Global Implications of the Ukraine Crisis

[Tagaziel]

have family members working as executives in Gazprom

That explains a lot. If my family had a stake in Gazprom, I'd probably be raised as a Russian apologist too.

 

"Tagaziel would complain if Russia gave the gas away for free since it would- obviously- be an attempt to curry favour and then reestablish the old soviet empire!"

 

You funny Zora but there is some truth in that statement if it ever happened which it won't  ...but I'm not a Troll. I stand by what I say on various issues because I believe it

It's funny how having a different opinion that isn't cynical gets you billed as a troll or a sheep.

 

As for Russia, I guess I'm a little skeptical because it's the country responsible for keeping Poland under its boot for 154 out of the last 200 years, with a long track record of imperialism, warmongering, genocide and ethnic cleansing, atrocities, totalitarianism, and crappy cars. That's just the 20th century alone to boot. Plus, it's helmed by a former KGB officer and recently confirmed that it's a hostile foreign power, so it's not really arbitrary skepticism.

 

As for "free gas", TANSTAAFL.

[obyknven]

Cirkus never ended. Canadian kakols Ukrainians demand ban of Russian vodka.

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/04/03/ndp-wants-ban-on-russian-vodka-sales-in-lcbo

Lol, these idiots don't understand difference between private business and Russia as state. It's funny but today Russia looks much more capitalistic than West: even after sanction Russians don't punish foreighn business in Russia, low taxes, profit 200 - 1000 %, simplified procedure of citizenship. Meanwhile on the West local tribal warlord can (and do ) destroy  (aka sanctions) any business without trial just because he want this, high taxes, low profit ( government want down oil prices to 50 $, but cost of US shale oil is 50-70 $ ) , etc.
 

[obyknven]

 

 

That explains a lot. If my family had a stake in Gazprom, I'd probably be raised as a Russian apologist too.

 

Jelaous poorfags are jelaous.

[obyknven]

 

It's funny how having a different opinion that isn't cynical gets you billed as a troll or a sheep.

 

As for Russia, I guess I'm a little skeptical because it's the country responsible for keeping Poland under its boot for 154 out of the last 200 years, with a long track record of imperialism, warmongering, genocide and ethnic cleansing, atrocities, totalitarianism, and crappy cars. That's just the 20th century alone to boot. Plus, it's helmed by a former KGB officer and recently confirmed that it's a hostile foreign power, so it's not really arbitrary skepticism.

 

As for "free gas", TANSTAAFL.

 

Yep, Poland for Russians is just yet another rebelled province Vistula Land inhabited by traitorous separatists. Punishment of your country for this is just question of time. Russians never forgive and never forget. Meanwhile US for us is grand enemy, but respectable and honorable enemy, our hate to them is form of our sadistic love.

[exodiark]

As much as I want to experience post-nuclear war wasteland, I don't think Crimea incident will go anywhere.
I mean, it's pretty obvious that Putin only wants the warm-water port, stoking political unrest in Ukraine to make it unappealing and uneconomical for NATO/EU to assimilate them is just an added bonus.

Also, International law is a joke, there's only one absolute rule on international stage: might makes right. The US is a living proof of this, which is why I think Putin said it best:

 

They tell us that we are violating the norms of international law. First of all, it's good that they at least remember that international law exists

 

 

So as long as there's opposing force (China, US), Russia won't take drastic measures. The world after nuclear bombs is very different from before.

[Sarex]

That explains a lot. If my family had a stake in Gazprom, I'd probably be raised as a Russian apologist too.

 

Instead you were raised as a Russophobic.

[BruceVC]

 

That explains a lot. If my family had a stake in Gazprom, I'd probably be raised as a Russian apologist too.

 

Instead you were raised as a Russophobic.

 

 

Nah, he is a Russian pragmatist. He is informed and accurate about his assessment of Russian foreign policy

[BruceVC]

 

 

It's funny how having a different opinion that isn't cynical gets you billed as a troll or a sheep.

 

As for Russia, I guess I'm a little skeptical because it's the country responsible for keeping Poland under its boot for 154 out of the last 200 years, with a long track record of imperialism, warmongering, genocide and ethnic cleansing, atrocities, totalitarianism, and crappy cars. That's just the 20th century alone to boot. Plus, it's helmed by a former KGB officer and recently confirmed that it's a hostile foreign power, so it's not really arbitrary skepticism.

 

As for "free gas", TANSTAAFL.

 

Yep, Poland for Russians is just yet another rebelled province Vistula Land inhabited by traitorous separatists. Punishment of your country for this is just question of time. Russians never forgive and never forget. Meanwhile US for us is grand enemy, but respectable and honorable enemy, our hate to them is form of our sadistic love.

 

 

 

"Punishment of your country for this is just question of time"

 

you make me laugh sometimes. But the scary thought is I wonder if some Russians do see Poland like this?

[Sarex]

Nah, he is a Russian pragmatist. He is informed and accurate about his assessment of Russian foreign policy

 

Ah, so he is accurate, but Zoraptor, 213374U and sorophx aren't? I haven't seen anything so far that would make them seem like Russian apologists, in fact if anyone has seen the situation objectively, it's them. While you and the rest of your cronies insist on painting the picture black and white, while also making the Russians out to be the villains of the world.

