Assassin's Creed: Unity (for men only!)

[Calax]

The only game that I've, so far, seen get any guff is GTA V. I saw a few reviews go "and that's kinda bad" to the portrayal of women within Watch_Dogs, but nothing on the scale of the feminist nuclear explosion that's happened over Assassins Creed.

 

 

For those that don't know, in watch_dogs there are four women who have a major impact on the plot. Aidens Sister, His Neice, Rose Washington and Clara. The game starts with the death of one (the niece), And the plot is driven by the death of another (Rose Washington who's death is blackmail that they had almost found), A third is killed as character development (Clara), and the fourth is kidnapped as leverage and becomes traumatized by the events of the game (Aiden's Sister).

 

 

Seriously, if you don't care about watch_dogs look at the above and tell me you don't think that it deserves this feminist hoopla much more than Unity.

 

Hell I'm willing to bet one of the only reasons that Unity gets so much press is because it doesn't require you to play the game to get offended.

[Elerond]

The only game that I've, so far, seen get any guff is GTA V. I saw a few reviews go "and that's kinda bad" to the portrayal of women within Watch_Dogs, but nothing on the scale of the feminist nuclear explosion that's happened over Assassins Creed.

 

 

For those that don't know, in watch_dogs there are four women who have a major impact on the plot. Aidens Sister, His Neice, Rose Washington and Clara. The game starts with the death of one (the niece), And the plot is driven by the death of another (Rose Washington who's death is blackmail that they had almost found), A third is killed as character development (Clara), and the fourth is kidnapped as leverage and becomes traumatized by the events of the game (Aiden's Sister).

 

 

Seriously, if you don't care about watch_dogs look at the above and tell me you don't think that it deserves this feminist hoopla much more than Unity.

 

Hell I'm willing to bet one of the only reasons that Unity gets so much press is because it doesn't require you to play the game to get offended.

 

I have seen quite lot critic towards how Watch_Dogs portray women, but I must say that Unity deserves more hoopla, because they tried to actually lied to make themselves look better, although I think Watch_Dogs should get much more  hoopla from that fact that their last year's E3 show was pure lie to make game look graphically much better than what final version actually is, which I have seen criticized, but not nearly enough as such lying in my opinion is much worse than what ACU's PR team did, but sadly mostly what I see in net is that "true" gamer give excuses for this like they do for ACU and have done so many other games.

 

That said I must repeat that I am very clad that Ubisoft gets tons of **** for their newest lying escapade, especially when you take consideration little they got from lying how Watch_Dogs, will look like.

 

PS. Lying to your customers to make yourself look better than what you actually are should always be looked as very bad thing.

[Malcador]

What are they lying about again ?

[Bryy]

Those games got lot of critic about how they handled women, but their developers didn't mistake trying to first give bull**** excuse to sound that they are more inclusive than what they are, but told truth,that they did want make games that only have male protagonist from beginning.

 

And as I said they deserve every bit bad press what they get from trying such idiotic stunt, especially when their "they correct statement" is full cross against first statement, as in sense that first statement that they had plans from female option for protagonist until quite recently, can't be true at all if second, that they didn't add female option because player always plays their male protagonist, is true.

 

So I would say that people should give Ubisoft hard time regardless of what they think about inclusion of women protagonist or do Assassin Creed interest them even first place, because bull****ing their customers is thing that should always be looked down, because it is just bad habit which adoption by companies people should try their hardest to prevent.

 

Yeah, the outrage here is the way Ubisoft shot themselves in the foot and then just continued to saw off the leg.

 

But hey, it's easier to just say "women should just shut the f**** up", so here we are.

 

I'm not saying in any way, shape, or form that is what you have been saying, Calax; but the general message has been distorted in order to just simply rag on them females.

[Orogun01]

 

Those games got lot of critic about how they handled women, but their developers didn't mistake trying to first give bull**** excuse to sound that they are more inclusive than what they are, but told truth,that they did want make games that only have male protagonist from beginning.

 

And as I said they deserve every bit bad press what they get from trying such idiotic stunt, especially when their "they correct statement" is full cross against first statement, as in sense that first statement that they had plans from female option for protagonist until quite recently, can't be true at all if second, that they didn't add female option because player always plays their male protagonist, is true.

