Volourn Posted May 11, 2004 Posted May 11, 2004 LOL DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Ellester Posted May 11, 2004 Author Posted May 11, 2004 LOL Depsite how bad things seem to be going in iraq to actually compare it to Vietnam goes to show some people don't know the history of Vitenam. And, the UN, Hades? Double LOL. The same Un who is "rumoured" to have very important members who accepted bribes from Hussein so he can continue to starve the Iraqi people in spite of the 'food for Oil" program? The same UN who only does lip service to helping innocent people? Triple LOL Also, to those who don't know, I'm not a bif fan of Bush. he's obviously made some horrendous mistakes. On top of that, i didn't even want him to win the last election. Al Gore all the way! Good comments vol. Vis, The US is trying to give over control to Iraq in June. This was always the proposed deadline. We will still offer military support until Iraq feels it no longer needs us. But, they need us right now and the government would topple if we didn Life is like a clam. Years of filtering crap then some bastard cracks you open and scrapes you into its damned mouth, end of story. - Steven Erikson
taks Posted May 11, 2004 Posted May 11, 2004 All that money we are pouring into that country would be better spent on US schools... hehe... money ain't going to help that pit. taks comrade taks... just because.
taks Posted May 11, 2004 Posted May 11, 2004 I don't think that comparison with Vietnam is bad... Vietnam was a sign for unconquerably worldwide, and it seems that despite one year after the official "the war is over" statement there's still war in Iraq, more terror, more suffer and more deads...Tendency rising. So tell me how the US will straighten this mess? uh, nearly 50,000 dead in vietnam... we were fighting in a jungle and were unprepared for it... it lasted nearly 10 years... NOBODY in the US liked it (at least, an overwhelming majority were against it)... we were trying to prevent the spread of communism (supposedly)... lemme see... 600 US dead (a little over 700 total, right?)... we're fighting in cities... it has been ONE year... over 70% STILL support our presence there (including Kerry, depending on which day you ask him)... we've already stopped saddam (really...)... yeah, good comparison there. um, morgoth, maybe, just maybe, you could come up with an original line that's not so ideologically straight outta the hard left liberal camp... maybe, just maybe, somebody will take you seriously. comparisons to vietnam make it sound like you read a cool news report from the LA Times and immediately hopped on the bandwagon. not very original, not really very popular, and not really very true these ideas... taks comrade taks... just because.
~Di Posted May 11, 2004 Posted May 11, 2004 Death toll in VietNam: 58,168. Death toll in Iraq so far, 743. (Going from memory, no links... sorry... but I'm fairly comfortable those figures are correct... or darned close).
Morgoth Posted May 11, 2004 Posted May 11, 2004 I don't think that comparison with Vietnam is bad... Vietnam was a sign for unconquerably worldwide, and it seems that despite one year after the official "the war is over" statement there's still war in Iraq, more terror, more suffer and more deads...Tendency rising. So tell me how the US will straighten this mess? uh, nearly 50,000 dead in vietnam... we were fighting in a jungle and were unprepared for it... it lasted nearly 10 years... NOBODY in the US liked it (at least, an overwhelming majority were against it)... we were trying to prevent the spread of communism (supposedly)... lemme see... 600 US dead (a little over 700 total, right?)... we're fighting in cities... it has been ONE year... over 70% STILL support our presence there (including Kerry, depending on which day you ask him)... we've already stopped saddam (really...)... yeah, good comparison there. um, morgoth, maybe, just maybe, you could come up with an original line that's not so ideologically straight outta the hard left liberal camp... maybe, just maybe, somebody will take you seriously. comparisons to vietnam make it sound like you read a cool news report from the LA Times and immediately hopped on the bandwagon. not very original, not really very popular, and not really very true these ideas... taks 900 000 deads at least in Vietnam war Rain makes everything better.
Volourn Posted May 11, 2004 Posted May 11, 2004 Real Truth: The so called Shi'ite uprising led by the Cleric Sadr is not a popular one. In fact, the higher Ayatollah is against it and his followers are demanding sadr leave Najaf and his gang of thugs put down their wepaons. As for the Sunni; well it seems after the horros of Fallujah; it seems that it is not being dealt with in a much more reasonabkle manner. And, unlike the awful things committed by US forces in Vietnam, the horros of the iraqi prison ar ebeingd ealt. At least 6 people have been fired, 7 have been charged, and that's just a start. Once again, to comapre Iraq to the absolute horros of Vietnam is not doing justice to Vietnam. that, of cours,e si not to say, that iraq has its own horros toc ontedn with; but the two wars are different in so many ways it's not even funny. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Morgoth Posted May 11, 2004 Posted May 11, 2004 Well, after that some of you people are probably better politically educated than me and think that I Rain makes everything better.
Volourn Posted May 11, 2004 Posted May 11, 2004 Huh? They both have apologized. Do you even pay attention? DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Morgoth Posted May 11, 2004 Posted May 11, 2004 I can't remember that they apologized personally to the Iraqi folks. Rain makes everything better.
Volourn Posted May 11, 2004 Posted May 11, 2004 You mean, face to face? No. But, they have apologized. They apologized to the Amerikan people for the embarrasment, the Iraqi people for the humilaition,a nd the victims for what they've been put through. Sure, it be nice if they were to apologize to them face to face; but I don't think it's neccessary. the best apology they can make is by cleaning up the mess. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Morgoth Posted May 12, 2004 Posted May 12, 2004 The apology in the arabic tv didn't really have that impact, but an apology in form of a good willing act like you mentioned could be the first step into the right direction... Rain makes everything better.
