Drakron Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 Let me get this ... You want to play a character that is missing missing his main class abilities? What the **** you think this is? a FPS game? Try to THINK about what that sugestion means, if you start as a guardian that mean he starts with LESS feats that a soldier (missing the starting bonus feat and all the soldier automatic feats), if he starts as a Sentinel (that if they are just as in the previous title they are not a good class) its a ... what, a brain dead Scoundrel or Scout? Heck starting as Councelor would be a god damn disater. This must be one of the dumbest, more stupid ideas I ever seen postes ... it makes the lightwhip looking good just to show as how god damn retarded this one is.
ShinIchiro Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 Whoa someone here has irrationality and anger problems. Consular should have more skills, more diplomacy stuff. Yah they'll have a minorly hard time for the first 2 levels, but after that... Besides, consulars are about diplomatic negociation and the like. Besides, how is not having FPs for the first 2-4 levels worse than not using the force for the same amount of time. Of course you'd get a massive bonus (like the force sensitive feat for Revan) as soon as you get the force back. Besides, haven't guardians always had it easier than consulars (in KOTOR 1 but they might change that)? And wouldn't a guardian be just as crippled by not having a lightsaber?
JawaJoey Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 It's make sense for you to "Have fought in the Mandalorian Wars, but didn't fall to the darkside, instead exiled yourself in embarrassment." Over the years, you escaped notice, and through lack of use, your control of the force diminishes. Then you're called upon so you must work up your control once again. Anything like "blocking" the force is just plain stupid. Not only is it just plain stupid, but it's way to reminiscent of KOTOR 1. And you don't need it. It's not like you "forgot" how to use the force. "Oh ****, I lost my keys. Damn, I forgot my gilrlfreinds birthday. Crap, I forgot how to wield the force." No no no no. It takes training to be able to use the force, and if you stop using it, it'll become less familiar and it requires mroe practice to regain control. Simple as that.
EnderAndrew Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 I think most of the previews said you "were exiled" rather than "exhiled yourself". I'm not trying to nitpick, it just occurs to me that we're overlooking a big chunk at the backstory here.
ShinIchiro Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 It's make sense for you to "Have fought in the Mandalorian Wars, but didn't fall to the darkside, instead exiled yourself in embarrassment." Over the years, you escaped notice, and through lack of use, your control of the force diminishes. Then you're called upon so you must work up your control once again. Anything like "blocking" the force is just plain stupid. Not only is it just plain stupid, but it's way to reminiscent of KOTOR 1. And you don't need it. It's not like you "forgot" how to use the force. "Oh ****, I lost my keys. Damn, I forgot my gilrlfreinds birthday. Crap, I forgot how to wield the force." No no no no. It takes training to be able to use the force, and if you stop using it, it'll become less familiar and it requires mroe practice to regain control. Simple as that. The person has cut themself off from the force. Other people have lost it (temporary or permanant). Ulic, Mara, Kyle, Jason (more like he lost his faith in the force)...ect... It's not that KOTOR 1 remaniscent, is it? It's also not quite that simple.
Drakron Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 Guardian BAB is higher even if they only can use blasters pistols and their vitality points progression is enough to survive some hits. Councelor takes the worst because he have low BAB progression and very few vitality points and he have less skills that Sentinel with means with that idea councelor would be a dead weight to carry around as the guardian and sentinel could be a little better but not much. The only reason Jedi classes were more powerful is because the force system is flawed, if you take the whole force system out of the picture you end up with flawed classes because those classes depend on force abilities. That is why the idea is moronic, most people are not going to sit around two whole levels to outset the stupidity of removing core class abilities so later they can be "sweet uber l33t", it makes no sense to either forgot to use the force or being restricted to use the force, like I said TIME AND TIME AGAIN. This is not Jedi Knight series, you dont have 100 health/100 shield points and the ability to use any weapon at start.
SilverSun Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 The person has cut themself off from the force. Other people have lost it (temporary or permanant). Ulic, Mara, Kyle, Jason (more like he lost his faith in the force)...ect... The point you make is a good one,I get the feeling though that because they're all EU characters not everyone knows who they are or their exact stories.
ShinIchiro Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 Two whole levels!!!!!!!!! Oh my god!!!!!!!!! I'm going to have to put up with 5 minutes of being around as weak as a scoundrel from KOTOR 1. What am I ever going to do? I mean those 2 levels of a carefully planned game are going to be so hard that I won't be able to beat every single person without losing a health point! Jedi are reliant on their sabers. That's it. Heal was useful, but not neccessary. I'm in the process of trying to beat the game without using the force.
Drakron Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 So its only 5 minutes who would ****ing care? Let me rephase that ... If its only 5 minutes why the **** not starting as lv 3 already? Its not like we would be missing those 30 seconds we take to press the level up buttons.
EnderAndrew Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 Well, you start as a Jedi Class. But you're starting as a weak Jedi (likely level 1). That doesn't mean you can't access the Force at all. It just means you are rusty.
ShinIchiro Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 Do you really think that they'll spend that long with you as a non force user? How long did it take you to get to level 3? Besides a scoundrel until level 5 ish was around as weak as a force-less consular. If they start you at higher level, you'd still probaby have to level yourself up from lvl to whatever level you are at.
Drakron Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 Oh shut up and grow up. As you keep posting you keep showing your ignorance towards RPGs and I am bet you are a Xbox player as well. It because of people like you we get ****ty games.
SilverSun Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 I am bet you are a Xbox player as well. WTF? What exactly does what one play their games on have to do with anything?