 

So I would say that people should give Ubisoft hard time regardless of what they think about inclusion of women protagonist or do Assassin Creed interest them even first place, because bull****ing their customers is thing that should always be looked down, because it is just bad habit which adoption by companies people should try their hardest to prevent.

 

Yeah, the outrage here is the way Ubisoft shot themselves in the foot and then just continued to saw off the leg.

 

But hey, it's easier to just say "women should just shut the f**** up", so here we are.

 

I'm not saying in any way, shape, or form that is what you have been saying, Calax; but the general message has been distorted in order to just simply rag on them females.

 

OTOH, I get the feeling that journalist were out for blood after seeing that "AC: Unity didn't have no women"(something that could easily be patched in or given as a free DLC) and decided to make them suffer for it. Quite frankly this whole thing (the entire SJW crusade) is just childish and counterproductive, they been at it for years and all they've got to show for it is how many people they've grieved. Or how many grandstanding praise was given for little to nothing done.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Those games got lot of critic about how they handled women, but their developers didn't mistake trying to first give bull**** excuse to sound that they are more inclusive than what they are, but told truth,that they did want make games that only have male protagonist from beginning.

 

And as I said they deserve every bit bad press what they get from trying such idiotic stunt, especially when their "they correct statement" is full cross against first statement, as in sense that first statement that they had plans from female option for protagonist until quite recently, can't be true at all if second, that they didn't add female option because player always plays their male protagonist, is true.

 

So I would say that people should give Ubisoft hard time regardless of what they think about inclusion of women protagonist or do Assassin Creed interest them even first place, because bull****ing their customers is thing that should always be looked down, because it is just bad habit which adoption by companies people should try their hardest to prevent.

 

Yeah, the outrage here is the way Ubisoft shot themselves in the foot and then just continued to saw off the leg.

 

But hey, it's easier to just say "women should just shut the f**** up", so here we are.

 

I'm not saying in any way, shape, or form that is what you have been saying, Calax; but the general message has been distorted in order to just simply rag on them females.

 

OTOH, I get the feeling that journalist were out for blood after seeing that "AC: Unity didn't have no women"(something that could easily be patched in or given as a free DLC) and decided to make them suffer for it. Quite frankly this whole thing (the entire SJW crusade) is just childish and counterproductive, they been at it for years and all they've got to show for it is how many people they've grieved. Or how many grandstanding praise was given for little to nothing done.

 

 

@ Orog

 

Your cynicism makes me laugh

 

 

Personally for me if I thought raising issues of SJ was pointless I would stop doing it. But I only see the awareness increasing and companies taking considerations like inclusivity more seriously. Yes I agree sometimes I know my intentions are misplaced but I think the greater  cause of SJ gets more things right than wrong

Edited June 14, 2014 by BruceVC

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Call me a cynic but controversy sells. I can't help but feel some websites will pick up anything that's controversial and run with it. And then do follow up stories a day or two later to keep up the frenzy. It's like sharks biting and they whip them up into a frenzy even more. And then we have a corner of the internet nerd raging about it on both sides. In a few months time, this will all be forgotten and something else will be in the headlines.

 

Oh and Bruce how many social justice issues are you still championing over the last 18 months or 3 years? Do you still put in time to do all those social justice issues or is some just fleeting and you move onto the next issue.

[BruceVC]

Call me a cynic but controversy sells. I can't help but feel some websites will pick up anything that's controversial and run with it. And then do follow up stories a day or two later to keep up the frenzy. It's like sharks biting and they whip them up into a frenzy even more. And then we have a corner of the internet nerd raging about it on both sides. In a few months time, this will all be forgotten and something else will be in the headlines.

 

Oh and Bruce how many social justice issues are you still championing over the last 18 months or 3 years? Do you still put in time to do all those social justice issues or is some just fleeting and you move onto the next issue.

 

Good question, I move onto the next issue. Remember Hiro I can't be everywhere at once..I need to spread my efforts to different targets if warranted.

 

Also you don't want to go on and on about the same issue, I found this is unhelpful as people tend to get annoyed to keep getting reminded about something. So the better way  is to raise awareness on multiple issues

[Mamoulian War]

 

 

 

Those games got lot of critic about how they handled women, but their developers didn't mistake trying to first give bull**** excuse to sound that they are more inclusive than what they are, but told truth,that they did want make games that only have male protagonist from beginning.

