Ukraine Redux

[Zoraptor]

Both you  2133  are not going to drop the circumstances of the  Yanukovich "resignation/being disposed". Is this the most important factor to you around the situation in Ukraine? Is this the reason that for you Russia has iillegally entered Crimea and is basically about to annex it, so in other words the whole crisis  is caused by the reasons how Yanukovich was removed from power?

 

Well, clearly. Crimea had voted to be independent at least twice previous, but not within the past 19 years up until their democratically elected President was illegally deposed, by those who'd lost the previous election, in a long planned operation, with outside help, after abrogating international agreements. They have zero reason to trust at all. Inviting the Russians in to protect them from oppression from Kiev- which had twice (now three times) disregarded their independence votes and has labelled their constitutionally valid parliament, the single concession made to the independence sentiment, as illegal- is an eminently sensible step. That they may now feel that instead of independence they need to be protected as an integral part of Russia is a consequence of Kiev's repeated actions, I'm afraid.

[BruceVC]

 

Both you  2133  are not going to drop the circumstances of the  Yanukovich "resignation/being disposed". Is this the most important factor to you around the situation in Ukraine? Is this the reason that for you Russia has iillegally entered Crimea and is basically about to annex it, so in other words the whole crisis  is caused by the reasons how Yanukovich was removed from power?

 

Well, clearly. Crimea had voted to be independent at least twice previous, but not within the past 19 years up until their democratically elected President was illegally deposed, by those who'd lost the previous election, in a long planned operation, with outside help, after abrogating international agreements. They have zero reason to trust at all. Inviting the Russians in to protect them from oppression from Kiev- which had twice (now three times) disregarded their independence votes and has labelled their constitutionally valid parliament, the single concession made to the independence sentiment, as illegal- is an eminently sensible step. That they may now feel that instead of independence they need to be protected as an integral part of Russia is a consequence of Kiev's repeated actions, I'm afraid.

 

 

Okay thanks for responding, you and I have fundamental different views on why Russia is involved in Crimea and we are never going to agree with each other. And thats fine as we are all entitled to our opinions , no point debating this particular issue further

[213374U]

1) Accepting Yanukovych's resignation is not a procedure outside of those prescribed in the constitution.  

2) The Rada claims that Yanukovych's failure to perform his duties was tantamount to resignation and is grounds for constitutional removal.

 

Take the issue up with the Rada or the Ukrainian Constitutional Court (or at least the 12 remaining judges)  if you disagree.  

 

1) Show me proof that this has actually happened. The Rada accepting a nonexistent resignation from an absent President is... less than reassuring.

2) The Rada claiming that their acts are lawful because they acted on the basis of them saying they are lawful is circular logic. We've been there already.

 

I don't have to take the issue up with the Rada because it's not them legitimizing their actions on these boards, it's you.

 

 

 

 

 

I am not putting words into your mouth,

 

Yes you were and I'm done with this.  Have a nice evening. 

 

Never gets old when people need to shift from one foot to another so fast that they end up tripping on their own comments. You said (after edit):

 

The illegal impeachment argument is at least dead since that wasn't the Rada's intent. 

 

This is an admission that it is not by an impeachment process that Y. was dismissed. Again, it's an either/or situation. I hate repeating myself but:

 

 - If it was not impeachment, then a procedure outside of those prescribed by the Constitution for ending the mandate of the President prematurely has been followed → unlawful dismissal.

 

Therefore, your admission that he was not impeached necessarily implies that an unconstitutional process was followed through to depose Y., resulting in an unlawful dismissal. This is a basic syllogism and the conclusion follows directly from these two premises:

 

 - Yanukovych was not deposed by means of impeachment

 - Any reasons given for ending his mandate early outside of those prescribed in art. 108 are by definition unconstitutional, and therefore unlawful

 

If you can't deal with the logical consequences of your own arguments, I can't help you there.

 

Now, however, you have changed tactics and are clinging to the possibility that Y. did in fact resign. But if he did resign, the Rada did not need to pass a vote on his resignation. So, I ask again, which one is it?

 

There is precedent (as usual) of political actors acting unlawfully to advance their agendas and being retroactively legitimized. This involves judicial review and would possibly paralyze the government until it's sorted out, undoubtedly favorably for the new government. The trouble is that going that way can put a dent on the official rhetoric that the referendum in Crimea is unlawful (which it is). Law can cut both ways like that.

