Drama in indy gaming and games journalism

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

The gaming media is actually the Anti-Monitor.

 

[Volourn]

"I don't disagree that GG needs industry support, but Obsidian isn't the right people for it. I agree with KaineParker that the media already treats Obsidian unfairly. I think it is because Obsidian is already one of the most "artistic" developers, but not pushing the "right" message with their writing gifts."

 

FALSE.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

"FALSE."

 

No.

[Volourn]

Yes

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

"Yes"

 

No.

[BruceVC]

Maybe the reason that Obsidian doesn't openly support GG is that they fundamentally don't support it because they feel the way Zoe and others have been treated is worse than any perceived outrage certain gamers feel  due to the subjective definition of a word?

 

Did it ever occur to you guys that maybe they just think GG is ultimately a flawed initiative?

Edited September 24, 2014 by BruceVC

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Or they could be busy working on making games. Or Obsidian could be made up of different individuals with different opinions. Or they don't want to stir the pot. Or Josh Sawyer is busy sacrificing grognards to the Dark God of Balance. Or any number of reasons why.

 

I would point out that you're making a strawman argument again, and the same one you've been making, but I'm pretty sure you're either trolling or incredibly obtuse so I won't bother.

[BruceVC]

Or they could be busy working on making games. Or Obsidian could be made up of different individuals with different opinions. Or they don't want to stir the pot. Or Josh Sawyer is busy sacrificing grognards to the Dark God of Balance. Or any number of reasons why.

 

I would point out that you're making a strawman argument again, and the same one you've been making, but I'm pretty sure you're either trolling or incredibly obtuse so I won't bother.

 

You welcome to point out I am making a strawman but it would be wrong

 

A point was raised that Obsidian should support GG and a whole load of reasons were given why they should or shouldn't. Except the obvious  reason that maybe Obsidian doesn't support it because they think the entire GG initiative is completely misplaced....or maybe ...just maybe Obsidian also believes in certain points around transformation in the gaming industry and GG does more harm than good as it distracts the discussion with all this " accurate information about the situation"

 

Not everyone automatically thinks GG is a great idea KP

[Malcador]

I think the idea Obsidian doesn't really care outweighs whatever fantasy you wish to have, Bruce.

[BruceVC]

I think the idea Obsidian doesn't really care outweighs whatever fantasy you wish to have, Bruce.

 

 

And that's the nice thing about these forums, we are all entitled to our opinions. And maybe you right

[Volourn]

"Not everyone automatically thinks GG is a great idea KP"

 

Smart people do. Down what hateful bigots like Zoe, Anita and the other hateful people. That includes Bruce who hates white male gamers just ebcause they're white male gamers and then turns arounds and bash all other gamers who including women, blacks, and others because they have the GALL to support white male gamers and the term gamer which is for ALL gamers. Not just one group.

 

 

LONG LIVE GAMERS! DOOM TO ANTI GAMERS!

Edited September 24, 2014 by Volourn

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

Or they could be busy working on making games. Or Obsidian could be made up of different individuals with different opinions. Or they don't want to stir the pot. Or Josh Sawyer is busy sacrificing grognards to the Dark God of Balance. Or any number of reasons why.

 

I would point out that you're making a strawman argument again, and the same one you've been making, but I'm pretty sure you're either trolling or incredibly obtuse so I won't bother.

You welcome to point out I am making a strawman but it would be wrong

 

A point was raised that Obsidian should support GG and a whole load of reasons were given why they should or shouldn't. Except the obvious reason that maybe Obsidian doesn't support it because they think the entire GG initiative is completely misplaced....or maybe ...just maybe Obsidian also believes in certain points around transformation in the gaming industry and GG does more harm than good as it distracts the discussion with all this " accurate information about the situation"

 

Not everyone automatically thinks GG is a great idea KP

Or Chris Avellone ate everyone at Obsidian. We don't know why Obsidian hasn't addressed GamerGate, and any attempts to guess why is just pulling stuff out your ass.

 

As to your strawman, you keep misrepresenting what people are bothered about. And that somehow if you are pro GamerGate you condone harassing people.