 

And as I said they deserve every bit bad press what they get from trying such idiotic stunt, especially when their "they correct statement" is full cross against first statement, as in sense that first statement that they had plans from female option for protagonist until quite recently, can't be true at all if second, that they didn't add female option because player always plays their male protagonist, is true.

 

So I would say that people should give Ubisoft hard time regardless of what they think about inclusion of women protagonist or do Assassin Creed interest them even first place, because bull****ing their customers is thing that should always be looked down, because it is just bad habit which adoption by companies people should try their hardest to prevent.

 

Yeah, the outrage here is the way Ubisoft shot themselves in the foot and then just continued to saw off the leg.

 

But hey, it's easier to just say "women should just shut the f**** up", so here we are.

 

I'm not saying in any way, shape, or form that is what you have been saying, Calax; but the general message has been distorted in order to just simply rag on them females.

 

OTOH, I get the feeling that journalist were out for blood after seeing that "AC: Unity didn't have no women"(something that could easily be patched in or given as a free DLC) and decided to make them suffer for it. Quite frankly this whole thing (the entire SJW crusade) is just childish and counterproductive, they been at it for years and all they've got to show for it is how many people they've grieved. Or how many grandstanding praise was given for little to nothing done.

 

 

@ Orog

 

Your cynicism makes me laugh

 

 

Personally for me if I thought raising issues of SJ was pointless I would stop doing it. But I only see the awareness increasing and companies taking considerations like inclusivity more seriously. Yes I agree sometimes I know my intentions are misplaced but I think the greater  cause of SJ gets more things right than wrong

 

 

Sorry to tell you, but it is in Human nature, that the more you are pointing about some problem, the more they get annoyed when they hear/read about it and just start to completely ignore it...

 

If you want to make people aware, you should be only raising issues about the most serious problems. If you starts to raise issue about it every day, the common populace just stops reading/hearing to you, because their short attention spam will not allow them to focus not even on the biggest issues anymore...

 

Unfortunately the journalist's way how to handle this issue is already for many people at the level, that if there is more negative SJ backlash about content, the more likely they are to purchase that content.

 

We have one proverb in my country: "Priveľa všetkého škodí." (Too much of everything is harmful.)

 

And I think, people in other countries should take an advice from this proverb as well.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Mamoulian War

[licketysplit]

The problem is mostly in the lame excuse they offered. Should have just said we don't want to do it.

[Orogun01]

@ Orog

 

Your cynicism makes me laugh

 

 

Personally for me if I thought raising issues of SJ was pointless I would stop doing it. But I only see the awareness increasing and companies taking considerations like inclusivity more seriously. Yes I agree sometimes I know my intentions are misplaced but I think the greater  cause of SJ gets more things right than wrong

I'm not being cynical, I am just saying what I've observed.

 

Journalist very clearly had something to said about the lack of women in AC or otherwise the question would had never been asked that prompted Ubisoft's response  that has caused so much uproar. They could had simply acted maturely about it and never outright claim that Ubisoft is lying, normally that is not something a respectable journalist would do without concrete proof.(but then again games journalism isn't really respectable or journalism)

As for the effectiveness of raising issues it can be summarize as this: "If I pretend to give a **** would you shut up?", that's the level of commitment they've gotten from publishers. You've annoyed them into acknowledging you, congratulations all around. As for what they get more right than wrong, all theories sound right until proven.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

Those games got lot of critic about how they handled women, but their developers didn't mistake trying to first give bull**** excuse to sound that they are more inclusive than what they are, but told truth,that they did want make games that only have male protagonist from beginning.

 

And as I said they deserve every bit bad press what they get from trying such idiotic stunt, especially when their "they correct statement" is full cross against first statement, as in sense that first statement that they had plans from female option for protagonist until quite recently, can't be true at all if second, that they didn't add female option because player always plays their male protagonist, is true.

 

So I would say that people should give Ubisoft hard time regardless of what they think about inclusion of women protagonist or do Assassin Creed interest them even first place, because bull****ing their customers is thing that should always be looked down, because it is just bad habit which adoption by companies people should try their hardest to prevent.

 

Yeah, the outrage here is the way Ubisoft shot themselves in the foot and then just continued to saw off the leg.

 

But hey, it's easier to just say "women should just shut the f**** up", so here we are.

 

I'm not saying in any way, shape, or form that is what you have been saying, Calax; but the general message has been distorted in order to just simply rag on them females.

