The game looks and feels abysmal in every way

[Malignacious]

 

Anyway. Yeah, I really hope they work on the animations and how they're used in the game/incorporated with game logic, as well. They really have a long way to go before the game is going to come off as polished, there's no doubt about that. I also definitely wish that they could have used some of the animation tech used in DS3 to create location dependent deflection animation, better control over how the spells are cast, and how the movement correspond with the actual magic that's cast (this is already fairly well done, but needs to be tweaked). And also that melee stances and combat animation would have loops with small variations on each cycle, and things of that sort (this is possible because the animations are from 3d models, not 2d sprites - and it is a disappointment that this is apparently not a focus).

 

Exactly!

See, it wasn't that hard, you know more about this than I do.

Many people on this forum just don't appreciate how the game looks and feels for people who are not engrossed and personally invested in it.

[Malignacious]

As for the classic and persistent beta excuse.

I really want to make it clear to people that I've been involved in a lot of betas and never ever has a game rectified critical problems when designated as "beta", at which point I bailed the sinking ship.

 

So, several things could be going on here:

 

1. Developers made a huge nomenclature mistake by calling it a beta; this clearly is a pre-alpha level of quality

 

2. This really is beta and developers are so close to its product they don't see how dreadful it is, this is further helped by the delusional nostalgia-fetish people who snarl at everyone not in the bubble

 

3. Developers have awakened from their stupor and will postpone the game by at least 6 months and make sure that people who are not close to it take a look at it...I don't know...have some kind of QA department!

[Althernai]

1. Developers made a huge nomenclature mistake by calling it a beta; this clearly is a pre-alpha level of quality

No. Their nomenclature is standard for the industry (take a look at the wiki). "Pre-alpha" builds (if there are any) generally do not compile without a lot of effort and they certainly do not run except maybe for very short tests. Alpha versions compile and run, but they are missing features (not in the sense of having placeholders for assets, but rather with the code that would handle the asset or placeholder simply being absent) and are usually unstable. What you see with the PoE beta is precisely a beta: it compiles and runs mostly (though not entirely) without crashing, but there is a general lack of polish as well as some placeholders.

 

Also, as many people have said in different forms, the things you are talking about will not make or break the game. It would be nice if they managed to make the combat animations look good, but it would not be a big deal if they do not. Nobody ever said "You know what I remember about Baldur's Gate 2? It had great combat animations!" The interface should not degrade the gameplay (e.g. the colors should be fixed and so on), but beyond that it's all bells and whistles -- if we have them, good, if not, it's OK.

[Messier-31]

Complain when it's done, and give credit to the lads with real feedback.

 

Also, this thread makes me chuckle so...

[Malignacious]

Regarding the potential scripted death animations, can we at least have different ones for different types of finishers?

For example, Soul Ignition would have a burning/dissolving effect(bluish ethereal fire) from within, fire attacks/spells would have a flailing/turning into charcoal effect, two handed weapons would have dismemberment, bows and firearms would have knockback effect, and so on...

 

Do I even have to state how such things would insanely enhance the enjoyment of the game?

 

Are you gonna snarl at me now because I don't have standards in gaming from over 14 years ago?

Edited September 26, 2014 by Malignacious

[nipsen]

 

Are you gonna snarl at me now because I don't have standards in gaming from over 14 years ago?

Yes! Scram, pipsqueak!

[PrimeJunta]

Retro game is retro. Scandalous.

[gkathellar]

Regarding the potential scripted death animations, can we at least have different ones for different types of finishers?

 

Advice: If you have actual suggestions, you may want to post them in a non-caustic thread focused around those suggestions.

 

Although I still don't know how this can bother you so much, since without the beta you're clearly just getting all this from youtube videos.

[nipsen]

 

Retro game is retro. Scandalous.

Oh so PoE was supposed to be retro game? I didn't know this. I was under the impression it will be a modern game that's a tribute to IE games. That changes some things.

 

I don't really want to stop anyone when they're so well on their way with their rants. But in the last update, with v-sync on, etc., things do look considerably less horrible than they did in the last version.