 

Fundamentally GamerGate is about dissatisfaction with gaming journalists. If you're going to argue against it, at least have the decency to address what it is actually about.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Or they could be busy working on making games. Or Obsidian could be made up of different individuals with different opinions. Or they don't want to stir the pot. Or Josh Sawyer is busy sacrificing grognards to the Dark God of Balance. Or any number of reasons why.

 

I would point out that you're making a strawman argument again, and the same one you've been making, but I'm pretty sure you're either trolling or incredibly obtuse so I won't bother.

You welcome to point out I am making a strawman but it would be wrong

 

A point was raised that Obsidian should support GG and a whole load of reasons were given why they should or shouldn't. Except the obvious reason that maybe Obsidian doesn't support it because they think the entire GG initiative is completely misplaced....or maybe ...just maybe Obsidian also believes in certain points around transformation in the gaming industry and GG does more harm than good as it distracts the discussion with all this " accurate information about the situation"

 

Not everyone automatically thinks GG is a great idea KP

Or Chris Avellone ate everyone at Obsidian. We don't know why Obsidian hasn't addressed GamerGate, and any attempts to guess why is just pulling stuff out your ass.

 

As to your strawman, you keep misrepresenting what people are bothered about. And that somehow if you are pro GamerGate you condone harassing people.

 

Fundamentally GamerGate is about dissatisfaction with gaming journalists. If you're going to argue against it, at least have the decency to address what it is actually about.

 

 

 

 

Of course I am not saying everyone on GG has the same motives. There are some legitimate points raised by some people on it. But unfortunately you have your extremists along with your moderates. So many people won't be associated with it because of the extremist element

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

 

 

Or they could be busy working on making games. Or Obsidian could be made up of different individuals with different opinions. Or they don't want to stir the pot. Or Josh Sawyer is busy sacrificing grognards to the Dark God of Balance. Or any number of reasons why.

 

I would point out that you're making a strawman argument again, and the same one you've been making, but I'm pretty sure you're either trolling or incredibly obtuse so I won't bother.

You welcome to point out I am making a strawman but it would be wrong

 

A point was raised that Obsidian should support GG and a whole load of reasons were given why they should or shouldn't. Except the obvious reason that maybe Obsidian doesn't support it because they think the entire GG initiative is completely misplaced....or maybe ...just maybe Obsidian also believes in certain points around transformation in the gaming industry and GG does more harm than good as it distracts the discussion with all this " accurate information about the situation"

 

Not everyone automatically thinks GG is a great idea KP

Or Chris Avellone ate everyone at Obsidian. We don't know why Obsidian hasn't addressed GamerGate, and any attempts to guess why is just pulling stuff out your ass.

 

As to your strawman, you keep misrepresenting what people are bothered about. And that somehow if you are pro GamerGate you condone harassing people.

 

Fundamentally GamerGate is about dissatisfaction with gaming journalists. If you're going to argue against it, at least have the decency to address what it is actually about.

 

 

Of course I am not saying everyone on GG has the same motives. There are some legitimate points raised by some people on it. But unfortunately you have your extremists along with your moderates. So many people won't be associated with it because of the extremist element

And the extremists have been condemned here, so why keep bringing them up?

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

Or they could be busy working on making games. Or Obsidian could be made up of different individuals with different opinions. Or they don't want to stir the pot. Or Josh Sawyer is busy sacrificing grognards to the Dark God of Balance. Or any number of reasons why.

 

I would point out that you're making a strawman argument again, and the same one you've been making, but I'm pretty sure you're either trolling or incredibly obtuse so I won't bother.

You welcome to point out I am making a strawman but it would be wrong

 

A point was raised that Obsidian should support GG and a whole load of reasons were given why they should or shouldn't. Except the obvious reason that maybe Obsidian doesn't support it because they think the entire GG initiative is completely misplaced....or maybe ...just maybe Obsidian also believes in certain points around transformation in the gaming industry and GG does more harm than good as it distracts the discussion with all this " accurate information about the situation"

 

Not everyone automatically thinks GG is a great idea KP

Or Chris Avellone ate everyone at Obsidian. We don't know why Obsidian hasn't addressed GamerGate, and any attempts to guess why is just pulling stuff out your ass.

