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Gameplay video: Detailed Response

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Quite the mustache Odema has there.

Oops! lol nice catch.

 

What happens if you're a monk on that one scripted interaction, do you throw your caestus at him or something?

That dialogue option will probably be blacked out if you have no weapon equipped.

 

Of course, if monks in PoE are even remotely like monks in any other RPG ever, you won't want to fight bare-handed at level 1 anyway.

Edited by Stun

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ROFL. :lol:

 

I wonder if they'll touch up his portrait and give him red hair as well. They'll probably just change the description of Odema in the dialogue.

Edited by Hiro Protagonist II

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Interestingly, the wrong Caravan Man moustache-less portrait is among the char creation portraits shown in the Giantbomb vid, at 2:58.


*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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I think I recall Josh Sawyer saying that Calisca is using one of the default portraits for the demo. Perhaps that's what happened to Odema's mustache.

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Nothing gold can stay.

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As a munchkin power-gamer, I feel compelled to ask: Will I be able to kill Calisca before the end of that tutorial and steal her Flaming Weapon?

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As a munchkin power-gamer, I feel compelled to ask: Will I be able to kill Calisca before the end of that tutorial and steal her Flaming Weapon?

That would be her torch. 

Eh, I've killed for less... :fdevil:

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Nothing gold can stay.

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I really liked what I saw !

But I have some things I disliked :

- while in dialog everything is freezed, I know it was the case in old Infinity game, but PoE is much more dynamic and it feels very strange when everything is freezed in a long conversation.

- the barbarian default clothes are not really beautiful... The armor we briefly saw are much nicer.

- I want this game now !

Edited by L'invité

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But I have some things I disliked :

- while in dialog everything is freezed, I know it was the case in old Infinity game, but PoE is much more dynamic and it feels very strange when everything is freezed in a long conversation.

 

I have to disagree. When Skyrim came out, they bragged about how everything kept moving and playing along while convos were taking place, and it was not very nice at all. To me at least, it distracted me for what was being said, and graphically, you had bobbing helmets (that didn't come out right), swaying poles, and fluttering textures of all kinds, disturbing me big time.

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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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One thing that wasn't really clear for me was whether you could attempt attribute/skill checks if you didn't have enough points invested in them to succeed. Obviously this shouldn't be the case for everything (options dependent on Intellect, Perception and Lore should only be visible if you have enough points to make them appear since they denote concrete knowledge), but I don't see why you couldn't try to threaten someone or perform a physical task even if you didn't have a high enough attribute/skill to succeed. That's the way it was done in PS:T and NWN2.

Edited by Quetzalcoatl

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One thing that wasn't really clear for me was whether you could attempt attribute/skill checks if you didn't have enough points invested in them to succeed. Obviously this shouldn't be the case for everything (options dependent on Intellect, Perception and Lore should only be visible if you have enough points to make them appear since they denote concrete knowledge), but I don't see why you couldn't try to threaten someone or perform a physical task even if you didn't have a high enough attribute/skill to succeed. That's the way it was done in PS:T and NWN2.

 

Josh said that there is no randomness in conversations, just thresholds. With this in mind, the game is basically blocking any automatic failures, while in NWN2 you had at least a % chance to pass a check all the time.

 

You're right in that you still could give them as an option, but then you have to consider that in NWN2/Torment a success meant some benefit to the player while PoE is designed such that the context dictates whether an action is beneficial or not, regardless of availability, so in my mind that evens out.

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Another concern I have is there aren't very many enemies in the opening level, but I assume that is because of the difficulty setting. Looks like the game will probably need Hard or perhaps even Path of the Damned to have an IE like experience.

 

As far as I can remember, you can very well loose both companions during the prologue if you make bad choices. If additionally you don't play a combat class but a wizard or something with limited spells, I think the enemy count is fine as it is.

It's no surprise that it seems easy if the game is balanced around the worst case scenario and you are playing the best case scenario. Also, I feel like the wolves are strong enough when they murder your companion half way at the beginning.

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... There are no non-combat classes. Not-great-at-melee classes, sure. A L1 wizard still gets to pew-pew with his wand/stave/scepter, and should be far from useless once his 1 or 2 spells are spent. But yeah, going solo you'll have a harder time with a wizard than with a frontliner class that early in the game, I guess. Guess I'm tripping over semantics a bit.

