The general fitness thread

[Woldan]

You look good, imagine how big you would be if you did take supplements

Like 213374U said probably not much bigger, my diet is pretty good and I think I've got that natural protein intake covered, but there is certainly room for improvement. (Isn't there always?)

 

Oh, and one more thing about protein supplements, its pretty impossible to get too much protein through your diet but its very possible with supplements. According to a doc I talked to too much protein over a long period of time (years) can trash your kidneys. I don't know if thats true but too much anything is bad and will lead to problems I guess.

 

So if you take such supplement be careful and don't shovel that stuff into your mouth...

Edited February 21, 2014 by Woldan

[Woldan]

Currently introducing a friend to weight lifting / strength exercises, he is no longer happy with his extremely lean physique and wants to build some muscle with my help (creating a exercise schedule, telling him all the basics and taking care of proper form during the lifts) 

 

Sounds pretty straight forward, but there there is kind of an odd problem, he eats more / bigger meals than I and he weighs around 68 kilograms at 184cm, and no, he does not do any sports or other exhausting activities. He eats a lot. What he does with the calories - I don't know. He told me he calculated his calorie intake and he eats 1500 kilo joules more than his body actually requires according to the calculators he used, and there is not a single gram of fat on him.

According to the docs he does not suffer from any illnesses and his diet is decent. I don't really believe in ''hardgainers'' but this case might make me reconsider. 

 

We also did a short mountain climbing trip about a year ago and we forgot to bring food, after a day of climbing I got a little bit hungry but he was close to collapsing, I thought he wouldn't make it back to the car. 

 

If the exercise doesn't drastically change his metabolism very quickly he will never be able to gain any weight let alone build muscles and the exercises will really trash him for days. Any advice to improve his metabolism? I can teach him everything there is to know about the exercises but I've never had troubles with my metabolism so... I don't know. .*shrugs*. 

Edited February 22, 2014 by Woldan

[Hurlshort]

 

 

You look good, imagine how big you would be if you did take supplements

 

 

I'd dislike this post if I could.  Bad Bruce!

[213374U]

Currently introducing a friend to weight lifting / strength exercises, he is no longer happy with his extremely lean physique and wants to build some muscle with my help (creating a exercise schedule, telling him all the basics and taking care of proper form during the lifts) 

 

Sounds pretty straight forward, but there there is kind of an odd problem, he eats more / bigger meals than I and he weighs around 68 kilograms at 184cm, and no, he does not do any sports or other exhausting activities. He eats a lot. What he does with the calories - I don't know. He told me he calculated his calorie intake and he eats 1500 kilo joules more than his body actually requires according to the calculators he used, and there is not a single gram of fat on him.

According to the docs he does not suffer from any illnesses and his diet is decent. I don't really believe in ''hardgainers'' but this case might make me reconsider. 

 

We also did a short mountain climbing trip about a year ago and we forgot to bring food, after a day of climbing I got a little bit hungry but he was close to collapsing, I thought he wouldn't make it back to the car. 

 

If the exercise doesn't drastically change his metabolism very quickly he will never be able to gain any weight let alone build muscles and the exercises will really trash him for days. Any advice to improve his metabolism? I can teach him everything there is to know about the exercises but I've never had troubles with my metabolism so... I don't know. .*shrugs*. 

 

Nope, I don't believe in hardgainers either, only undereaters. 68 Kg for 1.84m is really skinny.

 

Keep in mind that 1500 kJ is just ~360 kcal, it's really not that much—when I studied this I was told that a good approach was to program an excess of 500 kcal/day and adjust from there based on results. Also, and short of calorimetry, there is no way to directly measure energy expenditure so it's always a bit of a guessing game. Basal energy expenditure can be somewhat reliably estimated by a body composition measurement, but expenditure from activity is far harder to establish, so it's possible the requirements have been underestimated, the intake overestimated, or both.

 

Another possibility is that your friend has some sort of intolerance that is damaging his ability to absorb nutrients. Lactose and gluten are the usual suspects here, and the problem is that these can be asymptomatic... and yet still totally wreck you internally. If your friend is really eating obscene amounts of food and is still constantly hungry/not gaining weight, a visit to the specialist may be in order.

 

Again, this is your friend and you obviously know him better, but when people can't seem to put on weight no matter what when training hard, odds are they just aren't eating enough. If all else fails, put him on the GOMAD diet, see what happens (not recommended if lactose intolerant, obviously).

 

Good luck!

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

You look good, imagine how big you would be if you did take supplements

 

 

I'd dislike this post if I could.  Bad Bruce!