ShinIchiro Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 Whoa, what did I do here? I am an RPGer and GM 2 different RPGs. ALso, I am a PC player. You don't get angry at the post that I indirectly insult you in, but you start blaming me for problematic games when I am polite to you? Just extrapolate your claims for me.
Topaz Quasar Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 When the PC is starting at 0 XP yet a veteren of the Mandoloiran wars, which the two does not make any sense to me. 0 XP is fresh out of the academy/high school, not a veteren of a 4 to 6 year intergalactic war. Yet Obsidian says he is a veteren but with 0 XP BECAUSE THEY SAY SO without giving any game mechanic justification. Honestly though, who cares (besides you)? You're taking this aspect of a GAME way too seriously.
EnderAndrew Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 Oh shut up and grow up. As you keep posting you keep showing your ignorance towards RPGs and I am bet you are a Xbox player as well. It because of people like you we get ****ty games. I only see one person in this exchange who needs to grow up. One person speaks in insulting terms. One person is accusatory, and falls back upon a completely unrelated insult rather than reply to the topic at hand. One person shows a great deal of ignorance themselves in denouncing a large cadre of games he has probably never played while calling someone else ignorant. Funny, that's the same person in all three instances. Care to respond with something meaningful?
Topaz Quasar Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 Uh oh, Drakron is getting his panties in a twist again. We are just coming up ways that the story behind the PC meshes with the game mechanics of d20 KotOR. There is no way a veteren of the Mandolorain War should be first level. No way in hell, Drakron. While at the same time the Force has left the PC, he has separated himself from it so that means no Force powers. Since non-jedi classes are unavailable, the PC can only take jedi classes. Start the character at 2nd or 3rd level in the chosen Jedi class but without any Force Points seems to be the best way to show this game mechanic wise. If you have a better option, Drakron, that story and game mechanic meshes then by all means show us. I DARE YOU. :ph34r: Once again: It's just a GAME.
Topaz Quasar Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 Its not just a game, but a CRPG and in a CRPG story and game mechanics need to mesh if it is going to be a good CRPG. Maybe you should stop playing video games altogether if you're just going to be that picky.......
EnderAndrew Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 Take a former-heavyweight boxer. Remove the training and exercise. Replace it with booze and BBQ. Give him five years, and see if he last more than two rounds in the ring. I used to run the three-mile in less than 18:00. I can't run a mile in less than 7:00 today if I wanted. Ulic was cut off from the Force. It's quite possible you were cut off from the Force for a while, and you're just now remembering.
EnderAndrew Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 I think many skills atrophy over time. I worked on air conditioners in the Marine Corps. I'd have a tough time working on one today.
alanschu Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 Well, aren't you ignorant. 0 XP does mean something. It means the character is a complete and total n00b with very little real world experience to back his abilities. Sure he knows the basics due to initial training, but he has absolutely no experience in their practical use in combat and everyday affairs. A character with 0 experience is someone right out of high school and stepping into the real world for the first time. It is not an arbitrary number. Grow a clue and know the game mechanics before you post such garbage. 0 XP is arbitrary. What exactly is 0 XP. If 0 XP is a "n00b" out of high school....what's a kid? Negative XP. Why does training not result in XP? If they have no practical use of it, then they have not been trained properly (I assume trained in their given profession). XP are an arbitrary measuring stick, and it's all relative. Taking it a bit further...what is 10 XP, or 100 XP. Or level 2 vs level 3? It's just a method created to indicate the progress of your character in some sort of tangible nature.
alanschu Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 Sorry, Jedi Knight 2 is not a role playing game therefore has nothing to do with KotOR2. Jedi Knight 2 is a action game and nothing more and leave the story aspects and game mechanics of an action game out of a CRPG. Now who's ignorant. Casting something aside simply because it is not the style of game you like?
alanschu Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 Nope. Not when CRPGs are involved. Your strict adherence to the rules is your biggest setback. The rules of d20 are an arbitrary depiction (and a poor one at that) of the Star Wars universe. They inspired (since you yourself admit that KOTOR does not follow them) the rules for KOTOR. Since they are not the exact same rules however, the game mechanics that exist in a PnP RPG rulebook do not apply. Sorry for the inconvenience. Something tells me that Hades is only interested in going against everyone else. Yup.
alanschu Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 That is what I said earlier. Statistical wise he would be the same level that he was before going out of touch. The game mechanics would mesh. It is up to the player to role play his out of touch state. Since we are all about game mechanics...how about this. The PC is a "veteran" of the Mandalorian wars in that he was there. Unfortunately he was unable to make any constructive use of his abilities, so he still has 0 XP. When he returns from the war, the Council fearing his closeness to Revan may have tainted him, take away his lightsaber and exile him.
alanschu Posted July 12, 2004 Posted July 12, 2004 You wouldn't be a veteren if you didn't see any action. Gotta use a little bit of logic here. Also, who the hell wouldn't use a trained Jedi in a fight? They are the munchkin gods of Star Wars. A single Jedi could take down 10 to 15 soldiers before they even get scratched. Except it was already illustrated that a Jedi probably would not take part in a big battle. The Jedi would not be able to take down 10 to 15 soldiers because hundreds would have been fighting him. Futhermore, the battles were probably also fought primarily in space. And would a single 0 XP fresh out of the Academy Jedi take down 10 to 15 soldiers? As for being a veteran....it has already been illustrated that a veteran does not have to see combat. He could have been the best Jedi Chef in the fleet.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now