Edited by Ark Evensong
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One thing that wasn't really clear for me was whether you could attempt attribute/skill checks if you didn't have enough points invested in them to succeed. Obviously this shouldn't be the case for everything (options dependent on Intellect, Perception and Lore should only be visible if you have enough points to make them appear since they denote concrete knowledge), but I don't see why you couldn't try to threaten someone or perform a physical task even if you didn't have a high enough attribute/skill to succeed. That's the way it was done in PS:T and NWN2.

 

Josh said that there is no randomness in conversations, just thresholds. With this in mind, the game is basically blocking any automatic failures, while in NWN2 you had at least a % chance to pass a check all the time.

 

You're right in that you still could give them as an option, but then you have to consider that in NWN2/Torment a success meant some benefit to the player while PoE is designed such that the context dictates whether an action is beneficial or not, regardless of availability, so in my mind that evens out.

 

Attribute/skill checks within dialogue were always non-randomized in PS:T and NWN2. Though you're right with your second point, I really like that PoE won't always have successful checks be automatically benificial.

 

Another nitpick: I noticed that the Glanfathan archer kept using his/her bow even when the player and Calisca engaged him in melee. I was kinda hoping it would be like in the BG games where archer enemies switched to a melee weapon as soon as you came close. Though that brings up another question: does attacking with a ranged weapon in melee result in an attack penalty, as was the case in the IE games?

Edited by Quetzalcoatl

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Also, I feel like the wolves are strong enough when they murder your companion half way at the beginning.

 

Heh, the wolves outside of Candlekeep eat pups like these for breakfast. But of course nobody's talking low-level BG1 difficulty here, besides, what we see in these demos is kind of the "tutorial" level.


Nothing gold can stay.

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Wow loved the video, really looking forward to it.

about the stats, LOVE IT! i love that we dont get a ton of points so thatbalot of our characters will eventually have the same stats. You want to go BIG in one stat and max it out? U can but it means that other stats are gonna suffer. You CAN still do multiple things ur just not gonna do them well. Im just giddy that i wont be the BEST of alot of things but that i have the option to be good at alot of things but i wont be the BEST at alot of things.

hehe im just so happy that i cant be really high in alot of points so that i really dont have any flaws

 

Also having low amount of atribute spending points means that each point counts and means more is what im gathering which is great. There are still alot of options, it just cuts back the options of doing ALOT of things and being just as good as someone who is only focused at 1 thing or just as good as.

 

Ok that super excited rant about the amount of atribute points is over, man i loved and got goose bumps watching that video. I just cant wait! And sigh i know everyone has a right to opionions but i felt sorry for obsidian the amount of hate u see in comments sections. Im glad the company is strong enough to be above that type of hate and i hope it doeant effect them on a personal level. I guess that labels me asa fanboy i guess.

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I can see the concern regarding the sameness of the attribute stat-block when you want to max out one stat. Looking at a bunch of 10's isn't very interesting. Sure, the player can drop one or two attributes below 10, and put those points in a secondary one, and it'll look much better. But there may be some threshold keeping the player from lowering attributes - "I don't have to be good at this, but I don't want to be bad at it."

 

Solution may be as simple as giving the player 20 attribute points at chargen, but have the attributes start at base 8 instead of 10.

 

Then again, that might skew the perceived average, and spending 3 points for little-to-no recognition may be worse than spending 1 point for little-to-no recognition, even if you do get almost 3 times as many points. (Assuming an 11 isn't going to open up a lot of options in dialogues.)

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Overall I'm pretty impressed it's exactly what was promised from a IE styled game with some modern conventions tossed in. I think I'm most impressed with the ability to have meaningful interactions with party members and how the scripted events work. I was least impressed with how crammed things feel in spaces. There seems to be a very linear path in each map with a lot of pretty stuff distracting you that you can't really explore. I feel like fights may start getting very claustrophobic once you start getting a full party of 6 on screen. I understand too that this a demo, but the "dungeon" or "ruins" seemed to only be a few rooms long and I'm sure the real game will be bigger, I just feel for some reason the maps were much smaller than I anticipated. Even in IWD 2 I recently was watching a lets play, and there seemed to be several ways across the map, and there was a lot more encounters between transitions. Still overall I'm pretty excited to see where this ends up. I also hope they get more dialog options. If I have to hear the NPC say OK or You got it every time I click something I'm gonna go bonkers. Especially with a full party.

