Project Eternity boxed version?

[Dunedain]

I was wondering if there will definitely be a boxed version of Project Eternity (manual, maybe a paper or cloth map, etc.), that will be available and can be ordered once the game is released?  Or are the only boxed copies made going to be for those that knew about the game in time to pledge for the kickstarter physical goods tiers?  Thanks for any info.

[Elerond]

In my understanding there is currently no plans for boxed version outside of kickstater rewards, due to Obsidian's slack of resources to do such release as they don't have publisher who would take care of that for them. But it isn't probably absolutely excluded option either.

[lolaldanee]

i'm pretty sure they will negotiate with a distributer somewhere down the line, i'd say the boxed marked is still too strong to be ignored

[SophosTheWise]

But I really guess it depends on their marketing strategy and the situation PE is in when they have to decide on boxed vs. distribution. I think physical goods outside of Kickstarter will not exist, but a boxed version maybe. Also I would be absolutely pissed off if they would just shell out a Collector's Edition. I backed that tier because I really wanted a Collector's Edition and not some mass market "collector's edition"

[Dunedain]

Yeah, I was thinking they might make a limited production run of say 25,000 or so full boxed versions, and maybe even a few thousand Collector's Editions for when the game first comes out.  But once those are gone, that's it.  At least until Project Eternity 2. 

 

I think with an rpg of this excellent quality (obvious already at this stage of production), that number of boxed versions would sell out to rpg fans very quickly.  In fact, if Obsidian can get pre-orders up and running for boxed versions early on, and they are getting tons of orders for them, they can boost up the number of boxed versions that will be produced and make enough to cover all pre-orders, plus several thousand extra for sale after the game is released.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I doubt Obsidian will do boxed copies outside of the Kickstarter. Costs too much money. Easier to distribute the game via GOG/Steam. 

[lolaldanee]

except even many indie developers have released boxed copies if they had success with the download version first

and many other kickstarters are  planing to do it too, and most of those are smaller teams than obsidian

i say obsidian looses money, at least in the long run, if they don't put something into the stores

one reason is this game is going to be HUGE, (file size wise), and there are still a lot of people with very bad internet around, much more than you'd think

Edited October 24, 2013 by lolaldanee

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I disagree. Obsidian would lose money by putting boxed copies in stores. While it would be ideal to see it in stores, the commercial realities is it won't happen. I don't think you realise the costs involved to put these in stores.

 

We're talking about a niche market for physical stores where a shift for PC gaming has gone from physical goods to downloads. You only have to see the Kickstarter page where more than 85% of backers went for a Digitial Tier over a Physical copy of the game. And the range of PC games in stores to see it's shrunk over the years with the increase in sales from digitial downloads with GOG/Steam and other sites that sell game keys. The reality is most PC gamers want digital downloads and a very small niche market of PC gamers want physical goods.

 

Then you have a niche game vying for shelf space with AAA titles. Which one is the average gamer likely to buy when they enter a store? The AAA title that's had huge marketing, or the niche title that's had very little marketing and looks like an old IE game from 15 years ago? And a store owner is going to want to buy games that sell lots. Order a hundred copies of Batman Arkham Origins or Battlefield 4? Yes, please. Not order a game where they might sell one or two, and if it doesn't sell having to discount it.

 

As far as bad internet connections. Users with Steam and GOG seem to buy games despite their internet connections. Boxed copies seem to be for collectors these days of which I am one. I'll always buy the boxed game over the download every single time, but I know the reality and I'm in a very small minority of PC gamers that buy boxed games. As an example, I only have 6 games on Steam, which are for boxed games that have forced me to use Steam.

Edited October 24, 2013 by Hiro Protagonist II

[SophosTheWise]

 

As far as bad internet connections. Users with Steam and GOG seem to buy games despite their internet connections. Boxed copies seem to be for collectors these days of which I am one.

 

Also, I'd bet my underpants that they'll do some sort of preloadingn steam. I ****ing hope my collector's box arrives on time. Or I will go and kill everyone involved with packaging and sending it.

[Dunedain]

I'm not talking about producing 100's of thousands of boxed versions for sale across the country in various stores, I'm talking about being able to order the boxed version and it gets mailed to you (the customer pays the shipping costs) once the game is released.  There's no big overhead in that, you simply charge whatever it takes to cover the costs and make a reasonable profit on each boxed version sold (say $60-$70, plus shipping).  And you only produce them in limited quantities, once those sell out, they are all gone.  And in smaller quantities, they will certainly sell out.

 

You could even limit it to pre-orders only, boxed copies will only be made for those that get their pre-orders in within a certain cut-off date.  After that point, it's download only on pre-orders.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I'm talking about being able to order the boxed version and it gets mailed to you (the customer pays the shipping costs) once the game is released.  There's no big overhead in that, you simply charge whatever it takes to cover the costs and make a reasonable profit on each boxed version sold (say $60-$70, plus shipping).  And you only produce them in limited quantities, once those sell out, they are all gone.  And in smaller quantities, they will certainly sell out.

