Thief 4

[Gorgon]

Is it Ascreed style stealth where being discovered means restarting from the last checkpoint or does it have melee mechanics like the old games ?

[Nepenthe]

I almost preordered this game but after seeing some early reviews and impressions, I decided to hold off till a good sale and start over on my play through of Dishonored which I have been quite enjoying due to the freedom allowed.

I managed to cancel my preorder for similar reasons.

[Woldan]

I don't need no Thief 4, I'd sell my soul for a remake of Thief: The Dark project and Thief:The Metal Age with a modern graphics engine. Imagine the sunken Hammerite cathedral rendered in the Unreal 4 Engine.  Gives me shivers. 

[sesobebo]

I don't need no Thief 4, I'd sell my soul for a remake of Thief: The Dark project and Thief:The Metal Age with a modern graphics engine. Imagine the sunken Hammerite cathedral rendered in the Unreal 4 Engine.  Gives me shivers.

have You tried the Dark Mod?

[TheChris92]

As I'm sure you are aware the major complaints are that it's linear and you get context buttons and button mashing sequences. The thief games always tried to give you exploration, in this case they opted to make it look as pretty as the puny new gen consoles were able, and sacrificed core gameplay elements in the process.

This is usually what they always do in this day & age - Simply look at Hitman Absolution or Splinter Cell Conviction.

Edited March 10, 2014 by TheChris92

[Nepenthe]

 

As I'm sure you are aware the major complaints are that it's linear and you get context buttons and button mashing sequences. The thief games always tried to give you exploration, in this case they opted to make it look as pretty as the puny new gen consoles were able, and sacrificed core gameplay elements in the process.

 

This is usually what they always do in this day & age - Simply look at Hitman Absolution or Splinter Cell Conviction.

Nah, keeping my eyes on Deus Ex Human Revolution. I had high expectations for these guys, even if it was an obvious B-team.

[TheChris92]

 

 

As I'm sure you are aware the major complaints are that it's linear and you get context buttons and button mashing sequences. The thief games always tried to give you exploration, in this case they opted to make it look as pretty as the puny new gen consoles were able, and sacrificed core gameplay elements in the process.

This is usually what they always do in this day & age - Simply look at Hitman Absolution or Splinter Cell Conviction.

Nah, keeping my eyes on Deus Ex Human Revolution. I had high expectations for these guys, even if it was an obvious B-team.

 

My comment was merely meant to point out the ham-handed handling of the stealth genre today -- Putting scripted events and pretty scenery on top as opposed to sprawly sandbox-fun. That's a big no-no. Thief is simply stepping into line. Human Revolution was a great game although it's no secret that it too was severely streamlined which is still distressing.

[Bryy]

I was watching Disney's Robin Hood last night, and now I want that as a stealth game.

[Nepenthe]

 

 

 

As I'm sure you are aware the major complaints are that it's linear and you get context buttons and button mashing sequences. The thief games always tried to give you exploration, in this case they opted to make it look as pretty as the puny new gen consoles were able, and sacrificed core gameplay elements in the process.

This is usually what they always do in this day & age - Simply look at Hitman Absolution or Splinter Cell Conviction.

Nah, keeping my eyes on Deus Ex Human Revolution. I had high expectations for these guys, even if it was an obvious B-team.

 

My comment was merely meant to point out the ham-handed handling of the stealth genre today -- Putting scripted events and pretty scenery on top as opposed to sprawly sandbox-fun. That's a big no-no. Thief is simply stepping into line. Human Revolution was a great game although it's no secret that it too was severely streamlined which is still distressing.

 

Not sure I agree re HR's streamlining...

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

As I'm sure you are aware the major complaints are that it's linear and you get context buttons and button mashing sequences. The thief games always tried to give you exploration, in this case they opted to make it look as pretty as the puny new gen consoles were able, and sacrificed core gameplay elements in the process.

This is usually what they always do in this day & age - Simply look at Hitman Absolution or Splinter Cell Conviction.

Nah, keeping my eyes on Deus Ex Human Revolution. I had high expectations for these guys, even if it was an obvious B-team.

 

My comment was merely meant to point out the ham-handed handling of the stealth genre today -- Putting scripted events and pretty scenery on top as opposed to sprawly sandbox-fun. That's a big no-no. Thief is simply stepping into line. Human Revolution was a great game although it's no secret that it too was severely streamlined which is still distressing.

 

Not sure I agree re HR's streamlining...

 

 

Come now Nep, he's from the region. The least you can is agree with him in the interests of Scandinavian brotherhood

[Tagaziel]

Nah, keeping my eyes on Deus Ex Human Revolution. I had high expectations for these guys, even if it was an obvious B-team.

Thi4f wasn't made by the team that made DX:HR. Same studio, different teams.

 

Well, about the gameplay itself. It's a very good game, and a more than decent Thief for the 2010s, but it lacks the flow, freedom and finesse that Dishonored had in spades. Also, the AI of the baddies is less impressive. It's often inconsistent and nonsensical, almost. I play at the mid-difficulty level, with most options on. However, with the lean function and even no focus points at all, I can sneak pretty close to most hostiles. They rarely open doors or collaborate (however, their hands stick out through doors, so I can see where they are, hehe). Whether your detected or not is a bit roughshod. Sometimes, they feel you through walls, other times, not at all. So far, I rarely use anything in my inventory, as opposed to Dishonored, where it was the hub of the game, almost (disregarding certain challenging playthroughs). My worst criticism, however, is the lack of freedom. It's almost as linear as Bioshock Infinite, and even weirder: Garrett can't jump up on things or climb the simplest gutter pipes. The game decides for you where you can jump or where you can shoot a rope arrow into some wooden beam (almost never); essentially this cripples the seemingly agile, fit and skilful Garrett. This flaw is hard to swallow, but as long as you buy that and just play, Thief is at least better than Bioshock Infinite (perhaps not the story, as I have just scratched upon that one - so far, it seems New Age-y and thin). I recommend the game as being quite decent, but perhaps not worth the full asking price on Steam. I'm glad I managed to get it at half price.