 

 

I wasn't suggesting he take supplements. That's why I said " he looks good " . I see how my post could be misunderstood as its like I'm suggesting he should get bigger, my bad

 

In fact if he took anything to try to get bigger he would look probably unnatural. But to be honest, I can't comment on other countries, in South Africa almost all body builders take steroids, and I don't mean protein shakes. I mean illegal steroids. Its very common and one of the reason I don't want to do weights but stick to cardio as I have bad experience with how people achieve there build

 

 

All my good friends use to take steroids when they use to do body building say about  6-8  years ago , they use to look really good and could happily take there shirts off and people would stare. I would always admire how they looked and told them so  but the narcissism associated with this type of training use to concern me. It was never enough for them and they always thought they could look better. They would also judge other people who did look good but according to them were "small"

 

The good news is they have all stopped and now they do normal weights  and cardio if they still go to gym.

[213374U]

Oh, so that's what you really meant, I feel silly now, heh.

 

I guess steroids can be safe and even beneficial if you know what you are doing and are already at the "top" of what is achievable naturally for you. Most guys on juice fail to meet either criteria however, and then you get cases such as this:

 

 

It's also, as you say, very much a question of narcissism (insecurity?)—except at the pro BB'ing level, then it's all about money—so I understand your misgivings about getting involved with that. A pity.

[Woldan]

@ 213374U

Thanks for your advice!

I'm not sure if he calculated his calorie intake correctly, all I know is he eats a lot whenever we meet, he totally beats me in every single meal in terms of eating speed and amount of food consumed. And he eats constantly, even after having had a big meal.

GOMAD sounds like an interesting and exceptionally easy 'diet', I'll tell him that he needs to get tested for lactose intolerance before we start off with the exercise and diet. 

 

About the ''supplement'' thing: I'd never take roids, drugs don't even tempt me. First and foremost I exercise to stay healthy and to keep my natural testosterone high, I also like to have as much ''functional''natural strength as possible. Thats what exercise really is meant for. I think I would not enjoy gains I got with unhealthy cheating.

What also helps is that I'm not competing with other people, I don't feel any pressure if someone I know is stronger than me and can lift more or looks better.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Woldan

[BruceVC]

I have another question, do you guys think in the interest of the most effective way of burning Calories that it's  better to train first thing in the morning, before you eat, or in the early evening before supper ? Or does it make no difference. I have heard conflicting views on this one  

[Woldan]

I'm no professional but I think without having any nutrients from previous meals in your blood the body would burn the entire sugar depot in the liver along with body fat. 

 

What I'm sure of is that any exercise without having eaten anything is hell.

Once I went mountain cycling for 4 hours (summer, 100F / 38 Celsius) without any food in my system and I can't tell you how trashed I felt. I had stomach cramps, followed by extreme nausea (close to puking), fatigue attacks, headache, cold sweat, dizziness, I couldn't feel my legs.... It took my body more than one hour to adjust  to the cycling, then I felt better.  

Why anyone would do this on purpose is beyond me....unless its very light cardio like walking.  

 

Oh, so that's what you really meant, I feel silly now, heh.

 

I guess steroids can be safe and even beneficial if you know what you are doing and are already at the "top" of what is achievable naturally for you. Most guys on juice fail to meet either criteria however, and then you get cases such as this:

 

Another shocking thing is how fast that guy lost all his muscle mass and turned into a flabby average-joe. Within 6 weeks!   Must have been the high level of estrogen paired with the sudden lack of steroids.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Woldan

[Woldan]

Exercise should never be boring - so I decided to do chin ups, commando pull ups and rope pull ups - but with a spin. I did them with my survival backpack and rifle (+15kg) slung over my back, now thats a functional strength exercise. That way it felt so much cooler and it was hard.   

[Mor]

I have another question, do you guys think in the interest of the most effective way of burning Calories that it's  better to train first thing in the morning, before you eat, or in the early evening before supper ? Or does it make no difference. I have heard conflicting views on this one

There are so many minor tips on how to better burn calories ( e.g. drinking coffee before a run ) Honestly, it is all BS in the grand scheme of things, the only thing that really works is to keep at it. So as long as you work it and you see results, whatever works for you is fine

[Woldan]

Bruce, by the way, did you know that a body with a high amount of muscle mass burns tons of calories even when resting? Combine cardio with strength training and you'll burn calories much faster. Time to do some bench pressing and biceps curls!     

Edited March 2, 2014 by Woldan

[Serrano]

Oh, so that's what you really meant, I feel silly now, heh.

 

I guess steroids can be safe and even beneficial if you know what you are doing and are already at the "top" of what is achievable naturally for you. Most guys on juice fail to meet either criteria however, and then you get cases such as this:

 

 

It's also, as you say, very much a question of narcissism (insecurity?)—except at the pro BB'ing level, then it's all about money—so I understand your misgivings about getting involved with that. A pity.