 

There's also costs of finding a warehouse and storing the boxed games. Then paying someone to fill out orders. A new employee or existing employee? If it's an existing employee, then that takes the employee away from what they're supposed to do. Which employee has to do this? A programmer? Well I was programming for this game but instead I'm posting this game to someone in New Zealand. :/  And there's going to be different postage costs for different destinations. A programmer has to find out what the postage costs are going to be? Ring courier companies for quotes? The employee organising a courier (FedEx/DHL/UPS) to pick up the game from the warehouse. Organising someone at the warehouse to put the game in a FedEx or UPS box and say that a courier will be in to pick up the game? Paying someone at the warehouse to do all this. Even using Obsidian's premises, they probably wouldn't have the office space to have a couple of hundred games put aside. It's be a waste of office space, time and resources to stack these games in a store room.

 

After the game is picked up, having to update details on the fullfilment site with tracking number. It's a lot of time, money and effort when it's easier for the customer to download it from GOG/Steam. And it's not even the programmers job to do this. Give it to the receptionist? Receptionist has to find out postage costs and organising everything above? Too hard. As I said, I don't think you realise the work involved to have spare boxed copies put aside.

 

I doubt Obsidian would be making much money from the physical goods. The majority of the profit will be coming from downloads and this will have to fund the expansion as well when it's released for those backers who backed at those tiers.

 

You could even limit it to pre-orders only, boxed copies will only be made for those that get their pre-orders in within a certain cut-off date. After that point, it's download only on pre-orders.

 

In a round about sort of way, that's what the Kickstarter was for. To order the boxed copy.

Edited October 24, 2013 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Dunedain]

Well, I suppose they could contract with some local small company to handle the physical shipping of the boxed versions, all of them would sell out pretty quickly, so there wouldn't be any need for a long-term contract.  But whatever the costs are that would be factored into the price, $70 plus shipping should allow for profit on each sale.  So there wouldn't be any loss from it.

[Amberion]

They already have boxed versions going out to Kickstarter backers. That would seem to be the thing to have gotten while it was still gettable(is that a word?). It might be too late now, unless you find a box on ebay when the game is released. We'll probably have to wait for the fulfilment site to see if further orders for boxed copies can even be done.

[Dunedain]

Well, there's no point in turning down extra sales.  Boxed versions would be in demand with rpg fans, they always are popular with rpg games of this quality.  And since money would be made on each sale, why not?  That helps fund the next game that will be made even better.  Plus they would make great gifts for friends who are into rpg's. 

[Lephys]

Generating the materials for a boxed game are similar to printing a book. They probably haven't made the boxed copies and manuals and such yet, so it's likely they'll be accepting more pre-orders for as-yet-to-be-produced physical goods, then just make more of them when the time comes. Of course, because they need to know how many to have produced, IF they do things like this, they'll have a cutoff point for the additional orders before they actually need to send the order to the manufacturer.

 

If you're going to print/emboss/score 1,000 P:E boxes, you can easily just run 100 more through there. Going to burn 1,000 discs? Just do 1,100 instead. But, like books, they'll probably do one run of all the stuff, and that's it. It's not like when you say "Hey, I want a boxed game!", they get get some papersmith to manually hand-craft a manual and box, then they burn a disc and put a serial number on it, then ship that out via UPS.

 

So, I would bet that, unless they've already begun manufacturing the boxed-copy goods, or have some other good reason, they'll probably accept at least SOME additional amount of orders for them, for some duration of time.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Well, there's no point in turning down extra sales.  Boxed versions would be in demand with rpg fans, they always are popular with rpg games of this quality.  And since money would be made on each sale, why not?  That helps fund the next game that will be made even better.  Plus they would make great gifts for friends who are into rpg's. 

 

Well, more than 85% of the backers on the Kickstarter page took the digitial download route. So it seems there isn't a high demand for the boxed game. I would've thought Obsidian would be looking at lowering costs since the game has been in production for some time. Digital downloads would be the way to go. Not going back to printing boxes, discs and manuals.

 

When Obsidian puts up their fullfilment site, they might have an option to upgrade your pledge to a boxed version. However, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't have that option due to business reasons. It's not a case of printing an extra 100 boxes or printing off an extra 100 discs and manuals, there's a lot more to the business and logistical side of things than the printers saying, 'no worries, we can print off another 100 since we're already printing 10,000'. I could be wrong though and Obsidian may decide to reverse their decision and put in the option to upgrade to boxed versions. We'll just have to wait and see. From a business standpoint, you would be encouraging customers to go for the digital download.

[ManifestedISO]

no plans for boxed version outside of kickstater rewards

 

 

That would sure validate my hard work staying on the bleeding edge of PC gaming.   

[Dunedain]

Yeah, I was thinking along the lines of what you said, Lephys.  I doubt there would be any great difficulty in simply increasing the order size for the boxed copies when they place it with the company based on the number of slacker backer (at a higher price, of course, than the kickstarter level) and pre-orders they get.  And not every rpg fan knew about this game when it was on kickstarter, so there will surely be more who'd like to get boxed versions.  And as I said, it also makes for a great gift to wrap up for family or friends.   And I assume the basic boxed copy of the game will not be considered exclusive, unlike other physical goods.