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@ Sensuki or anyone else who knows

 

Are you sure that the flame effect is knockdown?  If so, it is quite odd.  

I'm pretty sure the flame effect is fire damage from the torch Calwhatsit is wielding.

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... There are no non-combat classes. Not-great-at-melee classes, sure. A L1 wizard still gets to pew-pew with his wand/stave/scepter, and should be far from useless once his 1 or 2 spells are spent. But yeah, going solo you'll have a harder time with a wizard than with a frontliner class that early in the game, I guess. Guess I'm tripping over semantics a bit.

 

Yeah, you're right. I was thinking about classes that can keep up at melee and take some punishment, so I should've written close-combat classes. Sometimes, the language barrier gets me as well, sorry.

 

 

Attribute/skill checks within dialogue were always non-randomized in PS:T and NWN2. Though you're right with your second point, I really like that PoE won't always have successful checks be automatically benificial.

 

I knew that the attribute checks where non-randomized, so given that there are no skills in Torment, thats true, but I always thought the skill checks in NWN2 were. Maybe I got that impression while playing NWN1 some weeks ago, as they are randomized there. You learn something new everyday I guess.

Edited by Doppelschwert

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I can see the concern regarding the sameness of the attribute stat-block when you want to max out one stat. Looking at a bunch of 10's isn't very interesting. Sure, the player can drop one or two attributes below 10, and put those points in a secondary one, and it'll look much better. But there may be some threshold keeping the player from lowering attributes - "I don't have to be good at this, but I don't want to be bad at it."

 

Solution may be as simple as giving the player 20 attribute points at chargen, but have the attributes start at base 8 instead of 10.

 

Then again, that might skew the perceived average, and spending 3 points for little-to-no recognition may be worse than spending 1 point for little-to-no recognition, even if you do get almost 3 times as many points. (Assuming an 11 isn't going to open up a lot of options in dialogues.)

Very true. Alot of people look at a 10 or 11 and dont get excited because its average and people focus on ur not getting a benefit but most of the time forget ur not getting a penalty either. So a 10 doesnt scream "awesomesause!" but at the same time u aren't BAD either. Your considered regular at that point.

 

By not giving us a lot (see i read the email lol) of atribute points, it's easier to put our character above the common man/woman in alot of ways that when we start out with a lot of points to spend, its easier to make our character wayyy above the common person thus easier to reconize that our character at the very beginning is above the common person in more ways in that its easy for us to get the "chosen one" feel without even be told.

This of course isn't badwrongfun but i'm just happy to see myself creating a character that is usually considered a regular person that is exceptional in just a few areas instead of being exceptional to a common person in most areas.

i guess best way to describe is i like the feeling at the beginning of morrowind where i am just considered an average person from the start who has to work my way up to godhood because the average bandit can put me down instead of the beginning of skyrim where our character is already stronger than the average person (aka wiping out a underground cavern full of zombies and bandits) with ease at very low levels without having to work my way up to being able to do it. I start off already above everyone else in skyrim whereas i start off as average in morrowind...

 

Sigh hope this makes sense. Im not saying its badwrongfun to have alot of atribute points, im just happy because it caters to how i like with low points (as in i usually run 15pt buy games or lower). People are okay not liking this, me i love it because its imho easier to define and see the difference in classes and roles who put points slightly different in other areas.

Edited by redneckdevil
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ok, can anyone tell me where are those videos you are talking about?

At Giant Bomb and IGN sites. Just type "Pillars of Eternity" in their search boxes and voila!

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Another concern I have is there aren't very many enemies in the opening level, but I assume that is because of the difficulty setting.

Or because it's the beginning of the game and you're a 1st level character who has not yet acquired a party of 6? Bg1 did it the same way. Once Imoen is handed to you, and you're in that first wilderness map, what do you face? Same single enemy simplicity. One wolf. And then one diseased gibberling (possibly 2), and if you scour the edges of the map, you might find....one black bear. Edited by Stun
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I'll echo Sensuki's statement, attribute points are a bit low. Why can't I be reasonably intelligent, fairly perceptive and good at people skills at the same time?

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"Lulz is not the highest aspiration of art and mankind, no matter what the Encyclopedia Dramatica says."

 

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