 

As to your strawman, you keep misrepresenting what people are bothered about. And that somehow if you are pro GamerGate you condone harassing people.

 

Fundamentally GamerGate is about dissatisfaction with gaming journalists. If you're going to argue against it, at least have the decency to address what it is actually about.

 

 

Of course I am not saying everyone on GG has the same motives. There are some legitimate points raised by some people on it. But unfortunately you have your extremists along with your moderates. So many people won't be associated with it because of the extremist element

And the extremists have been condemned here, so why keep bringing them up?

 

 

Now that's a strawman, I thought we were talking about why Obsidian doesn't actively support GG? I gave you a reason why, now you asking why am I bringing it up because "that has already been condemneD" Your point has nothing to do why Obsidian may or may not support GG

Edited September 24, 2014 by BruceVC

[licketysplit]

Maybe the reason that Obsidian doesn't openly support GG is that they fundamentally don't support it because they feel the way Zoe and others have been treated is worse than any perceived outrage certain gamers feel  due to the subjective definition of a word?

 

Did it ever occur to you guys that maybe they just think GG is ultimately a flawed initiative?

 

I think they're smarter than that.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or they could be busy working on making games. Or Obsidian could be made up of different individuals with different opinions. Or they don't want to stir the pot. Or Josh Sawyer is busy sacrificing grognards to the Dark God of Balance. Or any number of reasons why.

 

I would point out that you're making a strawman argument again, and the same one you've been making, but I'm pretty sure you're either trolling or incredibly obtuse so I won't bother.

You welcome to point out I am making a strawman but it would be wrong

 

A point was raised that Obsidian should support GG and a whole load of reasons were given why they should or shouldn't. Except the obvious reason that maybe Obsidian doesn't support it because they think the entire GG initiative is completely misplaced....or maybe ...just maybe Obsidian also believes in certain points around transformation in the gaming industry and GG does more harm than good as it distracts the discussion with all this " accurate information about the situation"

 

Not everyone automatically thinks GG is a great idea KP

Or Chris Avellone ate everyone at Obsidian. We don't know why Obsidian hasn't addressed GamerGate, and any attempts to guess why is just pulling stuff out your ass.

 

As to your strawman, you keep misrepresenting what people are bothered about. And that somehow if you are pro GamerGate you condone harassing people.

 

Fundamentally GamerGate is about dissatisfaction with gaming journalists. If you're going to argue against it, at least have the decency to address what it is actually about.

 

Of course I am not saying everyone on GG has the same motives. There are some legitimate points raised by some people on it. But unfortunately you have your extremists along with your moderates. So many people won't be associated with it because of the extremist element

And the extremists have been condemned here, so why keep bringing them up?

Now that's a strawman, I thought we were talking about why Obsidian doesn't actively support GG? I gave you a reason why, now you asking why am I bringing it up because "that has already been condemneD" Your point has nothing to do why Obsidian may or may not support GG

You aren't very good with English. We were talking about how you keep misrepresenting what GamerGate is about, not why Obsidian hasn't said anything about it.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or they could be busy working on making games. Or Obsidian could be made up of different individuals with different opinions. Or they don't want to stir the pot. Or Josh Sawyer is busy sacrificing grognards to the Dark God of Balance. Or any number of reasons why.

 

I would point out that you're making a strawman argument again, and the same one you've been making, but I'm pretty sure you're either trolling or incredibly obtuse so I won't bother.

You welcome to point out I am making a strawman but it would be wrong

 

A point was raised that Obsidian should support GG and a whole load of reasons were given why they should or shouldn't. Except the obvious reason that maybe Obsidian doesn't support it because they think the entire GG initiative is completely misplaced....or maybe ...just maybe Obsidian also believes in certain points around transformation in the gaming industry and GG does more harm than good as it distracts the discussion with all this " accurate information about the situation"

 

Not everyone automatically thinks GG is a great idea KP

Or Chris Avellone ate everyone at Obsidian. We don't know why Obsidian hasn't addressed GamerGate, and any attempts to guess why is just pulling stuff out your ass.