 

Are you sure that's someone on steroids and not a terminator? I mean, I'm no doctor but;  

[Mor]

Bruce, by the way, did you know that a body with a high amount of muscle mass burns tons of calories even when resting? Combine cardio with strength training and you'll burn calories much faster. Time to do some bench pressing and biceps curls!  

indeed muscle tissue burns more calories, which is one of the reason why your metabolism improves when you start exercise. Edited March 2, 2014 by Mor

[Nonek]

Getting a bit stout since I stopped playing Rugby. Upped my dogs walks to ten miles, once in the morning and once at night, tabbing and jogging as the mood takes me. Work out with the weights three to four times a week, one day on and one day off. Box and wrestle with the lad twice a week for an hour. Any idea on what I should increase? Maybe jump on the old exercise bike or the new fancy treadmills that the ladies use?

[Hurlshort]

Wait, you walk your dog ten miles a day?  Geez, how do you find the time?  What is that, about 2 hours?

[213374U]

Getting a bit stout since I stopped playing Rugby. Upped my dogs walks to ten miles, once in the morning and once at night, tabbing and jogging as the mood takes me. Work out with the weights three to four times a week, one day on and one day off. Box and wrestle with the lad twice a week for an hour. Any idea on what I should increase? Maybe jump on the old exercise bike or the new fancy treadmills that the ladies use?

 

Increase what? Looks like you are plenty active already. You have any particular goals you are working towards or...?

 

edit: oh sorry, I re-read. With your current level of activity, you are probably just going to have to cut back on calories. You could theoretically keep increasing energy demands (HIIT, plyometrics...) but there comes a point where you are just pushing too hard and there's a price for everything. Changing the relation between fats/carbs/protein to favor the latter two to the detriment of the former will probably yield results fairly quickly for someone so active. From what I've read also it seems that the lion's share of the fat burning efect from EPOC is due to the body's adaptive and repair processes, so spicing up things a bit in the weight room may also be to your advantage if you've been doing more or less the same things for a while.

Edited March 2, 2014 by 213374U

[Woldan]

I started doing lots of incline bench pressing and incline flies because I think my upper chest needs some work, the problem is incline stuff hits the front delts. Now I'm hitting my shoulders really hard on chest day AND shoulder-back day. Is there a good shoulder exercise that does not target the front delts? 

 

On shoulder day I'm doing heavy military presses and Arnold dumbbell presses, both exercises that are hard on the front shoulder muscles. What about sitting unsupported overhead presses? That way I'm pressing the weight directly in line with my spine and that should help targeting my middle and back parts of the shoulder. In theory. 

[213374U]

Any gesture that requires your humerus to tilt forward in a sagittal plane (shoulder flexion) against a resistance is going to recruit your "anterior" delts. I'm using quotation marks because muscular isolation is somewhat of a myth—forces are transmitted by connective tissue (tendons, fasciae) and muscle portions are much less well defined IRL than they are in anatomy treatises. Deltoid "portions" can be as few as 3 and as many as 7 depending on the author. Also, there are ~20 muscles involved with that motion. Which one are you working?

 

The way to shift part of the burden to the "lateral" portion is by reducing the mechanical advantage of the anterior portion that is naturally stronger and forcing the body to find a more convenient solution. You can do this by making the movement happen in the frontal plane (dumbbell lateral raise) and/or increasing shoulder internal rotation (upright rows). Problem with messing around with rotation is that it reduces effective ROM and if your rotator cuff and especially scapular stabilizers aren't up to snuff, it's not going to be very effective and "automatic" involuntary compensations can cause problems long-term (shoulder impingement, tendonitis...).

 

Overhead pressing is kinda redundant if you are already doing military and Arnold presses. I would try lateral raises first (I've seen your upper traps, try to minimize assistance from them), and then lying rear raises.

 

Me, I'm running a 5-week peak strength period. Low rep sets, average volume, loads up to 80% of 1RM, long rests, deadlift/squat/bench press-centered with a bit of supplementary work throw in for good measure. And it's only a 3-4 day/week program. It's driving me up the wall...

[Mor]

Lately, I have been really enjoying my jogs, especially after work that + good shower and I feel like a new man.

[Woldan]

Deltoid "portions" can be as few as 3 and as many as 7 depending on the author. Also, there are ~20 muscles involved with that motion. Which one are you working?

I know!  

But I really need some isolation when doing shoulder exercises, my front delts get a beating 2 times in just 5 days, I feel thats not enough time for them to regenerate.

 

Overhead pressing is kinda redundant if you are already doing military and Arnold presses. I would try lateral raises first .

