Knowing there's a trap vs. rolling there's a trap

[HardRains]

Will traps be observable by human players or will the party need a member with a "trap radar" skill, slowly moving forward to detect that seemingly innocuous exploding mug of ale?

[Prometheus]

Will traps be observable by human players or will the party need a member with a "trap radar" skill, slowly moving forward to detect that seemingly innocuous exploding mug of ale?

Traps are not observable by human players. You will detect them without any mode on, but you can detect them in a greater range if you are in search mode. It seems that you don't need a skill to find hidden objects, but attributes will influence in what range you can find hidden objects. And I don't think that there are any random rolls involved in finding hidden objects.

 

source:

 

Things that are intentionally hidden (doors, containers, traps, etc.) will be marked as undetected by default. Noticing them will require getting within a certain proximity (based on character attributes) for a second or two. If you rush by everything, you can easily miss the hidden objects or blunder into a trap. We absolutely don't want to emulate the "click button and wait" mechanic of the IE games but we do want to encourage players to be thorough in how they move through/explore spaces. Once an object has been detected, the highlighting key will highlight it just like any other object.

 

 

Correct.  Once you've detected a hidden object, the highlighting shortcut will reveal it like other objects.

 

On a related note, finding hidden objects can happen due to sheer proximity (very close), but will trigger at much greater range if you enter scouting mode, which is our combined stealth/search state.

 

BTW, another reason why we would like to retain a highlighting key in PE is because with an isometric perspective and occluded geometry, it's very easy for bodies/items to fall "behind" something relative to the camera.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Prometheus

[Cubiq]

What about removeing traps?

Will only rogues be able to remove them?

In IE it was hard if the whole pathway had a trap and you couldint get past without triggering it even if you knew it was there.

[neo6874]

What about removeing traps?

Will only rogues be able to remove them?

In IE it was hard if the whole pathway had a trap and you couldint get past without triggering it even if you knew it was there.

 

Wait, you didn't have a rogue/thief in the party?  Isn't "have a rogue" one of the "rules" of an adventuring party?

[Cubiq]

I actually always do, but that's really the only reason he's there. I can't even be bothered to send him to attack anyone because of the low hit chance they have.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Cubiq

[neo6874]

Bow or crossbow (as well as maxing out the proficiency) helps a lot there.  Though I do agree, they're a bit anemic with THACO (and just bad in IE games because getting them in a position where they can actually backstab is damn near impossible)

[Prometheus]

What about removeing traps?

Will only rogues be able to remove them?

In IE it was hard if the whole pathway had a trap and you couldint get past without triggering it even if you knew it was there.

You need the mechanics skill to disarm a trap (or open a lock).  The rogue will get a bonus in the mechanics skill, but every class can take the skill. I'm not sure if there is another class with a bonus to mechanics.

[Tamerlane]

I would certainly hopeassume that rangers would get a bonus as well.

[Cubiq]

You need the mechanics skill to disarm a trap (or open a lock).  The rogue will get a bonus in the mechanics skill, but every class can take the skill. I'm not sure if there is another class with a bonus to mechanics.

So it's going to be like in the 3rd edition rule set in Nwn and Iwd2?

Can't say i'm a fan of that mechanic.

The dificuly level of traps/locks you encountered during playthrough were on a skill level intended for rogues. You usually had trouble with locks or traps if some other class tried to put points in to it that they weren't proficient with.

[Tamerlane]

That's something Josh Sawyer has specifically talked about trying to avoid.

 

EDIT: To clarify, they're trying to get away from binary pass/fail on skill checks. So it's not "Oh, you're five under on your mechanics skill? **** you, you don't disable the trap. Come back when you level up, bruv." It's "Five under on your mechanics skill? Yeah, sure, you disable, the trap, but you'll break some tools in doing so." This lets specialists still feel special without completely stymying non-specialists.

 

They also want to make sure that while a class can always be "the best at what it does" (like rogues with stealth or fighters with deflection or whatever), the gap does not naturally increase with time. So if a rogue starts with +15 stealth and a fighter starts with +0 stealth and they're both focusing as hard as they can on stealth, then at level ten, the gap between them will be the same as it was at level 1, rather than the ballooning differences you often saw with skills and saves in 3.X.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Tamerlane

[Prometheus]

I would certainly hopeassume that rangers would get a bonus as well.

No, the ranger won't get a bonus to mechanics. He gets a bonus to Stealth and Josh Sawyer said that the rogue is the only class that gets a bonus to both mechanics and stealth. That's why I said I'm not sure if anyone else gets a bonus to mechanics.

 

sources:

Rogues gain a starting bonus to Mechanics and Stealth (and are the only class to get a bonus to both of those skills) ...

 

On a side note, stealth as a general mechanic is in no way exclusive to rogues.  Rangers, rogues, monks, and chanters all start with the same class bonus to the stealth skill and other classes can trail very closely from level-to-level.

[Tamerlane]

Aw, that's lame. I guess they wanted to give rogues a bigger niche, even if traps seems like an inherently ranger-y thing to deal with.

[J.E. Sawyer]

Rogues don't have a bigger skill "niche".  Every class gets a bonus in two skills, rangers included.

[J.E. Sawyer]

So it's going to be like in the 3rd edition rule set in Nwn and Iwd2?

Can't say i'm a fan of that mechanic.

The dificuly level of traps/locks you encountered during playthrough were on a skill level intended for rogues. You usually had trouble with locks or traps if some other class tried to put points in to it that they weren't proficient with.