 

 

 

Okay thanks for responding, you and I have fundamental different views on why Russia is involved in Crimea and we are never going to agree with each other. And thats fine as we are all entitled to our opinions , no point debating this particular issue further

 

Why the allergy to debate? This sort of "I'm entrenched in my views, you are entrenched in yours, let's be happy together in our pigheadedness" is fundamentally irrational and useless. It's a sad state of affairs when people have lost the ability to revise their views in light of evidence. Is your ego so inflated that you cannot even entertain the idea of "losing face" to a bunch of internets strangers? I don't know which is worse: that or the very notion that admitting that one's original pov may have been wrong is equated with "losing face". Heh.

Edited March 12, 2014 by 213374U

[kgambit]

 

TLDR

 

 

I said I was done engaging you.  Bye bye. 

Edited March 12, 2014 by kgambit

[BruceVC]

 

Okay thanks for responding, you and I have fundamental different views on why Russia is involved in Crimea and we are never going to agree with each other. And thats fine as we are all entitled to our opinions , no point debating this particular issue further

 

Why the allergy to debate? This sort of "I'm entrenched in my views, you are entrenched in yours, let's be happy together in our pigheadedness" is fundamentally irrational and useless. It's a sad state of affairs when people have lost the ability to revise their views in light of evidence. Is your ego so inflated that you cannot even entertain the idea of "losing face" to a bunch of internets strangers? I don't know which is worse: that or the very notion that admitting that one's original pov may have been wrong is equated with "losing face". Heh.

 

 

Oh 2133 your post made me laugh, I loved the pseudo psychoanalysis of my rationale..well said   But you'll have to try much, much harder than that to get a negative response from me

 

 

 But you also misunderstand my motives. You and Zora are completely intransigent on certain topics to the point where I think you feel admitting you wrong somehow diminishes you, you've both proved that regularly. Its a waste of my time trying to convince you. There are other  topics where people are more receptive to a different view. So I'll focus on those when I can

[obyknven]

US continue generate **** in Ukraine.

 

Anonymous Ukraine hack correspondence of US Army Attache Assistant in Kiev and discover a plot against Ukraine

 

   Hello
 We are Anonymous Ukraine

We have hacked e-mail correspondence of US Army Attache Assistant in Kiev Jason Gresh and a high ranking official from Ukrainian General Staff Igor Protsyk.

It appears that they are planning to conduct a series of attacks on Ukrainian military bases in order to destabilize the situation in Ukraine.

Particularly, Jason Gresh writes to Igor Protsyk that it’s time to implement a plan that implies “causing problems to the transport hubs in the south-east of Ukraine in order to frame-up the neighbor. It will create favorable conditions for Pentagon to act”, says Jason Gresh.

In his turn, Protsyk writes to some Vasil and tells him to arrange an attack on an airbase of 25 aviation brigade of Ukrainian air force stationed in Melitopol.

This Vasil is responsible for arranging the details of the attack, gathering of the gunmen and providing them with a map of sites that are chosen to be attacked.

We strongly recommend everyone to look through these documents. There you will find all the details.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/fso0k2ry5yzhr8a/protsyk.7z

https://shared.com/pj5ayc9im8?s=l

http://depositfiles.com/files/nsj5poqlb

We will protect Ukraine from Western hirelings and fascists that are trying to hurl Ukraine into chaos! We do not want them to start a war! Expect us

We are Anonymous Ukraine.
 We are the Patriots of our country.
 We Do Not Forgive.
 We Do Not Forget.
 Expect Us.

[Malcador]

Heh and you're doing psychoanalysis on them, no ?  He did well enough to get that passive aggressive response too, which is about as close to negative you'll brave, I suppose.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Malcador

[obyknven]

http://youtu.be/b8K2YeOWeuo

[Gorgon]

US continue generate **** in Ukraine.

 

Anonymous Nashi Ukraine 

 

It's a bit telling that they couldn't get the grammar right. 

[TrashMan]

 

Also I want to recognize and appreciate the point that  you acknowledge the fact that during WW2 the Croats did commit atrocities You aren't avoiding this but this is in the past and it doesn't reflect Croatia today. Its the same thing for me around Apartheid, I know South Africa implemented a racist system that dehumanized people based on the color of there skin. But it doesn't define me or my country nowadays. And it isn't something that I personally feel guilty about. This is one of the reasons I am such a supporter of social justice, I use to live in a country that legalized bigotry and I know how harmful it can be.

