NFL 2014 Offseason

[Keyrock]

It sucks.  The guy is the Cowboys' best defender but his body is made out of paper mache.

[Nepenthe]

Well, you can't very well expect Jimmy Graham to show up for a voluntary quasi-practice when has a pending grievance over the propriety of the franchise tag the team has used on him.  He's actually still a free agent-- for now the Saints have a right of first refusal and the right to draft pick compensation from any team signing him, but this grievance puts those rights in question, too.  Most likely, it's all posturing for leverage before the two sides commit to a long-term deal, but you can't just assume that everything is going to work out.

 

And, as I'm sure Keyrock is presently lamenting, non-contact or no, injuries do happen at these things.  So attending just a few weeks in advance of signing your big cash-in 1st veteran contract is probably not a smart move.

 

I'm not, but I still found it hilarious.

 

Pity about Lee.

[Gromnir]

The consensus on the Giants picks thus far appears to be that they all look like useful players at positions of need for the team, but that they likely could have been gotten later on.  The first-rounder probably wasn't much of a reach, but all the talking heads had the Center they took in round 2 as a 3rd-round prospect and the DT they got in round 3 as a 3rd-day guy. 

 

NYG management has never been especially astute at draft-day horse trading.  The vast majority of the time, they sit at their spot and make their selections.  Ultimately, if they get good players, I don't really care where they were drafted (I remember intently how upset everybody was when they blew a 2nd rounder on some DE nobody had heard of named "Osi Umenyiora"), but I can't help but imagine that a more adventurous front office team could have brought in the same guys plus an extra pick or two to show for it. 

all us fans follow the draft 'cause we know a great draft (or two) can turn a team into a champion... and maybe even a dynasty.  bill walsh and chuck noll were great coaches, but they benefited from some historically fantastic drafts. jimmy johnson... well, Gromnir has never been convinced o' his Xs and Os acumen, but we would be seeming silly to fail to recognize his coaching. early in his career he had some o' the best drafts... evar. his draft genius seeming disappeared over time. funny how that happens. 

 

now, lets look at the ny giants. it usually takes 3-4 years to see if a draft was genuine successful. the 2010 draft for the giants was considered above-average at the time. jason-pierre paul were a win in the first round... sorta. he had two very productive years. unfortunately, he had back issues last year that necessitated surgery. will he regain his pre-surgery form? 'course injuries can be difficult to predict. the thing is, every other draft pick o' the ny giants from 2010 were waived or traded w/i 2 years. makes 2010 a fail for ny by any standard of measure.

 

were the scouts for the ny giants just a bunch of idiots in 2010? every pick waived or traded? 'course they weren't idiots. no matter how many man-hours o' effort or millions o' dollars an nfl teams invest, they don't have some secret formula for predicting nfl success. yeah, good research significant increases the odds, but so much o' the draft is just dumb luck, and regardless, you won't know for three to four years if the 2014 draft for the giants were any good.

 

that is the reason Gromnir is much in favor o' drafting team needs. a "reach" is something for mel kiper or the espn analysts to grouse 'bout. if you believe a player will help your team and he won't be available when you pick next, take him even if he is a reach. worst case scenario you probably have a back-up or practice squad player for a year or two. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps ignoring all the michael sam wackiness, we think the first half of the rams draft was excellent. 'course they had 2 picks in the top ten, so they better have had a good draft. the raiders didn't have a remarkably terrible draft, which is kinda remarkable in itself.

Edited June 1, 2014 by Gromnir

[Enoch]

no matter how many man-hours o' effort or millions o' dollars an nfl teams invest, they don't have some secret formula for predicting nfl success. yeah, good research significant increases the odds, but so much o' the draft is just dumb luck

 

This is largely the point of view I've come around to.  Sure, there are things teams can do to maximize their chance of success, but ultimately, the dumb luck factor is so huge that it's not especially fair to evaluate a management team on the tiny sample size that is the results of any particular draft (or even a multi-year sequence of drafts).  As the business-management folks would say, you evaluate based on process, not results.  And fans don't have enough access to really have useful insights about a team's processes in most cases. 

 

Given the dumb-luck factor in "hitting" on picks, the strategy I like is to maximize the number of picks your team has to work with. 

