Josh Sawyer GDC Next 10 Talk

[J.E. Sawyer]

Btw, won't that kind of tall grass look really bad, since characters have to move on top of it rather than through it, or is there some magic involved again?

 

It is 2D grass, so it doesn't react to movement or spells being cast, but it does sort properly with characters in it.  I.e., characters who are standing in tall grass look like they are standing in the grass, not on it.

[Sabotin]

That sounds good. Also possibly bad

[Merlkir]

Oh, pity. I thought since grass animates, it might be possible to do physicsy things to it. Ah well

[Mor]

Looking at the screenshots posted here. I love the varied environments, the map style, and most importantly the quest log/journal/cyclopedia! Praise the gods it is readable intuitive something that I might enjoy to use through the game and not regard it as a punishment as it was in some other titles. 

[Mor]

I recent had a reintroduction with how annoying some of the old UI are, so I was very happy about this initial quest log mockup.

 

That I spent couple of minutes to see where it can go, its nothing but some shiny bs, since we don't enough about this at this point.

 

 

 

But I really hope that the devs will go all the way in terms of streamlining with the quest log, inventory and character sheets.

[WorstUsernameEver]

What's the point of having a quest be marked as active if the game doesn't have quest markers or any of the associated UI helpers anyway?

 

EDIT: I'm assuming the star means the quest is active because, uh, I don't know what it would be otherwise.

Edited November 24, 2013 by WorstUsernameEver

[aluminiumtrioxid]

EDIT: I'm assuming the star means the quest is active because, uh, I don't know what it would be otherwise.

 

Means of differentiating between the main quest and side missions? Faction markers?

Edited November 24, 2013 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Mor]

What's the point of having a quest be marked as active if the game doesn't have quest markers or any of the associated UI helpers anyway?

So when you open the Quest log it will focus on the quest you currently pursuing, instead the first quest in alphabetical order? It might seem like a small thing, but I hope to make more use of the Quest Log and Journal(e.g. looking for clues within) and IMO such small things makes for better experience.

 

We are familiar with growing quest logs, especially after several playthroughs with power of hindsight at our back, account to different play styles and or mods. We can all appreciate a quest log you can easily navigate. For example hiding entries for quest which you have no plan to ever finish(or broken) and just clutter your list.

 

Anyway, like I said at this point we know very little about quest, mechanics, etc so those elements I added were mostly to better distinguish the various entries. For more substantial suggestions, we will have to wait until we are further down the road

Edited November 24, 2013 by Mor

[CaptainMace]

This "Cyclopedia" button makes me a sad panda.

[Labadal]

This "Cyclopedia" button makes me a sad panda.

Should call it Cyclopcspedia. 

[Boox]

This "Cyclopedia" button makes me a sad panda.

According to the dictionary on my computer, cyclopedia is the archaic (unless used in a book title) shortening of the word encyclopedia. The term does remind me of bicycles more than ancient musty tomes, though...

 

Ah, on second thought, maybe you weren't referring to the use of the word itself?

[Tamerlane]

Every game should have a UFOpaedia.

[CaptainMace]

I'm referring to the probable existence in the game of any kind of "bioware games codex-like" menu where the player can read everything about anything. Though, if it's not too overload in information, i might actually like it. But I'll always prefer to see the lore though the game than through some encyclopedia entries.

[Tamerlane]

[CaptainMace]

Good example of something that is not overload in information, Tamerlane.

[Mor]

do you have a specific example of what you consider overload in information?

[Tamerlane]

Presumably the codexes of Dragon Age or Mass Effect.

[Lephys]

*shrug*... Honestly, it made pretty decent sense in Mass Effect. I mean, you had very good communicative technology, so, if you so chose, there should've been easily-accessible information compendiums at your fingertips. But, in Dragon Age, you kept finding things and somehow instantly gathering history and lore about them. The fact that you had to close out of them to opt not to read them was the biggest problem, really. But, that and, in a world using "medieval"-style technology levels, you wouldn't just have a bunch of extra information floating around in a book that you carry around all the time. If you've learned something about an enemy, then I can assume you've added an entry with that information into your compendium. But, I honestly think there should at least be some method by which you acquire the information, and most of the just history/lore information should be in books and/or libraries and such (or told to you by people who are obviously scholars/historians/priests, etc., if you choose to get info from them.)

 

I don't like it when the information is "gamily" paced and forcibly just pops out at you every corner you turn. And you shouldn't just acquire the entire history of all goblins, ever, just because you bump into a goblin, for example, or get an entire encyclopedia entry on Lord SecretlyTheBadGuy just because you encounter him. You just stop, and look in your magical codex, and boom, "He secretly stalks the gardens at night, doing shady things, and here's his family lineage, and here's all the stuff he's done since acquiring his title." No, I want to find that stuff out when it's relevant, and/or I'm searching for it. I want to have no CLUE who lore SecretlyTheBadGuy is, until I start trying to find information on him for some reason, and come to realize "Hmm... that's awfully shady how his family wasn't prominent before he rose to power...", etc. Not just get a codex entry in which I read "Strangely, almost no one knows about the history of the SecretlyTheBadGuy family lineage..."

 

So:

 

1) No arbitrary presentation of knowledge.

2) No omniscience factor.

 

Then I'll be happy.

[Mor]

Presumably the codexes of Dragon Age or Mass Effect.

Yes, but which aspect of it is "overload in information".

 

 

Too much text? too broad in its coverage? or what?

 

Because IMO, DA:O has one of the best codex systems.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Mor

[Tamerlane]

I can't answer for the other person, but I hated DAO's codex.

