Susan Wilson's Kickstarter discussion (split topic)

[SqueakyCat]

Hurlshot - She's a Harvard graduate and very wealthy:

 

http://www.linkedin.com/in/susanawilson

 

500+ Connections

 

I've reported the project to KS - I'll wait to see what happens.  They really need to address the violations of the TOS - funding someone's life, twitter spamming, etc. 

[babaganoosh13]

If all they did was own a screening business, like the Carlton's here in town with whom I've done business with in the past with my ball teams, or the Morrison's whom handled the stuff for my bowling league; it wouldn't seem so bad. I would do it for them, if they asked.

 

What hit home for me was the shoes. If you can spend more for a pair of shoes, than what I take home in a paycheck (and I'm a machinist), you don't need my money. Apparently the story about those was she bought them after winning some money at a casino. But still, I wish them all the best, I hope her daughter goes on to be a great game producer, or anything else she decides she wants to be when she gets older. I'm just not going to give them my money, and I hope they do a lot of good with all of that extra money.

[Hurlshort]

Hurlshot - She's a Harvard graduate and very wealthy:

 

http://www.linkedin.com/in/susanawilson

 

500+ Connections

 

I've reported the project to KS - I'll wait to see what happens.  They really need to address the violations of the TOS - funding someone's life, twitter spamming, etc. 

 

Wow thanks, that does put things in perspective.  Well I'm utterly disgusted by the project now.

[LadyCrimson]

She's pulling the "death threats have been made" on the internets card now.

 

She's also claiming KS knows of/supports the project (quoting supposed emails from them), and is now saying she'll donate the extra funds to something other than her own pocket, so assuming that's true, I don't think its going anywhere. Personally, while I'm not approving, I also think this is getting blown out of proportion, just like the Gaming vs. Tropes thing. Always research a project before hitting the donate button, and if you don't like what you see, don't fund it. Seems simple enough.

[duskwind]

Everything about it looks like a typical middle class family. I make low six figures, and $850 is not and easy amount to come up with after all my bills and necessary expenses.

 

Um, six figures isn't middle class. You earn more than 95% of people in the US, and at least four times the median.

[alanschu]

She's pulling the "death threats have been made" on the internets card now.

 

She's also claiming KS knows of/supports the project (quoting supposed emails from them), and is now saying she'll donate the extra funds to something other than her own pocket, so assuming that's true, I don't think its going anywhere. Personally, while I'm not approving, I also think this is getting blown out of proportion, just like the Gaming vs. Tropes thing. Always research a project before hitting the donate button, and if you don't like what you see, don't fund it. Seems simple enough.

 

Sadly I wouldn't at all be surprised if she is getting threats against her life.

[Hurlshort]

 

Everything about it looks like a typical middle class family. I make low six figures, and $850 is not and easy amount to come up with after all my bills and necessary expenses.

 

Um, six figures isn't middle class. You earn more than 95% of people in the US, and at least four times the median.

 

Where I live it is very much middle class.  My wife and I are teachers, so moving somewhere else would simply cut our salaries by more than half.

[babaganoosh13]

 

She's pulling the "death threats have been made" on the internets card now.

 

She's also claiming KS knows of/supports the project (quoting supposed emails from them), and is now saying she'll donate the extra funds to something other than her own pocket, so assuming that's true, I don't think its going anywhere. Personally, while I'm not approving, I also think this is getting blown out of proportion, just like the Gaming vs. Tropes thing. Always research a project before hitting the donate button, and if you don't like what you see, don't fund it. Seems simple enough.

 

Sadly I wouldn't at all be surprised if she is getting threats against her life.

She posted the threats, along with their id's and avatars in the last update. Those idiots need to take some time away from the internet for a good long while and clear their heads. Go outside, play in the snow. Maybe it will be gone in time for the playoffs. BASEBALL PLAYOFFS!!!!

 

The good thing about the spot light is that it seems unlikely they will get away with just pocketing the extra cash. The rich getting richer off of a real economic and social issue. The bad thing is the idiots who take it too far and make things a million times worse than what it is.

 

---- I was going to look on her fundher.com sight to see if it shows what type of cut she takes. Hopefully it is more of a service where they take a smaller cut than kickstarter/Amazon. Even better would be a flat fee for successful projects. However, apparently that got hit too. This has gone waaaaaaay too far.

[alanschu]

 

The good thing about the spot light is that it seems unlikely they will get away with just pocketing the extra cash. The rich getting richer off of a real economic and social issue.  The bad thing is the idiots who take it too far and make things a million times worse than what it is.

 

This is the frustrating/delicious irony hahahaha.

[Oner]

She's pulling the "death threats have been made" on the internets card now.