 

I have had several discussions with Serbs, like Sarex, about the Bosnian War and they generally either deny atrocities that happened or have a very different perspective to what most people believe. To accept something that happened in a countries past doesn't undermine your country or make you a terrible person. In fact I would argue it shows strength as you accept the truth about your history but you look forward to a more positive future and how you won't repeat the mistakes of the past

 

 

1) There were two groups of d*** - comunists and fascists. They hated eachother with a passion and during the short time they grabbed power they were at eachothers throats. Alas, they were both paranoid and power-hungry, so they pretty much purged everyone who didn't fall with their party line. They were even mass executing priests and burning down churches.

Thankfully the croatian people had enough of their bulls*** and they can't repeat that stuff again. Buut.. they are still both heavily into politics, so you can find them stealing and lying their asses. Our political landscape is therefore a mess of corruption and incompetence... but at least no more secret police and killings.

 

2) I was talking in more general terms about the war in the YU and how it started. My knowledge of the war in Bosnia is not first-hand, given that I didn't leave Croatia during it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sarex wrote

Yeah, classic Croatian propaganda, we were the victim, the Serbs started it, 200 thousand Serbs just left of their own free will.

 

Propaganda?

I'd say the true masters was Serbia. I watched serbian news during the war. And croatian. And foregin ones.

The interviews with serbian generals claiming to have captured a division of US infantry or shooting down multiple US planes. Gold. I was laughing my ass off.

 

 

And yes, those people packed up and left. Because the YU army told them to leave. Ordered them in fact. And probably told them that the CA army will kill them all.

Not sure if that counts as "of own free will", but it's not the CA that forced them.

 

And because they feared reprisals - some of them justly, given what they did.

Quite a few of those civilians grabbed a weapon and started shooting their neighbours the second the war started.

 

 

 

 

 

The facts are that even today your political factions are cultivating national hate towards us, while our country has since let go of this. Croats are free to come to our cities, while Serbians are chased and beaten in yours. Your businessman are allowed to work in our country while ours are stonewall in yours. So tell me more who was motivated by hate and nationalism in the war...

 

Hate?

For Milošević, for the government, for the military.. probably.

For Serbia as a country, for the people? Not at all. People were lied to en-masse.

I had great serbian friends before the war and I still have them.

 

As for the rest...I hate to call you a liar, but that is simply not true.

Edited March 12, 2014 by TrashMan

[213374U]

 

 

TLDR

 

 

I said I was done engaging you.  Bye bye. 

 

 

> "bye bye I'm quitting teh internets forevar"

> posts a reply ten minutes after last one

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay thanks for responding, you and I have fundamental different views on why Russia is involved in Crimea and we are never going to agree with each other. And thats fine as we are all entitled to our opinions , no point debating this particular issue further

 

Why the allergy to debate? This sort of "I'm entrenched in my views, you are entrenched in yours, let's be happy together in our pigheadedness" is fundamentally irrational and useless. It's a sad state of affairs when people have lost the ability to revise their views in light of evidence. Is your ego so inflated that you cannot even entertain the idea of "losing face" to a bunch of internets strangers? I don't know which is worse: that or the very notion that admitting that one's original pov may have been wrong is equated with "losing face". Heh.

 

 

Oh 2133 your post made me laugh, I loved the pseudo psychoanalysis of my rationale..well said   But you'll have to try much, much harder than that to get a negative response from me

 

 

 But you also misunderstand my motives. You and Zora are completely intransigent on certain topics to the point where I think you feel admitting you wrong somehow diminishes you, you've both proved that regularly. Its a waste of my time trying to convince you. There are other  topics where people are more receptive to a different view. So I'll focus on those when I can

 

 

 

Don't take it personally. At the end of the day, to me you are just another inconsequential nobody on the internet, you don't warrant especial attention. I mostly just stick to the arguments people make. I quoted you because you were the last to put it into words, but the "agree to disagree" mentality on just about anything is something I see as particularly impoverishing and ultimately anathema to the whole idea of a discussion board. And the fact that I continue to engage your and others' points despite extreme repetition and constant goal post shifting should be proof enough that I'm anything but unwilling to consider other viewpoints. You have only relatively recently begun posting here, but I've pulled a few U-turns in the close to ten years I've been here. I've been smacked around good by others too, but so what. Just because you can't convince me on a particular issue it doesn't mean I cannot be convinced.

