rape allegations ...are you really telling me that you don't think he is guilty because he hasn't been convicted or charged ? I'm not talking about my personal feelings because I'm trying not to make this about personal feelings. Here is what I'm seeing: Woman accuses guy of rape More women accuse guy of rape People complain the public isn't believing the weight of the accusations against guy and point to this being a "Rape Culture" that denies rape and enable rapists So my questions stands, how should society treat a guy accused of rape so as to not be a part of "rape culture"? Should we fire him? Boycott his work? What if we don't employ him and never bought his work? How do we demonstrate that we don't support rape? What vigilante justice will make our society right in light of accusations - regardless of how many - that have never led to a court decision? Desired reaction? Nothing really expect for personal views and forum comments ...but he needs to see his day in court to make it real for most people So its okay to "make it real" without his day in court? What penalty should be lodged by society towards the accused to show it has been made real? Edited July 8, 2015 by Amentep 1 I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 I think you need to use common sense when it comes to rape allegations ...are you really telling me that you don't think he is guilty because he hasn't been convicted or charged ? I'm not talking about my personal feelings because I'm trying not to make this about personal feelings. Here is what I'm seeing: Woman accuses guy of rape More women accuse guy of rape People complain the public isn't believing the weight of the accusations against guy and point to this being a "Rape Culture" that denies rape and enable rapists So my questions stands, how should society treat a guy accused of rape so as to not be a part of "rape culture"? Should we fire him? Boycott his work? How do we demonstrate that we don't support rape? What vigilante justice will make our society right in light of accusations - regardless of how many - that have never led to a court decision? Desired reaction? Nothing really expect for personal views and forum comments ...but he needs to see his day in court to make it real for most people So its okay to "make it real" without his day in court? What penalty should be lodged by society towards the accused to show it has been made real? "Woman accuses guy of rape More women accuse guy of rape People complain the public isn't believing the weight of the accusations against guy and point to this being a "Rape Culture" that denies rape and enable rapists" Is this a common issue because only then would your concern make sense ? Surly you aren't worried this may happen? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 based on the info we got, we believe cosby is a dirtbag. if he weren't too old for it to matter, we sure as heck wouldn't feel comfortable if he were dating a family member or friend. is not the same as guilt. for us, legal guilt is needing meet a whole different standard. am suspecting that our response will be unsatisfactory. ... in many ways, Gromnir is still a true believer, even after all these years. we hold to the proposition that is is better that 10 or 100 o' the guilty should go free than that one innocent man should suffer. we accept that our system requires that men/women who has done wrong will escape justice and that such is a good thing as the safeguards that allow the villains to go free also reduces the likelihood that innocent men will accidental or purposely be deprived o' their liberty. HA! Good Fun! Interesting answer, you see when it comes to my personal views on Cosby I can't separate the guilty and the fact he is a dirtbag You do have more temperance than me but that doesn't surprise me because of your life experiences. For me its simple, if a guy commits rape on this scale I cannot show much restraint "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 based on the info we got, we believe cosby is a dirtbag. if he weren't too old for it to matter, we sure as heck wouldn't feel comfortable if he were dating a family member or friend. is not the same as guilt. for us, legal guilt is needing meet a whole different standard. am suspecting that our response will be unsatisfactory. ... in many ways, Gromnir is still a true believer, even after all these years. we hold to the proposition that is is better that 10 or 100 o' the guilty should go free than that one innocent man should suffer. we accept that our system requires that men/women who has done wrong will escape justice and that such is a good thing as the safeguards that allow the villains to go free also reduces the likelihood that innocent men will accidental or purposely be deprived o' their liberty. HA! Good Fun! Interesting answer, you see when it comes to my personal views on Cosby I can't separate the guilty and the fact he is a dirtbag You do have more temperance than me but that doesn't surprise me because of your life experiences. For me its simple, if a guy commits rape on this scale I cannot show much restraint if we believe he has done wrong, then we want to see the process applied fair. we don't need legal punishment per se. ... am gonna admit that there is cases in which we suspect that the process has been subverted. is the State v. Defendant in a criminal case. is not victim v. Defendant. is society as a whole that is s'posed getting justice. however, as a complete random example, a wealthy defendant might be able to convince a victim to refrain from testifying. is pretty much 0 chance a prosecutor is gonna try and nail a defendant for rape w/o the cooperation o' the victim. so, am much bothered when we see a professional basketball player (again, is complete random example) possible escape justice by what amounts to paying off the victim. such results offend us. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 based on the info we got, we believe cosby is a dirtbag. if he weren't too old for it to matter, we sure as heck wouldn't feel comfortable if he were dating a family member or friend. is not the same as guilt. for us, legal guilt is needing meet a whole different standard. am suspecting that our response will be unsatisfactory. ... in many ways, Gromnir is still a true believer, even after all these years. we hold to the proposition that is is better that 10 or 100 o' the guilty should go free than that one innocent man should suffer. we accept that our system requires that men/women who has done wrong will escape justice and that such is a good thing as the safeguards that allow the villains to go free also reduces the likelihood that innocent men will accidental or purposely be deprived o' their liberty. HA! Good Fun! Interesting answer, you see when it comes to my personal views on Cosby I can't separate the guilty and the fact he is a dirtbag You do have more temperance than me but that doesn't surprise me because of your life experiences. For me its simple, if a guy commits rape on this scale I cannot show much restraint if we believe he has done wrong, then we want to see the process applied fair. we don't need legal punishment per se. ... am gonna admit that there is cases in which we suspect that the process has been subverted. is the State v. Defendant in a criminal case. is not victim v. Defendant. is society as a whole that is s'posed getting justice. however, as a complete random example, a wealthy defendant might be able to convince a victim to refrain from testifying. is pretty much 0 chance a prosecutor is gonna try and nail a defendant for rape w/o the cooperation o' the victim. so, am much bothered when we see a professional basketball player (again, is complete random example) possible escape justice by what amounts to paying off the victim. such results offend us. HA! Good Fun! Yes but what about people who do wrong outside the USA ....like ISIS You would judge them right? I am missing the part of why you guys don't want to pass judgement as I think we do it all the time ? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blarghagh Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 What a strange comparison? First of all, there is a big difference between war and civilized court. But even then, after the war is over we damn sure want to take them to court for trial rather than just decide they're guilty and be judge, jury and executioner. It's why the international court of justice in The Hague and the Geneva Convention even exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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