Thanks for the great summary. May I point out something? You're saying it's a very good game and then list severe flaws which mean it's not one. I'd say it's better to say that it's a fun game overall. Kind of like burgers are very tasty, but ain't very good cuisine.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Tagaziel

[TheChris92]

 

Come now Nep, he's from the region. The least you can is agree with him in the interests of Scandinavian brotherhood

Unless he's from Norway then the idea of a Brotherhood would be absurd.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Come now Nep, he's from the region. The least you can is agree with him in the interests of Scandinavian brotherhood

Unless he's from Norway then the idea of a Brotherhood would be absurd.

 

 

Hes from Finland, does that count?

[TheChris92]

Not sure I agree re HR's streamlining...

When we take into account the expensive golden pixels in modern graphics have to be built from, there just aren't enough hours in the day or memory on a disc to have a game as big as Deus Ex 1, when all the characters looked like origami-figurines made out of sand paper. There's no weapon specialization; Adam could swipe up an alien plasma gun and instantly be aware of how to use it. And you get enough upgrades to be skilled in pretty much everything -- In that respect, the gameplay becomes not so much "finding the route that works for you" as "taking whichever one's quickest, then going back to loot all the others for ammo and Mars bars." Disregarding all that and the ****ty boss-fights, which were fixed in a Director's Cut sure, but it kinda needs to be there from the start. It's a solid game.

Edited March 11, 2014 by TheChris92

[TheChris92]

 

 

 

Come now Nep, he's from the region. The least you can is agree with him in the interests of Scandinavian brotherhood

Unless he's from Norway then the idea of a Brotherhood would be absurd.

 

 

Hes from Finland, does that count?

 

Nah, they are outsiders to the cool kids club. 

EDIT: Also I gotta correct myself -- If he's from Norway or Finland, then the idea of a Brotherhood would be absurd.

Edited March 11, 2014 by TheChris92

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

Come now Nep, he's from the region. The least you can is agree with him in the interests of Scandinavian brotherhood

Unless he's from Norway then the idea of a Brotherhood would be absurd.

 

 

Hes from Finland, does that count?

 

Nah, they are outsiders to the cool kids club. 

EDIT: Also I gotta correct myself -- If he's from Norway or Finland, then the idea of a Brotherhood would be absurd.

 

 

Shame poor Nep, well I suppose he could form a brotherhood with the Laplanders 

[Tagaziel]

When we take into account the expensive golden pixels in modern graphics have to be built from, there just aren't enough hours in the day or memory on a disc to have a game as big as Deus Ex 1, when all the characters looked like origami-figurines made out of sand paper. There's no weapon specialization; Adam could swipe up an alien plasma gun and instantly be aware of how to use it. And you get enough upgrades to be skilled in pretty much everything -- In that respect, the gameplay becomes not so much "finding the route that works for you" as "taking whichever one's quickest, then going back to loot all the others for ammo and Mars bars." Disregarding all that and the ****ty boss-fights, which were fixed in a Director's Cut sure, but it kinda needs to be there from the start. It's a solid game.

I'd argue that weapon specialization in Deus Ex was poorly done: You play as a UNATCO killing machine worth 50 billion dollars who can't even shoot straight. The wobble was atrocious. I'd also argue that Deus Ex suffered from the same issue. The game effectively penalized you for not knocking out and looting everything you could (not to mention you could easily get enough skill points and upgrades to get all the relevant skills and augs maxed out).

 

DX:HR has one thing going for it that DX1 doesn't: Social boss fights. <3

[Nepenthe]

 

Nah, keeping my eyes on Deus Ex Human Revolution. I had high expectations for these guys, even if it was an obvious B-team.

Thi4f wasn't made by the team that made DX:HR. Same studio, different teams.

 

 

Which is what I said.

[Nepenthe]

 

Not sure I agree re HR's streamlining...

When we take into account the expensive golden pixels in modern graphics have to be built from, there just aren't enough hours in the day or memory on a disc to have a game as big as Deus Ex 1, when all the characters looked like origami-figurines made out of sand paper. There's no weapon specialization; Adam could swipe up an alien plasma gun and instantly be aware of how to use it. And you get enough upgrades to be skilled in pretty much everything -- In that respect, the gameplay becomes not so much "finding the route that works for you" as "taking whichever one's quickest, then going back to loot all the others for ammo and Mars bars." Disregarding all that and the ****ty boss-fights, which were fixed in a Director's Cut sure, but it kinda needs to be there from the start. It's a solid game.

 

 

Well, obviously DXHR isn't as big as DX (which IM heretical O isn't necessarily a bad thing), I'm refusing to accept that as "streamlining". The "can instantly use guns" argument has been going on since, well, at least the original Deus Ex, where people found it ludicrous that a highly trained agent wouldn't be proficient with common or easily usable weapons. Certainly this would be even more poignant in the case of Adam, an ex-SWAT officer. Not sure how the upgrade thing is any different from DX - certainly the original Boss fights weren't.

 

tldr: Let's not repaint issues that have existed in games for decades as a sign of console-influenced decay.