 

OTOH, I get the feeling that journalist were out for blood after seeing that "AC: Unity didn't have no women"(something that could easily be patched in or given as a free DLC) and decided to make them suffer for it. Quite frankly this whole thing (the entire SJW crusade) is just childish and counterproductive, they been at it for years and all they've got to show for it is how many people they've grieved. Or how many grandstanding praise was given for little to nothing done.

 

 

@ Orog

 

Your cynicism makes me laugh

 

 

Personally for me if I thought raising issues of SJ was pointless I would stop doing it. But I only see the awareness increasing and companies taking considerations like inclusivity more seriously. Yes I agree sometimes I know my intentions are misplaced but I think the greater  cause of SJ gets more things right than wrong

 

 

Sorry to tell you, but it is in Human nature, that the more you are pointing about some problem, the more they get annoyed when they hear/read about it and just start to completely ignore it...

 

If you want to make people aware, you should be only raising issues about the most serious problems. If you starts to raise issue about it every day, the common populace just stops reading/hearing to you, because their short attention spam will not allow them to focus not even on the biggest issues anymore...

 

Unfortunately the journalist's way how to handle this issue is already for many people at the level, that if there is more negative SJ backlash about content, the more likely they are to purchase that content.

 

We have one proverb in my country: "Priveľa všetkého škodí." (Too much of everything is harmful.)

 

And I think, people in other countries should take an advice from this proverb as well.

 

 

 

I hear what you are saying but I have to disagree as the historical facts don't reflect what you are saying. For example look at social justice movements in the past like giving women the vote, the civil rights movement in the USA or Apartheid in South Africa it was only the constant awareness and campaigns that various groups supported that led to the changes in all these types of social injustice

 

And yes I know we are talking about games but on the issue of inclusivity the principle is the same

[BruceVC]

 

@ Orog

 

Your cynicism makes me laugh

 

 

Personally for me if I thought raising issues of SJ was pointless I would stop doing it. But I only see the awareness increasing and companies taking considerations like inclusivity more seriously. Yes I agree sometimes I know my intentions are misplaced but I think the greater  cause of SJ gets more things right than wrong

I'm not being cynical, I am just saying what I've observed.

 

Journalist very clearly had something to said about the lack of women in AC or otherwise the question would had never been asked that prompted Ubisoft's response  that has caused so much uproar. They could had simply acted maturely about it and never outright claim that Ubisoft is lying, normally that is not something a respectable journalist would do without concrete proof.(but then again games journalism isn't really respectable or journalism)

As for the effectiveness of raising issues it can be summarize as this: "If I pretend to give a **** would you shut up?", that's the level of commitment they've gotten from publishers. You've annoyed them into acknowledging you, congratulations all around. As for what they get more right than wrong, all theories sound right until proven.

 

 

No of course not, I don't want you to say something that you don't believe

 

For me the ideal situation would be for people on these forums to take on objective position on a particular issue, listen to the facts and then decide if its a valid concern that needs to be condemned. That's all anyone can ask or really expect. My problem is I feel some people immediately switch off when a SJ is discussed without even considering if it may be relevant

[Orogun01]

No of course not, I don't want you to say something that you don't believe

 

For me the ideal situation would be for people on these forums to take on objective position on a particular issue, listen to the facts and then decide if its a valid concern that needs to be condemned. That's all anyone can ask or really expect. My problem is I feel some people immediately switch off when a SJ is discussed without even considering if it may be relevant

Every movement you mention in your post to Mamoulian had a clear purpose in mind, they weren't after abstractions they had a goal in mind. Gathering support was crucial to reaching that goal, but gathering support without a clear goal is just a rabble. That's what most people see when they look at SJW; rabblerousers and malcontents who rage towards established notions simply because they think theirs are better.

Had they actually used all that publicity to gain some traction on a cause they might had gotten somewhere, yet it seems only the opportunistic made use of the movement's for their own benefit. I have said this before; if they asked for more games geared towards women rather than criticizing (an inherently hostile act) games that are not, they'd have less infamy and probably at the very least a few games exclusively for them.

 

As for my personal opinion on it: I'm currently in debt from one of those college game programs that are nothing more than a con,I 'm taking a series of menial 3D related freelance jobs because there are very few openings in the game industry and it is thought to get into(they ask for experience you cannot get without working in the industry). On my free time I get to work on a game i'm currently trying to develop with some off my former classmates(since they're in the same situation).