Nono, what I meant is doing overheads instead the more front-delt intensive Arnold & military presses. Unsupported overhead presses tend to align the spine with the weights and there is a perfect 180° angle in the shoulder which theoretically should be easy on the front delts and especially hard on the middle parts of the shoulder muscles. The more the weight is in front of you instead on top of you the harder it is on your front delts. 

 

Are lateral raises worth doing as standalone exercise? I've always used them merely as finishers after an intensive workout to give my shoulders the rest. 

I think first I'll give heavy upright rows with the SZ bar really close to my chest a go, I've always loved those, I think used to do them with 65 or 70kg or so if I remember correctly. Haven't done them in ages.  I also like lying rear raises, looks like a useful exercise, few exercise target the rear delts effectively. 

 

Me, I'm running a 5-week peak strength period. Low rep sets, average volume, loads up to 80% of 1RM, long rests, deadlift/squat/bench press-centered with a bit of supplementary work throw in for good measure. And it's only a 3-4 day/week program. It's driving me up the wall...

I'm unfamiliar with this kind of exercise regime, but it sounds very interesting, how long are you planning to perform this peak strength exercise plan?  And how long are you resting between the sets?

Edited March 4, 2014 by Woldan

[213374U]

Nono, what I meant is doing overheads instead the more front-delt intensive Arnold & military presses. Unsupported overhead presses tend to align the spine with the weights and there is a perfect 180° angle in the shoulder which theoretically should be easy on the front delts and especially hard on the middle parts of the shoulder muscles. The more the weight is in front of you instead on top of you the harder it is on your front delts. 

 

Are lateral raises worth doing as standalone exercise? I've always used them merely as finishers after an intensive workout to give my shoulders the rest. 

I think first I'll give heavy upright rows with the SZ bar really close to my chest a go, I've always loved those, I think used to do them with 65 or 70kg or so if I remember correctly. Haven't done them in ages.  I also like lying rear raises, looks like a useful exercise, few exercise target the rear delts effectively. 

 

Oh, right, sorry. You are right, unsupported overhead presses are a perfectly good substitute for military and Arnold presses. They are an awesome shoulder exercise all around. They are still anterior delt-heavy, however.

 

If you are worried about the effectiveness of lateral raises, take a look at this. Skip the mumbo-jumbo (or not, it's actually good stuff) and go straight to the EMG chart. Sensations can be misleading sometimes. I also would recommend you try dumbbells instead of a bar for the upright rows, because they allow you to adjust your degree of pronation better (shoulder internal rotation affects rotator cuff disposition and compression), but your call.

 

 

 

 

Me, I'm running a 5-week peak strength period. Low rep sets, average volume, loads up to 80% of 1RM, long rests, deadlift/squat/bench press-centered with a bit of supplementary work throw in for good measure. And it's only a 3-4 day/week program. It's driving me up the wall...

I'm unfamiliar with this kind of exercise regime, but it sounds very interesting, how long are you planning to perform this peak strength exercise plan?  And how long are you resting between the sets?

 

It's a rather basic, powerlifting inspired routine. Think Rippetoe's 5x5, but with a bit more flair (pyramid sets, for instance). Rest periods are upwards of 2 minutes, which can make it sorta boring. Owing to the low rep volumes (5 tops) and long rest periods I don't get a pump or walk out especially tired, which makes me wonder often what am I doing with my life, but the results are good. I haven't yet managed to beat the PBs that I set last time I finished a peak strength cycle. Need to find a way to maintain cardio fitness, though.

Edited March 4, 2014 by 213374U

[Woldan]

So I did standing upright rows and lateral raises, these are the exercises I was looking for, very little front delt and lots of middle and back delt involvement.

It's a rather basic, powerlifting inspired routine. Think Rippetoe's 5x5, but with a bit more flair (pyramid sets, for instance). Rest periods are upwards of 2 minutes, which can make it sorta boring. Owing to the low rep volumes (5 tops) and long rest periods I don't get a pump or walk out especially tired, which makes me wonder often what am I doing with my life, but the results are good.

Sounds like fun, I totally have to give that a try someday.
 

 

Need to find a way to maintain cardio fitness, though.

What are doing as cardio exercise? Some intensive cycling should do the trick, have as many steep inclines and mountains in your cycling route as possible. In my experience there is nothing that is better for cardio than mountain cycling. 

Edited March 6, 2014 by Woldan

[Woldan]

I did those yesterday (With a barbell):

 

 

 

Cool exercise, its a total ab and core builder, back too. Not for beginners though, it might bend and trash a weak back, you totally have to keep it straight all the time and that gets really hard after the tenth repetition. 

Edited March 20, 2014 by Woldan

[HoonDing]