Shipping Physical Goods and Customs

[Gyges]

Ever since i first put money into this project and selected the signed collectors edition i have been wondering how the physical goods are gonna be shipped and how they will be "classified", for lack of a better word, during shipping. I'll explain why this is important, at least to me.

My country has a very low value treshold for importing foreign goods for personal use. Anything above about 35$ you have to pay a fee for clearing it through customs and some 25% of the goods' value. What exactly is going to determine the goods' value when i didn't directly purchase them? Is it going to be the total amount i pledged? Dear gods, the guys that gave 10k is in for a surprise then. Will the various items be designated a static value by either publisher or developer? Or will they be marked as "gifts" with or without a value stamped on the package?

[Elerond]

Ever since i first put money into this project and selected the signed collectors edition i have been wondering how the physical goods are gonna be shipped and how they will be "classified", for lack of a better word, during shipping. I'll explain why this is important, at least to me.

My country has a very low value treshold for importing foreign goods for personal use. Anything above about 35$ you have to pay a fee for clearing it through customs and some 25% of the goods' value. What exactly is going to determine the goods' value when i didn't directly purchase them? Is it going to be the total amount i pledged? Dear gods, the guys that gave 10k is in for a surprise then. Will the various items be designated a static value by either publisher or developer? Or will they be marked as "gifts" with or without a value stamped on the package?

 

If you live inside of EU then you will probably don't need to worry about tariffs as Paradox, which is PoE's publisher, is Swedish company and therefore they probably ship goods that going in EU from inside of boarders of EU, which mean that there will not be any tariffs or taxes. If you live outside of USA and EU then you are probably had to pay taxes and tariffs for that sum what Paradox ask  for collector edition and it shipping, which is probably about $150, which means that you will need to pay about $37.50 VAT and tariffs that your country asks. Of course depending on what courier Paradox uses there is change that your customs don't take your packet on checking and it comes to you free at charge (of course your duty as law binding citizen is to go and pay those fees anyway).

[Lephys]

How DARE people put a tariff on fun!

[Gyges]

 

Ever since i first put money into this project and selected the signed collectors edition i have been wondering how the physical goods are gonna be shipped and how they will be "classified", for lack of a better word, during shipping. I'll explain why this is important, at least to me.

My country has a very low value treshold for importing foreign goods for personal use. Anything above about 35$ you have to pay a fee for clearing it through customs and some 25% of the goods' value. What exactly is going to determine the goods' value when i didn't directly purchase them? Is it going to be the total amount i pledged? Dear gods, the guys that gave 10k is in for a surprise then. Will the various items be designated a static value by either publisher or developer? Or will they be marked as "gifts" with or without a value stamped on the package?

 

If you live inside of EU then you will probably don't need to worry about tariffs as Paradox, which is PoE's publisher, is Swedish company and therefore they probably ship goods that going in EU from inside of boarders of EU, which mean that there will not be any tariffs or taxes. If you live outside of USA and EU then you are probably had to pay taxes and tariffs for that sum what Paradox ask  for collector edition and it shipping, which is probably about $150, which means that you will need to pay about $37.50 VAT and tariffs that your country asks. Of course depending on what courier Paradox uses there is change that your customs don't take your packet on checking and it comes to you free at charge (of course your duty as law binding citizen is to go and pay those fees anyway).

 

 

I'm Norwegian so from what i see there wont be any customs fees but the 25% tax for goods worth more than 35$ still applies :/. Which still begs the question of how the package is going to be categorized and how it will be priced.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Gyges

[ManifestedISO]

That is a really good question, especially as it's a signed edition. Somehow the signature has to get on the box, and then to Norway. Which then makes me wonder, where will the box originate? Irvine? Sweden? Two printers, maybe? One in the US, one in Europe? Are they sending signed editions from Irvine to Sweden? Are they sending the Obsidian crew to Europe, to sign a bunch of goods?

 

Where do things go first in Europe, anyway, who has the main port ... so many questions I have.  

Edited July 9, 2014 by ManifestedISO

[Hiro Protagonist II]

That is a really good question, especially as it's a signed edition. Somehow the signature has to get on the box, and then to Norway. Which then makes me wonder, where will the box originate? Irvine? Sweden? Two printers, maybe? One in the US, one in Europe? Are they sending signed editions from Irvine to Sweden? Are they sending the Obsidian crew to Europe, to sign a bunch of goods?

 

Those are very good questions. Going by the Kickstarter site alone, there's 2355 boxes that need to be signed. And a lot more since the backer portal went live. I know I wouldn't like to be signing over 2000+ boxes. And I wonder how they'll be sending these boxes between Obsidian and Paradox.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist II

[dr membrano]

What they SHOULD do, as with all other items sent through customs, is wrap it in a t-shirt and declare it as "gifts and chocolates". They'll be none the wiser.