 

"Pseudo psychoanalysis", heh. I've got the full pseudo intellectual package (complete with the latin sig and Van Gogh pic to round out the experience), so you shouldn't be surprised. Can't really produce solid rebuttals to my points I've observed, though. Think about that.

Edited March 12, 2014 by 213374U

[Rostere]

Who cares about whether Yanukovich was lawfully dismissed or not? Have you seen his estate? That man is essentially the spider in a web of corruption in the heart of darkness. The amounts of money that have been embezzled from the Ukrainian people can never be returned - even if European countries now have seized the European assets of Yanukovich and his "family" of corrupt kleptocrats.

 

I know I'm usually a law-and-order guy, but if there's one thing I can't stand it's this type of corruption and theft of a nation's resources. With the kinds of sums involved, this has turned into another game entirely - of course the best thing would be to see Yanukovich et compani in front of the ICC. But if an easier solution is that he is hung, drawn and quartered by the Ukrainians, then so be it. Escaping to Russia is really getting away without sufficient punishment in his case. Yanukovich' depletion of monetary reserves might very well plunge Ukraine into the same fiery pit as Greece (or worse), and in the end it will of course be the people, as always, who will suffer for choosing criminals such as him for their leaders. Yanukovich might well have stolen the future of some 45 million Ukrainians, which makes him one of the worst traitors imaginable.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

Don't take it personally. At the end of the day, to me you are just another inconsequential nobody on the internet, you don't warrant especial attention. I mostly just stick to the arguments people make. I quoted you because you were the last to put it into words, but the "agree to disagree" mentality on just about anything is something I see as particularly impoverishing and ultimately anathema to the whole idea of a discussion board. And the fact that I continue to engage your and others' points despite extreme repetition and constant goal post shifting should be proof enough that I'm anything but unwilling to consider other viewpoints. You have only relatively recently begun posting here, but I've pulled a few U-turns in the close to ten years I've been here. I've been smacked around good by others too, but so what. Just because you can't convince me on a particular issue it doesn't mean I cannot be convinced.

 

"Pseudo psychoanalysis", heh. I've got the full pseudo intellectual package (complete with the latin sig and Van Gogh pic to round out the experience), so you shouldn't be surprised. Can't really produce solid rebuttals to my points I've observed, though. Think about that.

 

 

I always find your opinion so interesting so thanks for the response but this looks like a classic BruceVC "we will have to agree to disagree"

 

Do you still love me

[BruceVC]

Who cares about whether Yanukovich was lawfully dismissed or not? Have you seen his estate? That man is essentially the spider in a web of corruption in the heart of darkness. The amounts of money that have been embezzled from the Ukrainian people can never be returned - even if European countries now have seized the European assets of Yanukovich and his "family" of corrupt kleptocrats.

 

I know I'm usually a law-and-order guy, but if there's one thing I can't stand it's this type of corruption and theft of a nation's resources. With the kinds of sums involved, this has turned into another game entirely - of course the best thing would be to see Yanukovich et compani in front of the ICC. But if an easier solution is that he is hung, drawn and quartered by the Ukrainians, then so be it. Escaping to Russia is really getting away without sufficient punishment in his case. Yanukovich' depletion of monetary reserves might very well plunge Ukraine into the same fiery pit as Greece (or worse), and in the end it will of course be the people, as always, who will suffer for choosing criminals such as him for their leaders. Yanukovich might well have stolen the future of some 45 million Ukrainians, which makes him one of the worst traitors imaginable.

 

Those are excellent points raised, its amazing that people still think the most relevant point about the crisis is "was Yanukovich illegally removed ". What he did during his reign of Ukraine seems irrelevant to them

[Malcador]

Probably due to complaints about illegality and talk of justice and what not from those that gave him the boot.   For the billions embezzled, was it just him or him and some of those still there, now ?

[Meshugger]

I am a bit confused about what a fascist is after reading this thread.

[Sarex]

 

So much for your information, you don't even remember what you watched. It was not US troops it was a French KFOR division in Lukavica and we shot down a Mirage captured the pilots and a F16, the pilot escaped.