 

But I hope they're going to introduce random shifts to the animation rotation for each punch animation. And that there is going to be hit-dependent and better timed hurt-animation, some flair and different slashes and punches.

 

This isn't exactly the core of the game, though.

[Infinitron]

mah ragdoll physics

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66120-is-there-gonna-be-rag-doll-physics/

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66108-will-pillars-of-eternity-have-better-combat-system-than-dragon-age-origins/

 

What an amusingly successful troll.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Infinitron

[Malignacious]

This isn't exactly the core of the game, though.

 

It should be, to avoid the stark contrast of decrepitude it will create when compared to every other game made in the last 10 years.

And that comparison is done automatically by our brains accustomed to modern standards.

[illathid]

Regarding the potential scripted death animations, can we at least have different ones for different types of finishers?

For example, Soul Ignition would have a burning/dissolving effect(bluish ethereal fire) from within, fire attacks/spells would have a flailing/turning into charcoal effect, two handed weapons would have dismemberment, bows and firearms would have knockback effect, and so on...

 

Do I even have to state how such things would insanely enhance the enjoyment of the game?

 

Are you gonna snarl at me now because I don't have standards in gaming from over 14 years ago?

Actually, Fallout had these 17 years ago:

 

While little details like these aren't bad to have, they certainly don't make or break a game. But then again, I love playing WWII games that still use NATO counters instead of models...

[Malignacious]

Actually, Fallout had these 17 years ago: 

 

OK, so what is the budget comparison between the two?

Although, since now we have far more advanced and user-friendly tools for creating games I'm not sure it could be even compared.

[illathid]

According to Wikipedia, Fallout's budget was $3,000,000 in 1997, which when adjusted for inflation gives us $4,445,831.

 

However, animating sprites takes a lot less work than trying to do the same thing with 3d models.

[nipsen]

 

This isn't exactly the core of the game, though.

 

It should be, to avoid the stark contrast of decrepitude it will create when compared to every other game made in the last 10 years.

And that comparison is done automatically by our brains accustomed to modern standards.

 

The thing is, you're not appreciating some of the things the 2d/3d system allows. For example how the spell-casting is scripted in three stages to fit with the timing of the three cast stages, the type of cast (fireball is different from necrotic lance, etc., and the spell animation actually comes from the magician's hands at the time of the cast), and the direction (rolling fire isn't going to originate from a ball of magic in front of the caster, and then home in on the target from there - instead the magician is going to turn and cast).

 

In Fallout, there's a single shot animation determined to go off. And a response animation that varies depending on the impact. It's played back the same way every time, it doesn't care if the targets are far off or close together, etc. It's just that one animation.

 

You would see it instantly if you put PoE next to Fallout2.

 

And there are a few other in-game spline-corrected animation like the magician casts that are already in the game. But the system allows things like that. Because the characters are 3d and collapsed to look like 2d, they're not actually sprites. And by the looks of it, this is clearly being worked on. So..

 

Still -- this isn't the most important part of the game. It'd be nice to have (although apparently the high fidelity folks don't seem to notice the changes already in the game compared to for example IWD2) - but it's not critical, is it. Compared to game-stoppers like disappearing inventory, encounter balancing, writing, etc.

 

I do hope they'll be working on it, though..

Edited September 26, 2014 by nipsen

[Malignacious]

It just dawned on me that Obsidian did indeed make a game with almost exactly the same combat system where characters perform actions in a pseudo turn-based manner. 

It's called Knights of the Old Republic 2.

 

And guess what, it was a damn fine game, because characters were not frozen between actions; they actually had varied animations between each action and depending on the equipped weapons, and everything was very smooth and clear.

 

So, the complete opposite of what we have in Pillars of Eternity.

[Lephys]

As for the classic and persistent beta excuse.

I really want to make it clear to people that I've been involved in a lot of betas and never ever has a game rectified critical problems when designated as "beta", at which point I bailed the sinking ship.

Have you ever seen a low-budget Kickstarter beta from a development studio usually working directly under a publisher with a giant budget? If not, what do you really have as a reference? High-dollar betas?