 

As to your strawman, you keep misrepresenting what people are bothered about. And that somehow if you are pro GamerGate you condone harassing people.

 

Fundamentally GamerGate is about dissatisfaction with gaming journalists. If you're going to argue against it, at least have the decency to address what it is actually about.

 

Of course I am not saying everyone on GG has the same motives. There are some legitimate points raised by some people on it. But unfortunately you have your extremists along with your moderates. So many people won't be associated with it because of the extremist element

And the extremists have been condemned here, so why keep bringing them up?

Now that's a strawman, I thought we were talking about why Obsidian doesn't actively support GG? I gave you a reason why, now you asking why am I bringing it up because "that has already been condemneD" Your point has nothing to do why Obsidian may or may not support GG

You aren't very good with English. We were talking about how you keep misrepresenting what GamerGate is about, not why Obsidian hasn't said anything about it.

 

 

Incorrect,  since I started posting today I have only raised issues about why Obsidian isn't active on GG. Just because you decided to change the discussion halfway through and now make it about "why am I misrepresenting what GG is about " doesn't change the reason I made the original point

 

So once again nice Strawman

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

No strawman from me Bruce. I can't be blamed for your inability to be clear.

 

I've already provided a counterpoint to your assumption, to which you replied with a very vague condemnation of GamerGate's extremists. If you can't be bothered to address your strawman, don't blame me.

Edited September 24, 2014 by KaineParker

[JadedWolf]

... And lo, there was much strife among the Obsidianites. Though the Great Obsidian had not shown favour to either side, both side claimed to see signs of their deity's displeasure at the other side, and thus they hardened their hearts at one another.

 

And thus began the great schism.

[BruceVC]

... And lo, there was much strife among the Obsidianites. Though the Great Obsidian had not shown favour to either side, both side claimed to see signs of their deity's displeasure at the other side, and thus they hardened their hearts at one another.

 

And thus began the great schism.

 

 

Funny

[aluminiumtrioxid]

I've already provided a counterpoint to your assumption, to which you replied with a very vague condemnation of GamerGate's extremists. If you can't be bothered to address your strawman, don't blame me.

 

Actually "for many people, the fact that GG has its roots in what's widely perceived as an organized harrassment campaign against Zoe Quinn is enough to turn them off the whole movement on principle, regardless of what it's morphed into since (which is not necessarily a very rational stance, but there you have it)" is a perfectly valid argument on Bruce's part, which you haven't addressed thus far.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

I've already provided a counterpoint to your assumption, to which you replied with a very vague condemnation of GamerGate's extremists. If you can't be bothered to address your strawman, don't blame me.

Actually "for many people, the fact that GG has its roots in what's widely perceived as an organized harrassment campaign against Zoe Quinn is enough to turn them off the whole movement on principle, regardless of what it's morphed into since (which is not necessarily a very rational stance, but there you have it)" is a perfectly valid argument on Bruce's part, which you haven't addressed thus far.

Too bad he didn't make that argument then.

 

Maybe the reason that Obsidian doesn't openly support GG is that they fundamentally don't support it because they feel the way Zoe and others have been treated is worse than any perceived outrage certain gamers feel due to the subjective definition of a word?

 

Did it ever occur to you guys that maybe they just think GG is ultimately a flawed initiative?

His argument was that Obsidian might not have come out in support of GG because stuff. I listed several different reasons why they might not have come out in support, and made the statement that trying to come up with a reason why they haven't is folly.

 

Try again.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

I listed several different reasons why they might not have come out in support, and made the statement that trying to come up with a reason why they haven't is folly.

 

 

I'll join in the wild mass guessing regardless, and hazard the guess that they're of the eminently reasonable "oh my god, this whole thing is dumb" opinion.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

 

 

I listed several different reasons why they might not have come out in support, and made the statement that trying to come up with a reason why they haven't is folly.

 

I'll join in the wild mass guessing regardless, and hazard the guess that they're of the eminently reasonable "oh my god, this whole thing is dumb" opinion.

Nice dodge.