For years I heard about big name publishers terrible working conditions that drove all the talent away, I saw less game being made because of bloated budgets, corporate practices that were clearly driving the industry to the ground.

So my opinion about Feminism complaining about women being misrepresent is simply this:"**** them! You can come and suffer through all this and then make the ****ing game you want. I ain't going through all this **** to please you. Because you clearly didn't give two ****s about game developers before; which I don't have a problem with, they free to do as their like. But now that you want something you're all complain about how it should be given to you. **** those spoiled brats and their entitlement issues!"

 

Sorry about the rant and the cursing, I really needed to get that off my chest and is in no way directed to you and only somewhat related to the topic but it is where I stand.

[TheChris92]

I think what is really annoying about Ubisoft's statement of not making any of the seemingly 4 identical white dudes a female, or at the very least not a white dude, is when he referred to the former as a 'feature'. A female protagonist should not be made for the sake of having a female protagonist of course, but they had potential to really do it here. Not that I particularly care for Ubisoft's approach to character writing, when their best examples of recent times are Ezio Audacity the Refrigerator or Aidan I-Want-To-Be-Batman-Pierce letting his gun do the talking and his gun only knows one very loud word. Yeah, I'll pass on another Assassins Creed which generally are about as much about being an assassin as Grand Theft Auto is about stealing cars.

Edited June 14, 2014 by TheChris92

[Calax]

 

Those games got lot of critic about how they handled women, but their developers didn't mistake trying to first give bull**** excuse to sound that they are more inclusive than what they are, but told truth,that they did want make games that only have male protagonist from beginning.

 

And as I said they deserve every bit bad press what they get from trying such idiotic stunt, especially when their "they correct statement" is full cross against first statement, as in sense that first statement that they had plans from female option for protagonist until quite recently, can't be true at all if second, that they didn't add female option because player always plays their male protagonist, is true.

 

So I would say that people should give Ubisoft hard time regardless of what they think about inclusion of women protagonist or do Assassin Creed interest them even first place, because bull****ing their customers is thing that should always be looked down, because it is just bad habit which adoption by companies people should try their hardest to prevent.

 

Yeah, the outrage here is the way Ubisoft shot themselves in the foot and then just continued to saw off the leg.

 

But hey, it's easier to just say "women should just shut the f**** up", so here we are.

 

I'm not saying in any way, shape, or form that is what you have been saying, Calax; but the general message has been distorted in order to just simply rag on them females.

 

http://tmi.kotaku.com/ubisoft-refused-to-talk-to-me-about-women-1590289504

I think my issues with this entire thing are sort of exemplified in the above. The guy went in there and deliberately tried to stir some stuff during a PR event. They're stirring the hype machine to bring in readers (as kotaku is known to do) and then you do stuff like your thread title "For men only" which is a deliberate jab at the "sexism" in the game that we haven't even seen yet. AC is actually a pretty good series for good female characters, and yet because of the one question and, shall we say, questionable response, the only thing everyone thinks about it is "Hey! they're deliberately leaving out women!" leading to a lynching.

 

And you're telling me the issue isn't that there's issues relating to gender equity, but instead that it's because "Ubisoft lied!". *Looks at thread title again* Uh... huh....

[BruceVC]

 

No of course not, I don't want you to say something that you don't believe

 

For me the ideal situation would be for people on these forums to take on objective position on a particular issue, listen to the facts and then decide if its a valid concern that needs to be condemned. That's all anyone can ask or really expect. My problem is I feel some people immediately switch off when a SJ is discussed without even considering if it may be relevant

Every movement you mention in your post to Mamoulian had a clear purpose in mind, they weren't after abstractions they had a goal in mind. Gathering support was crucial to reaching that goal, but gathering support without a clear goal is just a rabble. That's what most people see when they look at SJW; rabblerousers and malcontents who rage towards established notions simply because they think theirs are better.

Had they actually used all that publicity to gain some traction on a cause they might had gotten somewhere, yet it seems only the opportunistic made use of the movement's for their own benefit. I have said this before; if they asked for more games geared towards women rather than criticizing (an inherently hostile act) games that are not, they'd have less infamy and probably at the very least a few games exclusively for them.