 

Did you see the Wasteland 2 beta early on? "Everyone" was complaining about how bad it looked, and how incomplete it was, etc. And now, the same people are all "CROIKEY!" when they see the patches and improvements that were laid upon it.

 

Arguing over semantics is kind of ridiculous. There's no specific amount of polish at which something's legitimately a beta. If it's after your alpha version, and you're testing it with a bunch of people and changing things like crazy, it's a beta test.

 

Pretty much all the Kickstarters have been doing the production timeline a little differently from "usual" game timelines. That, and 80% of the betas you typically see are really just "hey, a bunch of people! Play this game early, for lots of publicity, and help us iron out a few bugs and stress test things! 8D!"

[Failion]

I complain when the game is done. Divinity original sin beta was utter trash when released though it was solid game. Didn't play beta build of wasteland 2 but it was probably trash also now its at least solid 6-7/10 game. Now lets see if obsidian can polish a turd into something good or fail catastrophically. 

Edited September 26, 2014 by Failion

[nipsen]

 

Arguing over semantics is kind of ridiculous. There's no specific amount of polish at which something's legitimately a beta. If it's after your alpha version, and you're testing it with a bunch of people and changing things like crazy, it's a beta test.

 

.."beta" is taken to be a lot of different things nowadays, though. Once upon a time, alpha meant "required features complete, but unstable, UI still makeshift", etc. Beta would mean something like "Functional for users through UI, but unstable".

 

With PoE, my impression was - until someone started talking about tossing out the attribute system, at least - that the beta was on an engine that was functionally complete, main feature locked, but with various bugs to be sorted out, placeholder resources, graphical glitches.

 

Josh also hinted that he wanted to hear suggestions for new feats people wanted to see.

 

So if you take that together with what I said about how the engine is put together above, you could maybe infer that one of the (or maybe the only) non feature locked area of the game is character animation and abilities/moves.

 

They also did make quite a few improvements with the update that went live.. yesterday, or something like that. Otherwise I wouldn't have suggested that it's likely the animation and so on is going to be improved.

 

Suggestions for feats and bug reports seem to be few, and random complaining about nothing relevant seems to be frequent, is all I'm saying.

[NWN_babaYaga]

Honestly what the OP and the other sharp_dude showed is just lack of respect and decency. When someone pretends to know so much about development or gaming he she should know a beta is not a complete representation and a beta is meant for getting as much feedback as possible. Constructive criticm is the key point here. even you paid for the beta doesnt means it´s just fun and most i think understood that fairly well. The new beta build seems to be a very good step forward and shows that obsidian is on the right track which i personaly never questioned. So we might check back once the game is ready and see what OP and other chooson will say then!

[Lephys]

*shrug* @nipsen:

 

I always just thought "feature locked" meant "We're not adding in mounts, or a new class, or new mechanics and/or features."

 

Polishing animations and/or tweaking existing things, to me, in no way insinuates that features were not locked.

 

But, that's kind of just me assuming, so that may not be what devs mean by the term.

[GreyFox]

Honestly I hope the game does have decent death animations and enemies stay on the ground and expire some time after death and not like ghosts...

 

Also many others have been annoying by the idle characters and have state numerous times that the game needs more combat animations and "busy" animations. As it stands now it looks pretty lame without hit reactions or any sort of filler animations and no "guard" animation to show a readied state.

[Malignacious]

Polishing animations 

You mean creating animations from scratch...

[Fatback]

I'm not sure if you know how easy it is to import animations into unity the code is prob already in just commented out. You could add animations and un comment code for the entire game in one day. This is for 1 person he might have to skip lunch.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Fatback

[Azrael Ultima]

 

So....I'm guessing you've never heard of a beta then?

 

Beta is almost a finished product, this is pre-alpha level of quality.

 

Beta has no clear definition. A game is in beta when the developer decides that it is.

 

Also, all of your complaints are things that are actually fairly easy to change once they are done and are non-essential to testing the mechanics of the game, so integrating them tends to be a low priority task.