The August Update creeping ever closer - hopes and fears

[Lephys]

Yeah, I know that could get pretty deep and complex, but I'd be happy with just anything functional, really. Even a really basic implementation, instead of just "if you have infravision, enemies are easy to see, on the screen, and if you don't, they're harder to see, but mousing-over them still lets you know everything anyway, and you can pause the game, etc..."

 

I digress, though, as I think it's a bit late in PoE's development for something like this to go in. That, and it probably would've never made a high-enough priority rank with the given budget.

 

Just something I'd like to see in a cRPG.

[Silent Winter]

Uh-oh.

 

My machine is beginning to show its age now, putting it the other side of the five year margin. That the potential issue is RAM is a pain, because I had D:OS and it was absolutely unplayable on this computer, since I mostly game on windows XP (32bit). Hopefully it doesn't take too long for the Linux port, which obviously doesn't have the same RAM restrictions.

 

Many people will chime in with "Why the hell are you still using XP?", but when you learn your way around one system and then three more come out before you've noticed, upgrading is difficult to stomach. For that reason most of the time its easier for me to get things working on XP then it would be to get them working on windows 8.

 

I was still on xp-32 on a 7 year old machine .... until the mobo died a few months back.  RAM was the only drawback, and that only at render-times.  Games I was playing were of the BG-NWN2 range - graphics card (9600gt) was all that was pushed a little for the latter)

Going to have to get a win-7 disc when I finally get enough money to build a new machine (been doing part-time work in addition to my job so I'm hoping it'll be before PoE is released).  Got win-7 on the new laptop (whose fore-runner also died this year) and it's a relatively small jump from xp to that (don't fancy win-8   )

 

Edit: must remember that closing a bracket after an '8' leads to a ' '

Edited August 11, 2014 by Silent Winter

[Lephys]

I've got Windows 8 on my laptop, and I don't really mind it after getting used to it. And by that I mean, "figuring out how to not ever have to use the 'THIS WAS ARBITRARILY DESIGNED ONLY TO EVER BE FUNCTIONAL/INTUITIVE ON A TOUCH-SCREEN DEVICE, 8D!!!!' portion of it. I pretty much just use the "desktop app," which is basically just Windows 7.

 

If you ever do have to upgrade from XP, Windows 7 is really not bad at all. I built a new machine before 7 was out, though, and tried to overcome the 32-bit thing by going with XP 64-bit edition... that was a bit of a mistake, heh. It really still wasn't THAT bad. I got all my games and such to work with it. But, every time I tried to install something new on it, it took some finnagling with drivers and such to get things to cooperate.

 

Really, though, 7 is pretty straight-forward, and will let you step into the 64-bit world.

 

Also, just as another upgrading tip: You don't necessarily need the absolute awesomest model video card there is, as long as it's got as much video ram as you're willing to spend money on.

 

My desktop's still running a Radeon 5870, 2GB, and it still runs plenty of games smoothly on nice graphical settings.

[Koth]

With regards to the path finding issues. I'd be interested to learn what kind of pathing algorithm you're using. I'm assuming it's some variant of A*, but I'd be curious to learn what kinds of things factor into your heuristic?

 

Regards,

 

Koth

[Karkarov]

Many people will chime in with "Why the hell are you still using XP?", but when you learn your way around one system and then three more come out before you've noticed, upgrading is difficult to stomach. For that reason most of the time its easier for me to get things working on XP then it would be to get them working on windows 8.

Anything is easier to get working on Windows XP than Windows 8.... hell I would rather have Vista than 8.  You should definitely upgrade but when you do make sure to go to 7.

 

Also to expound on what Lephys said as well.  For Eternity I doubt you even need a video card.  I bet if you went with a Core i5 or i7 the on chip graphics would be more than enough.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Karkarov

[Kjaamor]

Really, though, 7 is pretty straight-forward, and will let you step into the 64-bit world.

 

Also, just as another upgrading tip: You don't necessarily need the absolute awesomest model video card there is, as long as it's got as much video ram as you're willing to spend money on.

 

My desktop's still running a Radeon 5870, 2GB, and it still runs plenty of games smoothly on nice graphical settings.

 

My housemate has 7 on the PC in the living room, and although I haven't done much twiddling behind the scenes, it looks substantially more comfy than the Windows OS's on either side of it. I'll probably go with 7, although I did promise myself that when this PC finally expired, I would make a full-time switch to Linux.

 

As for the video card, I was looking at this last night and was suprised to find that while my processor is obviously antiquated, my graphics card is relatively competitive for the price range. It's a Radeon 5670, which while nowhere near the forefront, was dirt cheap back then and it seems like the same money now doesn't buy much more than a 15-25% improvement - compared to the processor where the improvements are vast.