[Elerond]

That is a really good question, especially as it's a signed edition. Somehow the signature has to get on the box, and then to Norway. Which then makes me wonder, where will the box originate? Irvine? Sweden? Two printers, maybe? One in the US, one in Europe? Are they sending signed editions from Irvine to Sweden? Are they sending the Obsidian crew to Europe, to sign a bunch of goods?

 

Where do things go first in Europe, anyway, who has the main port ... so many questions I have.  

 

For Paradox most intelligent thing to do for those singed collector editions that come to Europe is to make people in Obsidian to sign them and then sent them all in one packet to Sweden (or where ever Paradox EU warehouse is) where they can be sent same time with other European deliveries, which would make them cheaper to deliver and also it keeps all handling of European deliveries in same place.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I'd expect Paradox will have this done well in advance, boxes printed and sent to Obsidian to avoid any last minute problems. And then Obsidian sending the boxes to Europe for Paradox to box the contents in prior to the release date. One would hope so.

 

I know from experience that signing a thousand plus Christmas cards is a little time consuming to send out to clients. Having 2000+ boxes turn up on your doorstep and the dev team having to sign each one would be even more time consuming. And it's not something the dev's would probably be prepared for. Be good to see a picture of the dev's surrounded by thousands of boxes. I can see the next KIckstarter, signed boxed copies will probably be at the $1000 tier.

[Silent Winter]

^you'll be able to tell where in the pile your box was depending on how much like a flat line the signature looks

(first hundred - beautiful, flourishing signatures complete with smiley faces; next hundred - no smiley faces; next hundred - lose some flourishes; ...; last hundred - just the 'X')

Edited July 9, 2014 by Silent Winter

[Pidesco]

 

 

Ever since i first put money into this project and selected the signed collectors edition i have been wondering how the physical goods are gonna be shipped and how they will be "classified", for lack of a better word, during shipping. I'll explain why this is important, at least to me.

My country has a very low value treshold for importing foreign goods for personal use. Anything above about 35$ you have to pay a fee for clearing it through customs and some 25% of the goods' value. What exactly is going to determine the goods' value when i didn't directly purchase them? Is it going to be the total amount i pledged? Dear gods, the guys that gave 10k is in for a surprise then. Will the various items be designated a static value by either publisher or developer? Or will they be marked as "gifts" with or without a value stamped on the package?

 

If you live inside of EU then you will probably don't need to worry about tariffs as Paradox, which is PoE's publisher, is Swedish company and therefore they probably ship goods that going in EU from inside of boarders of EU, which mean that there will not be any tariffs or taxes. If you live outside of USA and EU then you are probably had to pay taxes and tariffs for that sum what Paradox ask  for collector edition and it shipping, which is probably about $150, which means that you will need to pay about $37.50 VAT and tariffs that your country asks. Of course depending on what courier Paradox uses there is change that your customs don't take your packet on checking and it comes to you free at charge (of course your duty as law binding citizen is to go and pay those fees anyway).

 

 

I'm Norwegian so from what i see there wont be any customs fees but the 25% tax for goods worth more than 35$ still applies :/. Which still begs the question of how the package is going to be categorized and how it will be priced.

 

 

Assuming the goods are shipped from Sweden, and considering that Norway belongs to the Schengen Area, you shouldn't pay anything extra.

[Gyges]

 

Assuming the goods are shipped from Sweden, and considering that Norway belongs to the Schengen Area, you shouldn't pay anything extra.

 

 

That would be awesome if it was the case. Though i somehow doubt im that lucky.

[nipsen]

That's how it works legally, and how it's supposed to work.

 

But in practice, what we do here in the last Soviet state is this: When the goods arrive at the airport, they get shipped to the mail service's custom department (unless you pay for a private actor to deal with the customs papers for you - in which case you declare the type of goods and add 25% tax for certain goods. As you say, the ). And the clause for freely importing personal goods in Schengen only applies if you have been out of the country yourself. Internet shopping always incurs a 25% tax in addition to the customs fees, as long as the goods are worth more than 200 NOK ~ 24 euro or so.

 

So even if Paradox filled out all the customs papers, specified the value of the goods, that we've paid such and such, that the tax was included or not included -- it wouldn't matter. Because Internet shopping has it's own rules.. it's stuck to a mail service licensing agreement -- and there's no way to get around it.

 

In other words, I wouldn't honestly be incredibly unhappy if Obsidian marked the original Kickstarter value on the package, and thought of the disc-set as a "free gift" in return for a "donation for a good cause". Which, incidentally would actually make the customs papers completely legal - just saying.

[teknoman2]

obviously they will sign the first version of the box, then scan it at very high resolution and reprint it with the signatures on. i dont think they plan to spend entire  days signing by hand all boxes. just like signed world cup balls are mass produced and sold. no player would sit there signing thousands of balls, they scan his signature then print it on the ball

[Elerond]

obviously they will sign the first version of the box, then scan it at very high resolution and reprint it with the signatures on. i dont think they plan to spend entire  days signing by hand all boxes. just like signed world cup balls are mass produced and sold. no player would sit there signing thousands of balls, they scan his signature then print it on the ball

 

That is not signed copy usually means, and it would be quite worthless, as mass copied signatures don't have any relevant collecting value in them. 