 

As for my personal opinion on it: I'm currently in debt from one of those college game programs that are nothing more than a con,I 'm taking a series of menial 3D related freelance jobs because there are very few openings in the game industry and it is thought to get into(they ask for experience you cannot get without working in the industry). On my free time I get to work on a game i'm currently trying to develop with some off my former classmates(since they're in the same situation).

For years I heard about big name publishers terrible working conditions that drove all the talent away, I saw less game being made because of bloated budgets, corporate practices that were clearly driving the industry to the ground.

So my opinion about Feminism complaining about women being misrepresent is simply this:"**** them! You can come and suffer through all this and then make the ****ing game you want. I ain't going through all this **** to please you. Because you clearly didn't give two ****s about game developers before; which I don't have a problem with, they free to do as their like. But now that you want something you're all complain about how it should be given to you. **** those spoiled brats and their entitlement issues!"

 

Sorry about the rant and the cursing, I really needed to get that off my chest and is in no way directed to you and only somewhat related to the topic but it is where I stand.

 

 

 

You make some good points based on your personal experiences. And from your perspective and how you have explained what you mean I can't disagree with what you are saying.

 

So  that's a good post as I do think the broader point of what you are saying is valid  in certain cases and that is "you can't expect someone to be concerned about all aspects of inclusivity when they battling just to get a there initial product off the ground due to the costs and logistics. There are other priorities"

 

The only consideration is a large, established and well resourced company like Ubisoft  should be more concerned and want to address perceptions around there games and the reasons they give for certain decisions?

 

Edited June 14, 2014 by BruceVC

[Meshugger]

 

 

I'm waiting for the day when they put a male lead in Tomb Raider. Same with the Syberia games. We men should be able to play as a man and it's discrimination not to include a male avatar. 

 

I think the point is that as the number of players/playable characters increases, the omission becomes more noticeable and jarring. In single-protagonist titles it's all rather arbitrary, but with four-player co-op such as in the new AC game, variety becomes more appreciated. By the time you get to larger scale multiplayer games like Unreal Tourney it's an expected feature, and attempting anything else in an MMO would be a ludicrous concept.

 

Females make up 48% of the user base. 

 

Ubisoft continuing to unapologetically chase the old demographic is incredibly insulting.

 

 

How much % of the market are:

 

- Christian?

- Any other religious following?

- Asian?

- Indian?

- Communists?

- Poor?

- Slaves?

 

Should they be less or more insulted by Ubisoft? Is Ubisoft morally obliged to cater any need of any insulted group, or do they have to rank them accordingly in a made up importancy-scale so that some are more equal than others? 

 

I wouldn't find this debacle irritating as much if it wasn't for this weak, not-really-angry-just-more-fake-dissapointed-attitude among these journalists. They do not really fight, they do not have their jobs and livelyhoods threathened because of what they do, they are not doing mass protests or boycotts, nothing is at stake. Just some mean and catty comments that they want something. It's this manifestation of weakness that i really find abhorrent. 

[Elerond]

 

 

 

I'm waiting for the day when they put a male lead in Tomb Raider. Same with the Syberia games. We men should be able to play as a man and it's discrimination not to include a male avatar. 

 

I think the point is that as the number of players/playable characters increases, the omission becomes more noticeable and jarring. In single-protagonist titles it's all rather arbitrary, but with four-player co-op such as in the new AC game, variety becomes more appreciated. By the time you get to larger scale multiplayer games like Unreal Tourney it's an expected feature, and attempting anything else in an MMO would be a ludicrous concept.

 

Females make up 48% of the user base. 

 

Ubisoft continuing to unapologetically chase the old demographic is incredibly insulting.

 

 

How much % of the market are:

 

- Christian?

- Any other religious following?

- Asian?

- Indian?

- Communists?

- Poor?

- Slaves?

 

Should they be less or more insulted by Ubisoft? Is Ubisoft morally obliged to cater any need of any insulted group, or do they have to rank them accordingly in a made up importancy-scale so that some are more equal than others? 

 

I wouldn't find this debacle irritating as much if it wasn't for this weak, not-really-angry-just-more-fake-dissapointed-attitude among these journalists. They do not really fight, they do not have their jobs and livelyhoods threathened because of what they do, they are not doing mass protests or boycotts, nothing is at stake. Just some mean and catty comments that they want something. It's this manifestation of weakness that i really find abhorrent. 