 

As for operation Storm, you should be ashamed of your self. That is the single biggest lie you said so far. What did Tudjman say in the Croatian high command meting in Brioni(31st of july 1995.), right before Operation Storm? He said "We should give the Serbs a hit that they won't recover from". Are you even listening your self? Serbs left their homes to run because they were told to do so, not because of the Croatian army coming for them?

 

Want me pull up Croatian news, about the Serbs who were mistreated in Croatia recently? For **** sake, even a Croatian ex-officer had his car wrecked in Split because it had Belgrade number plates.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Sarex

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I am a bit confused about what a fascist is after reading this thread.

Someone who discriminates against facial charecteristics.

[BruceVC]

 

I am a bit confused about what a fascist is after reading this thread.

Someone who discriminates against facial charecteristics.

 

 

[Meshugger]

 

I am a bit confused about what a fascist is after reading this thread.

Someone who discriminates against facial charecteristics.

 

 

Touché!

[Zoraptor]

Who cares about whether Yanukovich was lawfully dismissed or not? Have you seen his estate? That man is essentially the spider in a web of corruption in the heart of darkness. The amounts of money that have been embezzled from the Ukrainian people can never be returned - even if European countries now have seized the European assets of Yanukovich and his "family" of corrupt kleptocrats.

Problem is that it isn't getting rid of the spider at the heart of the web of corruption- it's swapping the spider out for another one. I've seen Yanukovich's house, but I've also seen, for example, Yulia Tymoshenko's house. And the new government with its new broom has appointed... a bunch of oligarchs (most of whom got to be oligarchs the way everyone in the ex USSR did, via corruption) as regional governors. That isn't a new broom, it's same old same old, jobs for those they think will keep the east quiescent via the old methods of patronage.

[TrashMan]

So much for your information, you don't even remember what you watched. It was not US troops it was a French KFOR division in Lukavica and we shot down a Mirage captured the pilots and a F16, the pilot escaped.

 

My information is correct and I remember very well what I watched.

Interviews on serbian TV with serbian generals, telling tales of impossible victories against opponents that were never there.

Multiple shot down aircraft or various types. Routed US ground troops. Etc, etc..

The propaganda was glorious.

 

But I got to give it to the serbian populace, they stick together like glue and and defiant to the last. I still remember masses of civilians with targets painted on them during NATO bombings, and the blind sebian poet saying "even I saw it" when the serbians managed to shoot down a F-117.

 

 

 

As for operation Storm, you should be ashamed of your self. That is the single biggest lie you said so far. What did Tudjman say in the Croatian high command meting in Brioni(31st of july 1995.), right before Operation Storm? He said "We should give the Serbs a hit that they won't recover from". Are you even listening your self? Serbs left their homes to run because they were told to do so, not because of the Croatian army coming for them?

 

There is no shame in truth.

And the truth is that there was no organized ethnic clensing.

Now, I don't know what you think the line from Tuđman proves, because it doesn't prove anything. Operations Storm did deliver a hit to the YU army (a.k.a. Serbs) that it didn't recover from.

 

And yes. They WERE told to leave. I can link a dozen videos of serbian generals and priests gathering people and ordering them to leave. And telling them horror stories of what the CA would do to them.

 

The Croatian Army didn't gather serbs and force-marched them into Serbia.

There can be no talk of ethnic clensing if the army in question didn't force civilians into anything.

 

 

 

Want me pull up Croatian news, about the Serbs who were mistreated in Croatia recently? For **** sake, even a Croatian ex-officer had his car wrecked in Split because it had Belgrade number plates.

 

The entire train of thought is redicolous.

Serbs are innocent little lambs that hold no grudges and everything is rainbows and sunshine in Serbia, while Crotia is a cess pool of hate? Yeah, right.

Would a story of serbians torching a croats car even make it on the news there? I seriously doubt it.

 

Funny how there are serbs in my town right now and no one is bothering them.

 

Why don't you just admit that there are still people in both countries that have issues, but as a general rule you won't find lynch mobs. Because that's the truth of it. Most people have either moved on or have enough self-control not to do stupid things.

Edited March 13, 2014 by TrashMan

[Sarex]

My information is correct and I remember very well what I watched.

Interviews on serbian TV with serbian generals, telling tales of impossible victories against opponents that were never there.

Multiple shot down aircraft or various types. Routed US ground troops. Etc, etc..

The propaganda was glorious.