[Gyges]

That's how it works legally, and how it's supposed to work.

 

But in practice, what we do here in the last Soviet state is this: When the goods arrive at the airport, they get shipped to the mail service's custom department (unless you pay for a private actor to deal with the customs papers for you - in which case you declare the type of goods and add 25% tax for certain goods. As you say, the ). And the clause for freely importing personal goods in Schengen only applies if you have been out of the country yourself. Internet shopping always incurs a 25% tax in addition to the customs fees, as long as the goods are worth more than 200 NOK ~ 24 euro or so.

 

So even if Paradox filled out all the customs papers, specified the value of the goods, that we've paid such and such, that the tax was included or not included -- it wouldn't matter. Because Internet shopping has it's own rules.. it's stuck to a mail service licensing agreement -- and there's no way to get around it.

 

In other words, I wouldn't honestly be incredibly unhappy if Obsidian marked the original Kickstarter value on the package, and thought of the disc-set as a "free gift" in return for a "donation for a good cause". Which, incidentally would actually make the customs papers completely legal - just saying.

 

I like this idea. Someone relay this to someone important, i got money on the line here!

[nipsen]

Bah! No, you have to petition the right authorities back in the 70s when the law was made and the interpretation of it established, you lazy bum! We just have to find a time-machine.

 

 

obviously they will sign the first version of the box, then scan it at very high resolution and reprint it with the signatures on. i dont think they plan to spend entire  days signing by hand all boxes. just like signed world cup balls are mass produced and sold. no player would sit there signing thousands of balls, they scan his signature then print it on the ball

 

That is not signed copy usually means, and it would be quite worthless, as mass copied signatures don't have any relevant collecting value in them. 

 

 

...I suppose they could sign a couple of hundred cardboard prints, before they become boxes, and ship them along to the factory afterwards. But that's cheating, and no one wants to know about it if they do that.

 

How many signed collector's edition boxes did people order, by the way?

[Elerond]

Bah! No, you have to petition the right authorities back in the 70s when the law was made and the interpretation of it established, you lazy bum! We just have to find a time-machine.

 

 

obviously they will sign the first version of the box, then scan it at very high resolution and reprint it with the signatures on. i dont think they plan to spend entire  days signing by hand all boxes. just like signed world cup balls are mass produced and sold. no player would sit there signing thousands of balls, they scan his signature then print it on the ball

 

That is not signed copy usually means, and it would be quite worthless, as mass copied signatures don't have any relevant collecting value in them. 

 

 

...I suppose they could sign a couple of hundred cardboard prints, before they become boxes, and ship them along to the factory afterwards. But that's cheating, and no one wants to know about it if they do that.

 

How many signed collector's edition boxes did people order, by the way?

 

About 2000

[Hiro Protagonist II]

How many signed collector's edition boxes did people order, by the way?

 

 

Going by the Kickstarter site alone, there's 2355 boxes that need to be signed. And a lot more since the backer portal went live.

[ManifestedISO]

What, fake signatures, that's not right. The whole reason I supported--one of the main reasons I supported the Reading Rainbow Kickstarter, was for the signed headshot from LeVar. If all I wanted was a facsimile, I could just do it myself and call it an autograph ... that's not right, at all. 

[Lephys]

What if they build an android to the exact specifications of a developer from the team, then copy that dev's brain over into the android's electronic brain, then have the android sign all the copies in a fraction of the time with his super awesome android powers? Would that still count? I mean, technically, every single copy would be manually signed by that developer's consciousness. Meh?

[Silent Winter]

^ a brilliant idea, sir, with just 2 minor flaws.  1) We don't know how to build an android and 2) we don't know how to build an android.  But other than that, it's superlative!

I was thinking they could just hire an intern, legally change his name to J.E.Sawyer and then have the Obsidian employee of that name sign the boxes

Edited July 10, 2014 by Silent Winter

[Humanoid]

I will accept nothing less than the development team visiting every one of those 2355 homes in person and signing the box in front of the backer.

 

Plus, company funded around-the-world holiday for all the devs, what's not to like?

[Lephys]

I will accept nothing less than the development team visiting every one of those 2355 homes in person and signing the box in front of the backer.

Okay okay, what if they make stamps of the team's own signatures, but the devs all use those stamps in-person in front of every single backer at his own home? Is it still legit, even though they aren't using a pen?

 

And on that note, would it be okay if the signatures were just printed on the boxes so long as the development team was operating the printing machinery at the time?

 

Edited July 10, 2014 by Lephys

[Silent Winter]

Okay okay, what if they make stamps of the team's own signatures, but the devs all use those stamps in-person in front of every single backer at his own home? Is it still legit, even though they aren't using a pen?

 

*has a thought*

a custom-made pen - instead of a round nib, or a fountain pen nib, it has a nib in the exact shape of your name - way easier than needing to move the pen.