Volourn Posted May 12, 2004 Posted May 12, 2004 We shall see. You never know with the fools. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Orchomene Posted May 12, 2004 Posted May 12, 2004 Well, in fact, we can compare the situation with vietnam at least in a qualitative perspective. And I'm sure nobody in the USA wants to wait ten years and 50 000 dead people... Problem is now : How can the USA leave the country without being responsible of a possible (mostly predictable) civil war and maybe genocides (kurds, sunnites or shiites). All exterior interventions from western countries at least (but not only western) ended in blood. Just because the war is a strong destabilisation factor.
taks Posted May 12, 2004 Posted May 12, 2004 900 000 deads at least in Vietnam war comrade taks... just because.
taks Posted May 12, 2004 Posted May 12, 2004 Well, in fact, we can compare the situation with vietnam at least in a qualitative perspective. And I'm sure nobody in the USA wants to wait ten years and 50 000 dead people...Problem is now : How can the USA leave the country without being responsible of a possible (mostly predictable) civil war and maybe genocides (kurds, sunnites or shiites). All exterior interventions from western countries at least (but not only western) ended in blood. Just because the war is a strong destabilisation factor. math is cool... you apparently don't understand math. at the current rate, if we stay 10 years, it would be about 6000-7000 dead, not 50,000 as in vietnam. also, in vietnam, we were at war nearly the whole time, not once did we ever completely occupy and control the country... in iraq, we control the entire country but idiots from OUTSIDE iraq, coincidentally, are causing trouble.... sure saddam hard-liners are part of the problem, but in the end, none of these people care about iraqi prisoner abuse, or freedom for their country, or anything else. all they care about is maintaining a state of unrest so they can garner the support of the sheep the get in line to support their twisted cause. they want power... oppressive regimes maintain their control by oppression, and our presence disrupts that possibility, since no truly free iraqi citizen is willing to back to what it was like before. this applies to ALL of the middle east, btw. taks comrade taks... just because.
Phosphor Posted May 12, 2004 Posted May 12, 2004 Huh? They both have apologized. Do you even pay attention? Only when essentially forced into an apology by getting caught in the abuses. And Bush did not initially apologise, it was only after he was criticised for not apologising that he later did so. That's hardly an honest apology. And Rumsfeld's known about the abuses since at least January, and didn't say a word about it. It was only when the truth came out he had to scramble for damage control. I believe Cheney issued a few words as well, but again, only after being caught. The whole thing has been a case of "it's easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission" in the sense that things just kept happening, things that people in charge knew were wrong, and did nothing about it. Only after getting caught do we get these crocodile tears from the US administration. It's an insult to the Iraqis, I think.
Ellester Posted May 12, 2004 Author Posted May 12, 2004 It's an insult to the Iraqis, I think. Actually I think it Life is like a clam. Years of filtering crap then some bastard cracks you open and scrapes you into its damned mouth, end of story. - Steven Erikson
Meshugger Posted May 23, 2004 Posted May 23, 2004 The whole Iraq-thingie is an utter joke. At first, Bush says that "You can make no difference between Saddam and Bin Laden", pushing away the Afghanistan issue (which i supported) from the daily agenda. Suddenly, Saddam is the worst threat to global society and apparantly he has a sh1tload of WMD that the U.N. inspectors seemed to have missed. No WMD are yet to be found, and now Bush is using "the Iraqi peoples freedom"-rhethoric to save his own sorry ass. Fighting for the Iraqi peoples right to democracy, yeah right. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
Chi`ara Posted May 24, 2004 Posted May 24, 2004 I'll keep my opinion on America in Iraq private, but FYI, some of the info in this docment is pushing the truth, breaking it entirely in places and taking extra credit where none is really due: 4.5 million Iraqi citizens were without clean drinking water for 12 years because the Americans blew it up in the Gulf war. This also applies to sewage systems. There wasn't a problem with them anywhere in Iraq until the last war and power, too - it was all blown up over a decade ago. Very hard to rebuild. Municipal (or other governmental) elections are not yet taking place in Iraq. NONE whatsoever have taken place. They are scheduled to start on or after June 30. The councils are interim bodies. Students where schooling was available were taught sanitation before America/the UN/Red Cross/etc. came in. You know, they weren't walking around without a clue as to hygeine just because their leader was a jerk. Girls were already permitted to attend school. It's the establishment and attendance of schools in rural areas that was and is still a problem for children in Iraq, male and female. "It's about time?" Women were never denied education. Iraq is not Afghanistan. Sure, you can play on some people's ignorance of what Iraq was before the war, but some of this is downright inaccurate and corrections are in order.
Judge Hades Posted May 24, 2004 Posted May 24, 2004 We had no justification to invade Iraq and we can't afford to rebuld that country. The US can't even take care of its own citizens therefore we shouldn't try to take care of other people until we can.
Ellester Posted May 25, 2004 Author Posted May 25, 2004 I initially protested the war in Iraq, until I heard all the Iraqi people in America who were pushing the US to invade Iraq. They were disappointed that the US didn Life is like a clam. Years of filtering crap then some bastard cracks you open and scrapes you into its damned mouth, end of story. - Steven Erikson
Ellester Posted May 25, 2004 Author Posted May 25, 2004 Sure, you can play on some people's ignorance of what Iraq was before the war, but some of this is downright inaccurate and corrections are in order. Actually it Life is like a clam. Years of filtering crap then some bastard cracks you open and scrapes you into its damned mouth, end of story. - Steven Erikson
Blarghagh Posted May 25, 2004 Posted May 25, 2004 I always find it interesting that Operation Iraqi Liberation is abbreviated as OIL. (Actually, it's Operation Iraqi Freedom, but it's not far from it)
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