[Lephys]

^ Yeah, I would only be worried if you didn't have a dedicated card. It may not run on "Ultra" or whatever, but it should look pretty nice and run smoothly. But, if you ever DO feel the need to upgrade the card, you really don't have to spend the big bucks just to run games nicely, I've learned. You definitely don't want to skimp, because saving $30 isn't much if you have to replace it in a year instead of 2 or 3 (based on its ability to run the upcoming titles you want to play), but... just having a dedicated card with plenty of resources is way more important than having the absolute sparkliest model,

 

And yeah, if you can help it, don't go with 8. It's just... so arbitrarily designed. Not something you want, if you can help it. 7 isn't bad at all, though, if you're mainly just gaming. I can't vouch for using a bunch of specialty software or anything, as I mainly use mine to game.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Lephys

[Silent Winter]

^I'm using it on the laptop for general purpose: old-gaming, office, 3D-art, internet, etc

In terms of using the programs - no different from xp.  Installing is the only gotcha - if possible, do NOT install anything to 'Program Files' as it involves administrator privileges all the time (not just at install).

The other changes are mostly either cosmetic or what services run in the background (many of which I switch off as unnecessary).

[Lephys]

Forgot about the Program Files thing. Discovered that when I installed Arcanum, 8P

[Karkarov]

^ Yeah, I would only be worried if you didn't have a dedicated card. It may not run on "Ultra" or whatever, but it should look pretty nice and run smoothly. But, if you ever DO feel the need to upgrade the card, you really don't have to spend the big bucks just to run games nicely, I've learned. You definitely don't want to skimp, because saving $30 isn't much if you have to replace it in a year instead of 2 or 3 (based on its ability to run the upcoming titles you want to play), but... just having a dedicated card with plenty of resources is way more important than having the absolute sparkliest model,

 

And yeah, if you can help it, don't go with 8. It's just... so arbitrarily designed. Not something you want, if you can help it. 7 isn't bad at all, though, if you're mainly just gaming. I can't vouch for using a bunch of specialty software or anything, as I mainly use mine to game.

Dude the built in graphics on an i5 or i7 processor are probably stronger than that Radeon.

[Lephys]

I dunno if they'r quite that good. Possibly. Plus, the CPU doesn't come with an extra gig of dedicated GDDR, that I know of. Just sayin'...

[Kjaamor]

Technically speaking, the on-board graphics on the i5 clock in at about 70% of the power of the Radeon 5670, according to good old www.cpubenchmark.net.

 

As for the upgrades, I'm very happy with how the shopping has worked out for the 5670. In my experience of PCs generally, and this seems evidently the case for graphics cards as well, upgrading and replacing aren't nearly as crucial as people make out. In general, the guideline rule that the more you spend the less improvements you get holds true.

 

I.e. $50 gets you a 50% improvement on your baseline. $100 gets you a 75% improvement on your baseline. $200 gets you a 100% improvement on your baseline, etc.

 

So generally, unless you're desperately chasing the forefront of technology (and let's face it, most of us would prefer a house instead), the best bang for buck exists as the lower levels. That the 5670 still exists within the "high end" of graphics cards (admittedly at the bottom), despite being at the low end and costing £30 four years ago, is testament to the results of keeping things cheap. The other testament is that it has taken until 2014 before my PC from 2007 - and at the bottom of the market back then - was no longer satisfactory for my gaming needs.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Kjaamor

[Ineth]

That the 5670 still exists within the "high end" of graphics cards (admittedly at the bottom), despite being at the low end and costing £30 four years ago, is testament to the results of keeping things cheap.

 

Yep, cheapest card from high-end series is an excellent choice if you mostly want to play games like PE (or most GOG games, or Indie games, or similar).

 

Such a card will usually have all newest "feature capabilities", so you won't any time soon run into situations where a game you'd like to play needs an OpenGL/DirectX/ShaderModel version (or extension) that your card doesn't support.

 

What it will usually lack compared to its (much!) more expensive sibling cards from the same series, is their sheer amount of processing power and graphics memory. But you only need a lot of that, if you want to play demanding 3D triple-A games at big resolutions and highest graphics settings.

 

 

[Karkarov]

So generally, unless you're desperately chasing the forefront of technology (and let's face it, most of us would prefer a house instead), the best bang for buck exists as the lower levels. That the 5670 still exists within the "high end" of graphics cards (admittedly at the bottom), despite being at the low end and costing £30 four years ago, is testament to the results of keeping things cheap. The other testament is that it has taken until 2014 before my PC from 2007 - and at the bottom of the market back then - was no longer satisfactory for my gaming needs.