 

 

And, although I have no real interest in defending my team's past efforts (the inadequacy of which are a major reason behind the team's lousy results over the past 2 seasons), I will take some issue with your assessment of NYG's 2010 picks in the interest of making a broader point.  Specifically, that the willing departure of a player in free agency should not be considered a reason to criticize the decision to draft him in the first place.  A draft pick buys a team the exclusive right to employ a player at bargain-basement salaries for 4 or (for 1st-rounders) 5 years.  That's it, unless the team is willing to use the extreme measures of the Franchise or Transition tags to keep him.  Whether to employ the player beyond that point (at a much higher salary, if the player is any good) is an entirely separate consideration from the team's point of view. 

 

The Giants' 2nd round pick in 2010 was Linval Joseph, a defensive tackle who spent his rookie year on the bench and the following 3 years in the starting lineup, playing rather well.  Indeed, he played well enough that, a couple months ago, the Minnesota Vikings offered him a 5-year contract with $12.5M in guaranteed money and $31.5M in potential overall compensation.  The fact that the Giants were unwilling or unable to offer Joseph this much money (or, alternately, that Joseph simply didn't want to continue working for the employer that had been forced upon him by the NFL's draft system) doesn't make the team's 2010 decision to pick him any less wise. 

 

(Also, I note that NYG's 2010 3rd round pick is a good example of the dumb-luck factor:  Chad Jones had a catastrophic car accident shortly after signing his rookie contract.  He was lucky to learn to walk again, let alone play football.) 

Edited June 2, 2014 by Enoch

[Nepenthe]

Giants have around 6 mil salary cap at the moment, which probably is enough to prevent them from splurging a 5 year, 31,5 mil (with 3,5 mil for this year) contract on Joseph. Joseph already has the ring, so he's probably happy to work where he's paid best...

[Enoch]

Giants have around 6 mil salary cap at the moment, which probably is enough to prevent them from splurging a 5 year, 31,5 mil (with 3,5 mil for this year) contract on Joseph. Joseph already has the ring, so he's probably happy to work where he's paid best...

 

It was mostly a question of value.  They like Joseph, but, defensively, the Giants spend their money on pass-rushers and coverage guys.  Joseph is/was mostly a run-stuffer (9 sacks in 3 years as a starter; he often came off the field in clear passing situations), and he is very good at that, but the team feels that they can get that kind of performace on the cheap.  Also, they used a 2nd round draft pick last year on Jonathan Hankins, a DT who they see stepping into Joseph's "1-tech" role. 

Edited June 4, 2014 by Enoch

[Nepenthe]

Oh, look, I've been neglecting this thread...

 

So, on the "Off-Season activities front", last week my Helsinki Roosters won the inaugural IFAF champions' league: http://www.americanfootballinternational.com/helsinki-roosters-win-inaugural-ifaf-champions-league-tournament/

 

And so far this week Jimmy Graham's signed a four-year record-money tight end contract: http://www.americanfootballinternational.com/helsinki-roosters-win-inaugural-ifaf-champions-league-tournament/

[Nepenthe]

So, should we get a pool going on how long scrawny Manziell will survive if he starts? I'm currently guessing that he'll be IR'd by Orakpo on week 2, as Lions still have no credible pass rush AFAIK.

 

Saints start training camp today. So pretty much every morning for the next month I'm going to cringe when I see the letters A, C and L in a post.

 

And as this post's news from the Finnish league, European Champions Helsinki Roosters' QB Robert Johnson is out for the season with an unspecified knee injury. Considering he's been league MVP two years running, we're hosed.

[Enoch]

Saints start training camp today. So pretty much every morning for the next month I'm going to cringe when I see the letters A, C and L in a post.

Twitter and beat reporter blogs have made following a team through the offseason rather exhausting.  You hear about it every time a player gets up limping or goes to the sidelines, and wait with baited breath until the coach's press conference to see how quickly you should be giving up hope for the season. 

 

I'd kinda prefer the moment-to-moment stress of being a sports fan be confined to when actual games are being played.

[Gromnir]

 

Saints start training camp today. So pretty much every morning for the next month I'm going to cringe when I see the letters A, C and L in a post.

Twitter and beat reporter blogs have made following a team through the offseason rather exhausting.  You hear about it every time a player gets up limping or goes to the sidelines, and wait with baited breath until the coach's press conference to see how quickly you should be giving up hope for the season. 