 

No.  We're absolutely not emulating the 3E/3.5 skill progression because the difference between class and cross-class skills in those systems is (more or less) proportional.  As the levels rise in D&D, it's not uncommon for a maxed out class skill to exceed the cross-class total of a teammate by almost a full die (i.e. 20 or more).

[forgottenlor]

If each class gets two skill bonuses, would it safe to assume another class also gets a bonus in mechanics?

[Tamerlane]

I don't think it would be safe to assume that, no.

[Osvir]

Coincedence with 666 topics?

[Osvir]

But to stay on topic.

Are there other methods to get by a trap?

"It's a trap!"

- "Do a barrelroll!!"

Jokes aside.

Items? Abilities? Wild Rush away from a boulder you just sprung? Place a plank on a pitfall with spikes. Etc. etc. Do a dodge roll with a Rogue (if possible) over some tripwire? (use the trap to your advantage?) blanket on some magical rune to be able to pass it? Take a sacrifice? A companion maybe has to stop an incoming boulder or dart trap.

Will some traps be instadeath? (Getting squished~) or will it be possible to "defuse" any situation? Could Trap-Encounters" be RTwP too, and the mechanics of traps flinging about the screen. A statue falling on top of the party, pause, move away.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Osvir

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I'm hoping that there will be tell-tale signs that a trap is in vicinity. The only IE game I remember doing it was Baldur's Gate I--particularly in Durlag's Tower. A scortch-mark on the floor, or a skeletal corpse collapsed in an otherwise ordinary cooridoor, etc. While I understand this would only be pertinent in some long abandoned dungeon, I felt they were excellent contextual clues for an observant player.

[Lephys]

I'm hoping that there will be tell-tale signs that a trap is in vicinity. The only IE game I remember doing it was Baldur's Gate I--particularly in Durlag's Tower. A scortch-mark on the floor, or a skeletal corpse collapsed in an otherwise ordinary cooridoor, etc. While I understand this would only be pertinent in some long abandoned dungeon, I felt they were excellent contextual clues for an observant player.

 

I do think the slightest hint of "You should probably be aware of the possibility of traps in this general area" would be most welcome, in at least the majority of situations, even if that's simply general knowledge of the area. Such as "Lots of poachers hunt out in these woods" leading to you probably deducing that there MIGHT be hunter's traps about. No need to have indicators for "there's probably a bunch of floor spikes right here in the floor, because *bloody skeleton*" every time you come anywhere near a trap (that would defeat the purpose of their being undetectable without being found), but I don't it to be "well, you'd better sneak through every single square inch of the entire game, just to make sure there aren't any traps."

 

Of course, I don't expect silly trap placement. "Alright, guys, I'm gonna head upstairs to our room here in the tavern to get some shut-"

 

*one of the stairs sinks abruptly, making a slight click. You notice a spiked metal ball making bone-crunching contact with the side of your head.*

 

[neo6874]

 

I'm hoping that there will be tell-tale signs that a trap is in vicinity. The only IE game I remember doing it was Baldur's Gate I--particularly in Durlag's Tower. A scortch-mark on the floor, or a skeletal corpse collapsed in an otherwise ordinary cooridoor, etc. While I understand this would only be pertinent in some long abandoned dungeon, I felt they were excellent contextual clues for an observant player.

 

I do think the slightest hint of "You should probably be aware of the possibility of traps in this general area" would be most welcome, in at least the majority of situations, even if that's simply general knowledge of the area. Such as "Lots of poachers hunt out in these woods" leading to you probably deducing that there MIGHT be hunter's traps about. No need to have indicators for "there's probably a bunch of floor spikes right here in the floor, because *bloody skeleton*" every time you come anywhere near a trap (that would defeat the purpose of their being undetectable without being found), but I don't it to be "well, you'd better sneak through every single square inch of the entire game, just to make sure there aren't any traps."

 

Of course, I don't expect silly trap placement. "Alright, guys, I'm gonna head upstairs to our room here in the tavern to get some shut-"

 

*one of the stairs sinks abruptly, making a slight click. You notice a spiked metal ball making bone-crunching contact with the side of your head.*

 

 

 

 

really changes the meaning of "Watch that first step, it's a doozie", no? 

[Lephys]

"No, really... the street name for these head-crusher traps is 'Doozies.' o_o"

 

[Hassat Hunter]

If trap-placement isn't requiring an active hunt, but is rather a permanent stance, why not? Why not add those unexpected traps?

They generally will be found... and will just pummel the rushers in a funny way

[jamoecw]

 

What about removeing traps?

Will only rogues be able to remove them?

In IE it was hard if the whole pathway had a trap and you couldint get past without triggering it even if you knew it was there.

 

Wait, you didn't have a rogue/thief in the party?  Isn't "have a rogue" one of the "rules" of an adventuring party?

 

in PnP DnD it is, in IE games it is more of a tendency.  you can get away from having rogues in your party, especially in BG2.  you can unlock stuff via spell, find traps via spell, and 'disarm' traps by running summons through them.

[forgottenlor]

In Neverwinter Nights 2 you could also go without a rogue. I did two playthroughs without. The first I simply bashed all chests, and my main character had a good enough search to notice traps. In the 2nd I beefed up Grobnar (the bard) with skills, items, and feats so that he was able to get through almost all traps and locks. So you could get around traps without a rogue if you were creative, or willing to lose resources. I'm guessing P:E will be like this. Having a mechanics bonus will be convenient. Having none will be doable, though will require some planning or extra resources.