[obyknven]

 

 

 

"Punishment of your country for this is just question of time"

 

you make me laugh sometimes. But the scary thought is I wonder if some Russians do see Poland like this?

 

Yeah, some Russians do see like this

 

[ video removed ]

Edited April 4, 2014 by LadyCrimson
language in the posted media

[Tagaziel]

"Punishment of your country for this is just question of time"

 

you make me laugh sometimes. But the scary thought is I wonder if some Russians do see Poland like this?

Psychos, mostly. Guess the Dimitriads and 1920 still make some people sore.

 

Instead you were raised as a Russophobic.

Because being skeptical of Russia and its intentions, basing on its history and recent annexation of Crimea is totally Russophobia.

[obyknven]

Poll: Nigel Farage's favourite world leader is Putin. Who's yours?

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/iv-drip/poll-nigel-farages-favourite-world-leader-is-putin-whos-yours-9226480.html

 

Putin        82%

Merkel     7%

Obama    4%

Cameron 2%

 

Putin for President!

[213374U]

skeptical

 

That doesn't mean what you think it means.

[Malcador]

Kind of funny to read a comment on troll accusations being used to browbeat an opponent right under another one accusing a poster of basically being a shill.

[Zoraptor]

I stand by what I say on various issues because I believe it

 

 

So long as you believe mutually exclusive things- like Ukrainian gas prices should not be subsidised, except by Russia of all people; there should be freedom of speech, but things some people may find offensive should be banned etc- you're always going to come across as a troll because anyone with a grasp of basic logic is going to wonder why you're so frequently, and stridently, inconsistent and come up with the answer that you're trolling.

 

There's a reason people are convinced Oby is a troll, he posts vast amounts of pro Russian/ anti west stuff with very little in the way of consistency or logic about it, it isn't a consistent set of beliefs that an actual person would have but rather a bunch of stuff chosen to get a reaction and to fit Russia = good/ strong, west = bad/ weak. If you take the position that the IMF mandating an end to Ukrainian gas subsidies is good, but Russia ending them is bad you're doing exactly what Oby does. Your belief does not, in fact, have anything to do with the subsidies themselves. Your actual belief is that IMF = good, and Russia = bad so IMF ending subsidies must be good and Russia ending subsidies must be bad; and you contort the subsidy issue into a logic knot to try and fit that, basic, belief and narrative. Because it quite simply does not fit and you try to insist that it does it immediately make you look like a troll, because when viewed as being about subsidies alone you are taking a fundamentally inconsistent position- until you reduce it back to the actual equation.

[obyknven]

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-113hr4152enr/pdf/BILLS-113hr4152enr.pdf

His highness King Barack Hussein Obama II don't need proofs or trials for punishing enemies of US monarchy. Presumption of innocence? What is this?

[Walsingham]

I've been thinking about the Crimean vote in the context of the Afghan one happening just now.

 

I am not budging one inch from my position of active containment regarding Putin's ideology, but I think it's important to be honest.

 

How exactly is what happened in Crimea so much worse than votes being held in Iraq and Afghanistan? There are soldiers on the ground there.

[milczyciel]

"Punishment of your country for this is just question of time"

 

you make me laugh sometimes. But the scary thought is I wonder if some Russians do see Poland like this?

I've worked as a small hotel receptionist for 3 years and had quite a few Russian guests. They were never the Oby's type, but nonetheless they all (literally) shared one common trait - they were kinda "patronizing" (for the lack of better word) and couldn't (or didn't wanted to) understand why Poles are so stubborn about being left alone and not willing to get back to "one big happy family". I want to stress out that they were never hostile or angry about that, neither did they felt offended by our denial of those sentiments. IMHO it was more similar to the confusion of a small child who's mommy and daddy hate each other. Child that's to small to understand why do they have to live separately and how could they claim it's "for the best".

 

Coming from a broken family, I think it's the most suitable comparison I could make.

Edited April 4, 2014 by milczyciel

[Sarex]

I don't know if anyone has been following Obama's interviews on the issue of Crimea, but in one of his recent ones he states that Kosovo and Crimea are two different cases and right afters tells how Kosovo had a referendum, which is a straight up lie.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfO-cXnx0uE

[Walsingham]

As useful as it is to underscore that actual Russians aren't like oby, I have to point out that oby is as Russian as my fruitbasket.

[Sarex]

As useful as it is to underscore that actual Russians aren't like oby, I have to point out that oby is as Russian as my fruitbasket.

 

You bought your fruitbasket in Russia, can we see a picture?

[milczyciel]

As useful as it is to underscore that actual Russians aren't like oby, I have to point out that oby is as Russian as my fruitbasket.

I'll admit - I'm caught with my pants down here. That's what I believed from the moment I've red one of his post while ago (it must have been something about how cool it is to live in a country that suppress the rights of sexual minorities, long before I tried to reason with him in "Poland uber alles" thread).