 

I'd kinda prefer the moment-to-moment stress of being a sports fan be confined to when actual games are being played.

 

the only good thing about the over-coverage is that the old-skool attila the hun style o' coaching is less likely to occur nowadays.  back even as recent as the late 90s, more than a few training camps would look more like triage units than anything else. toughen guys up by making 'em run til they puke... and then have 'em run s'more. we has a close friend who is a successful agent, so we tagged along a couple o' times when he visited camps. am recalling one camp we witnessed had a tent set up for all the heatstroke and dehydration victims and there were more than 20 guys we could see with IVs in their arm getting 'em extra fluids. send out exhausted guys with borderline heatstroke and have them do full-contact drills-- act surprised when guys then get injured.

 

the full coverage has reduced some o' the worst jackassery by coaches. unfortunately, the over-the-top hazing by players is kept mostly away from cameras and reporters. have a notre dame rookie sing the usc fight song while wearing a frilly pink dress and serving lunch to team? sure, we get that kinda thing. but some o' the other stuff... *shudder*

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Nepenthe]

On the "Hardcore" front, Sean Payton also undertook the physical test along with the players. I wonder how many NFL coaches would be capable of that? O_o

[Nepenthe]

Oops, forgot the Finnish league news of the day from the last post (and couldn't edit any longer!)

 

So, the Roosters signed Sean Shelton from Elancourt Templiers for the rest of the season!

 

Edited July 25, 2014 by Nepenthe

[ManifestedISO]

On the "Hardcore" front, Sean Payton also undertook the physical test along with the players. I wonder how many NFL coaches would be capable of that? O_o

 

Not many. I'm saying our Mike McCoy could do it. He has a face that looks like it wins a lot of staring contests. 

[Gromnir]

 

On the "Hardcore" front, Sean Payton also undertook the physical test along with the players. I wonder how many NFL coaches would be capable of that? O_o

 

Not many. I'm saying our Mike McCoy could do it. He has a face that looks like it wins a lot of staring contests. 

 

am suspecting tomlin could have a couple years ago, but am not so sure if he could today. singletary were actual kinda old, but he were in ridiculous good shape. if you mean "coaches" and not head coaches, we believe many could survive the basic physical test. is more than a few position coaches who is former players or just super-jocks who has kept themselves in good shape. however, once you become a head coach, there is typical insufficient time to sleep, eat and shower much less workout.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Hurlshort]

Jim Harbaugh is in pretty good shape, he still goes out and throws balls to receivers, so he'd probably handle it.

[ManifestedISO]

No injuries. Oh my god there are no injured Chargers in training camp. Coach McCoy mandated stretching before, during, and after exercises. 

 

Week and a half 'till pre-season Thursday. Lord, let them start the year healthy.

[Nepenthe]

Heh, not sure what schedule I've been readin earlier, as week two is actually Saints at Browns... Might be a stressful week for the o-line, I'd sure be gunning for that douchebag manziel.

[Gfted1]

Tyron Smith, Cowboys strike eight-year, $98M deal.

 

Huzzah!

[kgambit]

Brandin Cooks looks like a gem.   

 

http://www.canalstreetchronicles.com/2014/7/31/5950345/saints-training-camp-2014-brandin-cooks-shines-early

 

Watch the Vine video .......

[Keyrock]

Tyron Smith, Cowboys strike eight-year, $98M deal.

 

Huzzah!

I approve, Tyron Smith is an elite level tackle.  Tackles of his level of talent are very hard to find.

[Nepenthe]

Texans should've traded that first pick...

[Gromnir]

 

Tyron Smith, Cowboys strike eight-year, $98M deal.

 

Huzzah!

I approve, Tyron Smith is an elite level tackle.  Tackles of his level of talent are very hard to find.

 

now if only he could play db, lb and de, we would predict an 8-8 season for the cowboys.

 

how on earth could the cowboys get so bad while having so much talent? 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gfted1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMor6dL0LfI&feature=youtu.be

[Enoch]

For those who wish to skip to the best part:

 

Edited August 12, 2014 by Enoch

[Nepenthe]

I'm gonna mail that to my boss as an explanation for why I obviously need to take another sick day.