 

But I got to give it to the serbian populace, they stick together like glue and and defiant to the last. I still remember masses of civilians with targets painted on them during NATO bombings, and the blind sebian poet saying "even I saw it" when the serbians managed to shoot down a F-117.

 

OK, if you are so adamant about it, then link me a video of the generals saying those thing. There were victories, we did shoot down multiple jet fighters, I just told you these things. We also shot down 2 F-117a during the NATO bombings.

 

 

There is no shame in truth.

And the truth is that there was no organized ethnic clensing.

Now, I don't know what you think the line from Tuđman proves, because it doesn't prove anything. Operations Storm did deliver a hit to the YU army (a.k.a. Serbs) that it didn't recover from.

 

And yes. They WERE told to leave. I can link a dozen videos of serbian generals and priests gathering people and ordering them to leave. And telling them horror stories of what the CA would do to them.

 

The Croatian Army didn't gather serbs and force-marched them into Serbia.

There can be no talk of ethnic clensing if the army in question didn't force civilians into anything.

 

So I repeat my question 200 thousand Serbs just left because they were bored? What about the 1000 civilians killed? Don't twist the quote, well maybe I did translate it very well, what the quote meant is that the Serbs in Croatia don't recover not Serbs in general. Do you want me to quote the rest of the transcripts from Tudjman, because you obviously haven't read them when you claim these things.

 

 

The entire train of thought is redicolous.

Serbs are innocent little lambs that hold no grudges and everything is rainbows and sunshine in Serbia, while Crotia is a cess pool of hate? Yeah, right.

Would a story of serbians torching a croats car even make it on the news there? I seriously doubt it.

 

Funny how there are serbs in my town right now and no one is bothering them.

 

Why don't you just admit that there are still people in both countries that have issues, but as a general rule you won't find lynch mobs. Because that's the truth of it. Most people have either moved on or have enough self-control not to do stupid things.

 

Because that simply isn't true, Croats work here, Croatian products are on our shelves, no Croatians cars are burned and it would be news. While when I went on a school trip to Italy the bus wouldn't stop in Zagreb because they feared we would get assaulted. Spread all the lies you want, I have proof to back up my stories.

[obyknven]

Achtung! Shocking news from Ukraine! Russian military forces occupy Kiev!

http://youtu.be/oJbFUvmmnbk

[TrashMan]

OK, if you are so adamant about it, then link me a video of the generals saying those thing. There were victories, we did shoot down multiple jet fighters, I just told you these things. We also shot down 2 F-117a during the NATO bombings.

 

 

Yeah, and I bet you stormed the White House too.

 

I really don't have time to go hunting for the videos now, but I can try to find them later.

Meanwhile, mayhaps you would like to prove proof of said military victories?

 

 

 

So I repeat my question 200 thousand Serbs just left because they were bored? What about the 1000 civilians killed? Don't twist the quote, well maybe I did translate it very well, what the quote meant is that the Serbs in Croatia don't recover not Serbs in general. Do you want me to quote the rest of the transcripts from Tudjman, because you obviously haven't read them when you claim these things.

 

Bored? What a silly strawman.

They left for various reasons, chief of them that they were afraid and they were told to.

And I don't recall ever saying that no Serbs died in the aftermath. It was a war after all, and in rural areas where you're less likely to get caught, you will have crimes commited.

 

As for the transcripts..again, don't take things out of context. I did read it, but it provides no real evidence of anything.

 

 

 

Why don't you just admit that there are still people in both countries that have issues, but as a general rule you won't find lynch mobs. Because that's the truth of it. Most people have either moved on or have enough self-control not to do stupid things.

 

Because that simply isn't true, Croats work here, Croatian products are on our shelves, no Croatians cars are burned and it would be news. While when I went on a school trip to Italy the bus wouldn't stop in Zagreb because they feared we would get assaulted. Spread all the lies you want, I have proof to back up my stories.

 

And Serbs live and work here. I'm living in a tourist town that gets lots of traffic, so there's plenty of Serbs passing trough or staying here all the time. I only recall 2 minor incidents in all these years.

 

Given the massive amounts of propaganda Serbian TV uses, I wouldn't be surprised if similar incident never make it to the news there.

 

As for you.. so the bus never even stopped? Therefore, you cannot even know if your fears were unfounded or not. So what proof do you exactly have?

That's like me saying that my friend avoiding traveling trough Serbia proves that Serbs all want to kill us.