 

Ubisoft decision not carter big part of their customer base opens them up for critic from said part of their base and supporters. As customers have always right to ask that company also caters them and when we speak about big companies and customer base size of tens of millions, then it is quite natural that there is lots of critic when company decides not to cater people that consist about half of their customer base, especially if you are idiot in way you inform people about your decision not to cater them.

[Orogun01]

You make some good points based on your personal experiences. And from your perspective and how you have explained what you mean I can't disagree with what you are saying.

 

So  that's a good post as I do think the broader point of what you are saying is valid  in certain cases and that is "you can't expect someone to be concerned about all aspects of inclusivity when they battling just to get a there initial product off the ground due to the costs and logistics. There are other priorities"

 

The only consideration is a large, established and well resourced company like Ubisoft  should be more concerned and want to address perceptions around there games and the reasons they give for certain decisions?

And we go back to the same question of who Ubisoft's demographic is? Not their target audience but the people actually buying their games and it they are mostly male. Is like the saying two birds on the hand or one on the bush, when you're making a multimilion dollar production you tend to try to minimize the risk by doing your best to ensure a return. Spending that risk on the hope that women will buy your game (a demographic that while it has grown it still is a minority on AAA) the question was always, "how to get women into AAA games?"Besides from the risk that would making a women's only game, there is the fact that we have no idea of what that would be or whether it would be well received.

Feminists seem to think that they deserve a 100 million dollar shot in the dark because equal representation is a right (not really, but we've ran out of things to champion)

[Elerond]

 

You make some good points based on your personal experiences. And from your perspective and how you have explained what you mean I can't disagree with what you are saying.

 

So  that's a good post as I do think the broader point of what you are saying is valid  in certain cases and that is "you can't expect someone to be concerned about all aspects of inclusivity when they battling just to get a there initial product off the ground due to the costs and logistics. There are other priorities"

 

The only consideration is a large, established and well resourced company like Ubisoft  should be more concerned and want to address perceptions around there games and the reasons they give for certain decisions?

And we go back to the same question of who Ubisoft's demographic is? Not their target audience but the people actually buying their games and it they are mostly male. Is like the saying two birds on the hand or one on the bush, when you're making a multimilion dollar production you tend to try to minimize the risk by doing your best to ensure a return. Spending that risk on the hope that women will buy your game (a demographic that while it has grown it still is a minority on AAA) the question was always, "how to get women into AAA games?"Besides from the risk that would making a women's only game, there is the fact that we have no idea of what that would be or whether it would be well received.

Feminists seem to think that they deserve a 100 million dollar shot in the dark because equal representation is a right (not really, but we've ran out of things to champion)

 

 

Where you found any information about what is composition of Ubisoft's demographic? Is this poor reasoning or knowledge based on common beliefs as opposed to actual knowledge fact or do you actually have some sort actual numbers, because only gaming demographic numbers with any significant meaning that what I have seen comes from ESA (Entertainment Software association ) 

[Calax]

I think his point is that assuming that just having a female as a lead character isn't exactly a surefire way to bask in the glow of female gamers buying your game.

 

Lara Croft would be a good example.

[Elerond]

I think his point is that assuming that just having a female as a lead character isn't exactly a surefire way to bask in the glow of female gamers buying your game.

 

Lara Croft would be a good example.

 

Although even worst games in Tomb Raider franchise are sold over million copies and newest one is currently becoming best selling game in franchise. And even though it took bit longer than what SE hoped, even newest Tomb Raider become profitable after eight months. Although these figures don't tell you whom where those people that bought all those copies of Tomb Raider.

 

Edited June 14, 2014 by Elerond

[Calax]

But can you say that it wouldn't have had similar success if it were a male protagonist? I mean the story is ripped straight from Far Cry 3 which did well too.

[Elerond]

But can you say that it wouldn't have had similar success if it were a male protagonist? I mean the story is ripped straight from Far Cry 3 which did well too.

 

I would bet that it would not have similar success if they had made new male protagonist in new franchise, as SE don't have similar ability market their games as Ubisoft can, and their existing customer base is smaller in over all than what Ubisoft has. 

 

But I seems that newest Thief has not sold very well considering that it cost SE about same as Tomb Raider and Deus Ex Human Revolution has sold under 3 million copies (although it had smaller budget than Thief and Tomb Raider), also Sleeping Dogs has sold less than newest Tomb Raider. So with these numbers I would predict that Tomb Raider clone, with male protagonist which was published by SE would sell than what Tomb Raider has sold.