[Stun]

i'm pretty sure they will negotiate with a distributer somewhere down the line, i'd say the boxed marked is still too strong to be ignored

With who's money will they be doing this?

 

Hopefully not with 1) The $4,000,000 we funded them or 2) The profits from the game's actual sales. Because they promised us that #1 would be used for the game, and #2 would be much better spent growing the franchise via future content, like expansion packs and a sequel.

 

But hey, Keep an eye on Ebay if you want a boxed version. I opted for the $140 tier, which means I'm getting a collector's box + a digital copy. I'll be playing this game with the digital copy, and I'll be keeping my collectors edition box unopened and unhandled. If the whim takes me, I might decide to sell it.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Stun

[Dunedain]

The answer is the money would come from the slacker backer donations, pre-paid in advance, this covers all their expenses up front.  There's no risk and no problem for Obsidian that way, and can have as many boxed versions as players want to order. 

[Lephys]

The answer is the money would come from the slacker backer donations, pre-paid in advance, this covers all their expenses up front.  There's no risk and no problem for Obsidian that way, and can have as many boxed versions as players want to order. 

This. It's like a lunch run for the office. "Hey, who wants a sandwich from Subway? You, you, you, and you? Okay, each of you give me $6, and I'm driving up to Subway, and I'll have them construct me 4 sandwiches, and I'll use this money you gave me to fund the sandwich-manufacturing process."

 

So long as you take orders prior to actually having the physical goods made, you can pretty much take as many orders as you'd like.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Lephys

[Pipyui]

This is probably true.  I don't feign any pretense of understanding the process, but I suspect that physical games aren't often handled like money where new shipments are sent out at intervals according to demand.  I suspect instead that most games manufacture all copies at once and distribute them, only worrying about producing more if the demand is high enough.

Obsidian will probably make a big batch for the backers and then some, but I would be surprised to see this turn into something you buy at walmart, unless hype and attention spike dramatically in the coming months.  Unless those sell out real well, that'll like be it, and they'll cruise digital.

[Stun]

 

The answer is the money would come from the slacker backer donations, pre-paid in advance, this covers all their expenses up front. There's no risk and no problem for Obsidian that way, and can have as many boxed versions as players want to order.

This. It's like a lunch run for the office. "Hey, who wants a sandwich from Subway? You, you, you, and you? Okay, each of you give me $6, and I'm driving up to Subway, and I'll have them construct me 4 sandwiches, and I'll use this money you gave me to fund the sandwich-manufacturing process."

 

So long as you take orders prior to actually having the physical goods made, you can pretty much take as many orders as you'd like.

 

So... made-to-order mass distribution through a Distributer?

 

LOL Sure. But really, don't hold your breath.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Stun

[Lephys]

So... made-to-order mass distribution through a Distributer?

 

LOL Sure. But really, don't hold your breath.

Ehh... I suppose they COULD be hand-making them individually. They could be hand-crafting each disc, as well. If they really, really wanted to, I suppose. However, if that isn't the case, then they'll be mass-produced in a batch. Distributed? I have no idea. Distributed to the people who ordered them, yeah. Maybe Obsidian'll do that, or maybe a third party will handle that. Maybe the same people who print all the boxes and assemble the physical goods into the final boxed copy products. Again, I have no idea exactly who's going to be doing it.

 

All I know is, when you make something like that, you design a template, then produce a bunch of them. Like the box. You get the size and shape of box you want, then print/emboss the cover art onto it, then fold it up into a box. If you want 1,000 boxes instead of 973 boxes, you put 27 more boxes into the big printing/embossing machinery. I mean, the manual... if there's a manual, that's quite literally just a book. It's paper that's been printed on, folded, and bonded together along a seam. You think they're not going to make a print run to produce a bunch of identical copies of the manual, in a mass batch? "Made-to-order"? Yeah, except the only thing variable is the quantity.

 

So, I don't know what I'm supposed to be holding my breath for, or why this whole "mass fabrication" process seems to be so crazy. o_o

Edited October 26, 2013 by Lephys

[Stun]

Lephys.... THINK. C'mon.

 

All I know is, when you make something like that, you design a template, then produce a bunch of them. Like the box. You get the size and shape of box you want, then print/emboss the cover art onto it, then fold it up into a box. If you want 1,000 boxes instead of 973 boxes, you put 27 more boxes into the big printing/embossing machinery. I mean, the manual... if there's a manual, that's quite literally just a book. It's paper that's been printed on, folded, and bonded together along a seam.

Who's "you"?

 

Obsidian is not a publisher. Nor do they own a distribution center. The physical goods that were offered to the backers in the month-long kickstarter were likely the result of a one-time deal they made with a small distributer. And the costs came straight out of the funding from the kickstarter. That period is now done.

 

For them to offer an on-going distribution service would cost more than what they have to make the game itself. This is why the only avaliable options in the Slacker-backer program are DIGITAL goods, to be distributed through Steam, GoG, and whatever they decide to use as a download site for the Mac version.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Stun