 

You want quest details in your quest log? Nah bro, they're in the codex. Want to find a specific entry? Get to clicking, ****, 'cause this **** ain't labelled.

[Karkarov]

I can't answer for the other person, but I hated DAO's codex.

 

You want quest details in your quest log? Nah bro, they're in the codex. Want to find a specific entry? Get to clicking, ****, 'cause this **** ain't labelled.

I agree DA:O's codex was unorganized as hell, but it was still a nice codex.  I feel Mass Effect 1 is probably one of if not the best ever made for a game but I am not expecting something that detailed and minute for Eternity.

[CaptainMace]

 

Presumably the codexes of Dragon Age or Mass Effect.

Yes, but which aspect of it is "overload in information".

 

Well basically any codex entry that tend to overexplain a phenomenon. For example, you can learn a lot on the Fade in the DAO codex. Because it's from the DAO codex, it's immediatly considered canonical to its universe. So, from then, you either can't add anything new in a second episode, or if you do then i'll legitimately ask why it wasn't in the codex in the first place. Right now, I don't have any dream or fantasy about the Fade in DAO, for i just have to read an entry in the codex to know everything about it.

Although, these long entries are another way to say "hey, we worked really really hard to explain everything on our universe but failed miserably in putting all of that in the game so, here, have a random encyclopedia that explain stuff that is not in the game anyway".

 

In a word, i don't mind simple infos like a bestiary or the specs of a city "xxx is a merchant city, ruled by an oligarchy"... but reading a true encyclopedia about its history and such, what a terrible way to make a universe believable. But I can understand that people would rather have extra infos on stuff, I just don't.

 

EDIT : BTW, I totally agree with whoever said the codex was a good idea in Mass Effect. It was indeed, because it gives legitimate info that Shepard should know as an Alliance vet but shouldn't ask randomly to npcs AND it's for a SCI-FI universe, so I really don't mind fictional scientific explanation on stuff (it's kind of the goal amirite?).

Edited November 26, 2013 by CaptainMace

[Karkarov]

Although, these long entries are another way to say "hey, we worked really really hard to explain everything on our universe but failed miserably in putting all of that in the game so, here, have a random encyclopedia that explain stuff that is not in the game anyway".

Which is easily resolved by simply only putting information in the codex the player would actually know, and unlocking additional data if/when they encounter some in game information source that gives more knowledge.  Such as a book, exploring a ruin, or encountering the info first hand by talking to say the person the Codex entry is about.

[Osvir]

Because you're talking about codex.

"Codex == PokeDex"

In Mass Effect it makes sense due to technology "You have a new update!". In Dragon Age: Origins it doesn't quite make sense now that I think about it. "You defeated a Hurlock! Suddenly you know everything about it!". I hope Eternity has nothing of it.

 

In fact, as I am on the subject. Two things:

A) Abd al-Hazir and Deckard Cain from Diablo III. Blizzard used an interesting mechanic, but it's still the same as Pokemon Dragon Age: Origins "You killed a scavenger! Here's some magical information out of nowhere!". Nonetheless, it'd be interesting to meet and greet a character in-game who has this information. Maybe a librarian you can recruit to your Stronghold. Someone who "unlocks" a section in your Codex which then allows you to "Catch em all" (so to speak) and get instant feedback or access previous entries of places you've been and enemies you've defeated and weaknesses and strengths.

Imagined plot-ish:
- Defeat an enemy
- No entry
- Meet librarian~scholar or w/e
- Unlock Beastiary
- Read about the enemy you defeated
- Defeat an enemy
- Gain an entry

B) Free-Form Journal Option. Something I've endorsed and will continue to do. Don't get any entries. Write em yourself! I believe it adds realism as well as adds some "Traveling/Survival"-Simulation Elements. Same thing with quests. Books wouldn't be "blank", but could instead serve as instruments to learn more about an area before venturing into it, and then scribbling down notes in your own journal. Play as the scholar Abd al-Hazir, don't use a PokeDex an automatic Codex/Journal.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Osvir

[Mor]

I can't answer for the other person, but I hated DAO's codex.

 

You want quest details in your quest log? Nah bro, they're in the codex. Want to find a specific entry? Get to clicking, ****, 'cause this **** ain't labelled.

Lets try break it down into something we can use, like what mechanics works for us and what doesn't.

 

On topic of information overload, I much prefer that my codex will be handled as collection of lore gathered during my adventure as opposed to starting the game with a complete world guide.

 

I don't know what led Bioware to use numbers instead of entries name, it made looking up information(for which the codex was made) harder. But you can find better examples in this regard, for example witcher:

 

 

 

 

EDIT:

Although, these long entries are another way to say "hey, we worked really really hard to explain everything on our universe but failed miserably in putting all of that in the game so, here, have a random encyclopedia that explain stuff that is not in the game anyway".

Do you remember the library in Irenicus dungeon? shelves full of books with background info? What a waste! does anyone expected us to hold on our prison break, so we can pause the game for a couple of hours and read history books? or drag that stack of books around in our limited inventory, since there is no way to revisit it. Why simply not to add it as codex info, so we can revisit at our own time during our adventure?

 

codex was a good idea in Mass Effect. It was indeed, because it gives legitimate info that Shepard should know as an Alliance vet but shouldn't ask randomly to npcs

Same can be said about all those books in Irenicus dungeon, they contained a lot of info from our adventures at the sword coast.

 

 

EDIT2:

@Osvir, in witcher you unlock codex entries by reading books, conversation or observation. If they can make the codex more naturally intertwined with the setting then great, if not i'd go with codex over no codex any day.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Mor