Very true.  I am using a mere single 670 GTX and can play almost everything on max settings and still score 30-50 FPS.  To give you an idea of how epic it is.... you can buy the newer and better version (770 GTX) for around 300.  Mine they don't even make anymore .

Edited August 12, 2014 by Karkarov

[5anitybane]

I am using a mere single 670 GTX and can play almost everything on max settings and still score 30-50 FPS.

Same here, can run ArmA 3 with everything - where possible - set to Ultra, can run Battlefield 4 maxed, and a bunch of other new games at high or slightly better in some departments (textures I can't push too far beyond hard). Amazing, the longevity of things once we ponder them, instead of riding the hype train and feeling we absolutely require cutting-edge differences we won't really notice too much of in the games themselves.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Indeed. Smart purchases of graphic cards can extend the life of your PC by as much as two years, no problem.

[5anitybane]

Yeah, I previously had a GTX460 for what I think was four or five years before I upgraded for no reason other than wanting shiny new performance (which was a stupid use of $2000 in hindsight, but youth does strange things to the mind - yes, 26 isn't old, but mentally I aged too quick... anyway) and it ran plenty of things well enough. The problem I find, is people want the latest and greatest either for bragging rights, or because of some video rendering that makes their jaw drop when it shouldn't be the sole focus of a game to begin with. Unfortunately though, graphics seem to be taking priority over depth, design of game elements and mechanics and content, .

 

I still love a good text adventure from time to time.

Edited August 12, 2014 by 5anitybane

[Kjaamor]

I would argue that a good graphics card can give even longer given, as I say, that my motherboard and cpu were sold as clearance in 2007 because they weren't good enough for 2008 Q1's "entry range" - and that's entry range generally not just for gaming systems.

 

The Radeon 5670 was the third best thing that ever happened to a PC of mine.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Yeah, I previously had a GTX460 for what I think was four or five years before I upgraded for no reason other than wanting shiny new performance (which was a stupid use of $2000 in hindsight, but youth does strange things to the mind - yes, 26 isn't old, but mentally I aged too quick... anyway) and it ran plenty of things well enough. The problem I find, is people want the latest and greatest either for bragging rights, or because of some video rendering that makes their jaw drop when it shouldn't be the sole focus of a game to begin with. Unfortunately though, graphics seem to be taking priority over depth, design of game elements and mechanics and content, .

 

I still love a good text adventure from time to time.

 

I couldn't agree more. During the first decade of the third millennium games got almost obsessed with graphics and fast production (almost like the gaming industry crash and that ET-game in the '80s), but now, in 2014, things are shaping up, and I feel that gameplay has wrestled back its obvious place in the driver's seat of any game (perhaps, ironically, because of the app-market and all mobile devices), and of course the indie scene, with games like Minecraft.

[5anitybane]

I couldn't agree more. During the first decade of the third millennium games got almost obsessed with graphics and fast production (almost like the gaming industry crash and that ET-game in the '80s), but now, in 2014, things are shaping up, and I feel that gameplay has wrestled back its obvious place in the driver's seat of any game (perhaps, ironically, because of the app-market and all mobile devices), and of course the indie scene, with games like Minecraft.

In short, you should've stayed in Brisbane, .

 

In more detail, yeah, the indie scene is taking great shape, not even with games like Minecraft but because of the freedom this resurgence, perhaps heavily influenced by Minecraft, has created. No longer are people sitting behind their computer monitors making small mods and thinking immediately they can't make games and earn a living from their dream game. 2014 and the emergence of the indie scene (or should we call it travelling back in time?) has given people a push to create their own content, and whether it's poorly designed or the next game of the year, it's the beauty of all the content being created, all the dreams coming forth to just take a stab at design and/or development, that I love. I love seeing people go ahead and make their thoughts into functioning code, and being part of the sense of spirit with things such as KickStarter getting into the mix to really bring a good funding model and community support to new developments. I love being part of this independent development surge while I work on my own browser-based game as a side project, it fills me with a nice, warm feeling of togetherness, .

 

Side-note: I am not a hippie.

Edited August 12, 2014 by 5anitybane

[Nomadmerc]

I hope there will be wandering packs; mobs that have waypoints. General stuff that promotes randomness in gameplay so I can enjoy playing through the game many times.

[Lephys]

I hope there will be wandering packs; mobs that have waypoints. General stuff that promotes randomness in gameplay so I can enjoy playing through the game many times.

I do enjoy a good sprinkling of random.

[Nomadmerc]

Watching the live stream today; there are mobs that wander in patrol format---exciting.