 

But who the hell is he then? Who else than either some completely lost in his inner fantasy world Russian patriot (for way to long I lied myself that only kids are like that) or a laid off FSB employee could he be?

 

"Troll" does not come within the definition IMO

we must go deeper (forgive me the use of a tired meme)

[obyknven]

As useful as it is to underscore that actual Russians aren't like oby, I have to point out that oby is as Russian as my fruitbasket.

Tell to  me moar about Russians, its funny:lol:

Alexander Blok, the Scythians, 100 years ago

http://thescythianinexile.wordpress.com/2010/04/09/6/

You are but millions. Our unnumbered nations

Are as the sands upon the sounding shore.

We are the Scythians! We are the slit-eyed Asians!

Try to wage war with us—you’ll try no more!

You’ve had whole centuries. We—a single hour.

Like serfs obedient to their feudal lord,

We’ve held the shield between two hostile powers—

Old Europe and the barbarous Mongol horde.

Your ancient forge has hammered down the ages,

Drowning the distant avalanche’s roar.

Messina, Lisbon—these, you thought, were pages

In some strange book of legendary lore.

Full centuries long you’ve watched our Eastern lands,

Fished for our pearls and bartered them for grain;

Made mockery of us, while you laid your plans

And oiled your cannon for the great campaign.

The hour has come. Doom wheels on beating wing.

Each day augments the old outrageous score.

Soon not a trace of dead nor living thing

Shall stand where once your Paestums flowered before.

O Ancient World, before your culture dies,

Whilst failing life within you breathes and sinks,

Pause and be wise, as Oedipus was wise,

And solve the age-old riddle of the Sphinx.

That Sphinx is Russia. Grieving and exulting,

And weeping black and bloody tears enough,

She stares at you, adoring and insulting,

With love that turns to hate, and hate—to love.

Yes, love! For you of Western lands and birth

No longer know the love our blood enjoys.

You have forgoten there’s a love on Earth

That burns like fire and, like all fire, destroys.

We love cold Science passionately pursued;

The visionary fire of inspiration;

The salt of Gallic wit, so subtly shrewd,

And the grim genius of th German nation.

We know the hell of a Parisian street,

And Venice, cool in water and in stone;

The scent of lemons in the southern heat;

The fuming piles of soot-begrimed Cologne.

We love raw flesh, its color and its stench.

We love to taste it in our hungry maws.

Are we to blame then, if your ribs should crunch,

Fragile between our massive, gentle paws?

We know just how to play the cruel game

Of breaking in the most rebellious steeds;

And stubborn captive maids we also tame

And subjugate, to gratify our needs…

Come join us, then! Leave war and war’s alarms,

And grasp the hand of peace and amity.

While still there’s time, Comrades, lay down your arms!

Let us unite in true fraternity!

But if you spurn us, then we shall not mourn.

We too can reckon perfidy no crime,

And countless generations yet unborn

Shall curse your memory till the end of time.

We shall abandon Europe and her charm.

We shall resort to Scythian craft and guile.

Swift to the woods and forests we shall swarm,

And then look back, and smile our slit-eyed smile.

Away to the Urals, all! Quick, leave the land,

And clear the field for trial by blood and sword,

Where steel machines that have no soul must stand

And face the fury of the Mongol horde.

But we ourselves, henceforth, we shall not serve

As henchmen holding up the trusty shield.

We’ll keep our distance and, slit-eyed, observe

The deadly conflict raging on the field.

We shall not stir, even though the frenzied Huns

Plunder the corpses of the slain in battle, drive

Their cattle into shrines, burn cities down,

And roast their white-skinned fellow men alive.

O ancient World, arise! For the last time

We call you to the ritual feast and fire

Of peace and brotherhood! For the last time

O hear the summons of the barbarian lyre!

http://youtu.be/2wVzZ49nivE

 

Russian Anonymus,  "Русские, не связывайся с ними"  or "Dont mess with Russians", present days, same thing.

http://youtu.be/AN7KB90wND0

[obyknven]

 

As useful as it is to underscore that actual Russians aren't like oby, I have to point out that oby is as Russian as my fruitbasket.

I'll admit - I'm caught with my pants down here. That's what I believed from the moment I've red one of his post while ago (it must have been something about how cool it is to live in a country that suppress the rights of sexual minorities, long before I tried to reason with him in "Poland uber alles" thread).

 

But who the hell is he then? Who else than either some completely lost in his inner fantasy world Russian patriot (for way to long I lied myself that only kids are like that) or a laid off FSB employee could he be?

 

"Troll" does not come within the definition IMO

we must go deeper (forgive me the use of a tired meme)

 

Google "Russian Ambassadors to meet Vladimir Putin's objectives on Ukraine within UN" for example. It's typical Russian behaviour now. If someone don't want be our brother (and even try become our enemy), then he become our slave. If you're not with us you're against us.

[Tagaziel]

What would scare me most, rather than oby being a paid promoter of Russia, is that he is a genuine believer. Think about it, a guy getting paid per post, cynically posting the most outrageous crap so that the Big Lie eclipses the small lie, and laughing his ass off at trolling other users.