 

She's also claiming KS knows of/supports the project (quoting supposed emails from them), and is now saying she'll donate the extra funds to something other than her own pocket, so assuming that's true, I don't think its going anywhere. Personally, while I'm not approving, I also think this is getting blown out of proportion, just like the Gaming vs. Tropes thing. Always research a project before hitting the donate button, and if you don't like what you see, don't fund it. Seems simple enough.

AFAIK the KS staff reviews a project before letting it go online, so yeah..

[BruceVC]

Hurlshot - She's a Harvard graduate and very wealthy:

 

http://www.linkedin.com/in/susanawilson

 

500+ Connections

 

I've reported the project to KS - I'll wait to see what happens.  They really need to address the violations of the TOS - funding someone's life, twitter spamming, etc. 

 

 

 

Hurlshot - She's a Harvard graduate and very wealthy:

 

http://www.linkedin.com/in/susanawilson

 

500+ Connections

 

I've reported the project to KS - I'll wait to see what happens.  They really need to address the violations of the TOS - funding someone's life, twitter spamming, etc. 

 

Wow thanks, that does put things in perspective.  Well I'm utterly disgusted by the project now.

 

As I mentioned I am appalled and highly irritated by this KS  but a high number of LinkedIn connections doesn't mean anything, I have over 500 connections and I can promise you I am not a millionaire. People often just accept connections by other people, also there is no verification done around your certification credentials so I can say "I'm a CEO " and I may not be. But saying that her LinkedIn profile does reveal some of the subterfuge she is practicing, IMO.

 

She says " An award-winning serial entrepreneur with a proven track record of success, I'm particularly good at creating something from nothing or making the most playing the hand I'm dealt". Note the words " I'm good at creaing something from nothing"

 

 

Now lets look at this particular KS. If you were looking at KS trends that have raised money quickly we can see how RPG have the ability to raise money and get people pledging. We know that Torment broke records. So what does this lady do. Not only does she claim she is making an RPG but she says her 9 old daughter who is being victimized by her brothers wants to. So in one KS attempt she appeals to

 

• Any feminist, she plays the "female trying to make it in tough male dominated world" card
• Any developer who has had a tough time in there lives trying to make a game
• People that love to support RPG

If you read the comments of people that have supported her you will see they almost all come from those groups. They are not supporting her because of the logic or feasibility behind the game but rather who she says she is. Its more of an emotional support.

 

I have no issue with people spending money on what they want but I find this whole KS reprehensible because she is  someone who knows how to play people and she is truly taking advantage of people that should be spending money on legitmate projects. I hope I am proven wrong but I can guarantee you we will never see an RPG from her 9 year old daughter 

Edited March 28, 2013 by BruceVC

[mute688]

Personally, I don't care about the campaign itself.  If it's a scam, people have had ample warning and they still chose to back it.  My concern is the integrity of kickstarter itself.  If the site rules can be ignored in this case, what guarantee do we have that other rules are being monitored and policed equally and consistently?  I've lost confidence in the long term integrity and viability of Kickstarter and wont be backing any more projects.

 

Stated goal on the campaign page, " My goal is to raise $829 to cover the cost of RPG Camp."

 

From the Kickstarter Guidlines page:

 

Prohibited uses:

• 
  No "fund my life" projects.
  
  

  Examples include projects to pay tuition or bills, go on vacation, or buy a new camera.

Everyone keeps focusing on the game that is being given as a backer reward but it is just that, a backer reward. The game is not the goal of the campaign any more than the mugs and other merchandise given as backer rewards.  The goal is to raise tuition.

Edited March 28, 2013 by mute688

[BruceVC]

Personally, I don't care about the campaign itself.  If it's a scam, people have had ample warning and they still chose to back it.  My concern is the integrity of kickstarter itself.  If the site rules can be ignored in this case, what guarantee do we have that other rules are being monitored and policed equally and consistently?  I've lost confidence in the long term integrity and viability of Kickstarter and wont be backing any more projects.

 

Stated goal on the campaign page, " My goal is to raise $829 to cover the cost of RPG Camp."

 

From the Kickstarter Guidlines page:

 

Prohibited uses:

• No "fund my life" projects.

   

  Examples include projects to pay tuition or bills, go on vacation, or buy a new camera.

Everyone keeps focusing on the game that is being given as a backer reward but it is just that, a backer reward. The game is not the goal of the campaign any more than the mugs and other merchandise given as backer rewards.  The goal is to raise tuition.

 

Thats actually a very good point, I would imagine this is in direct contravention of KS policy. Do the KS rules actually state "no pay my tuition bills" ?

[mute688]

Yes, it does.  Here's the link to the relevant page:

 

http://www.kickstarter.com/help/guidelines

 

As for backers not receiving an actual game, it is in the terms and conditions that if rewards are not given, backers are entitled to a refund.

 

Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.

 

http://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use

[BruceVC]

Yes, it does.  Here's the link to the relevant page:

 

http://www.kickstarter.com/help/guidelines

 

As for backers not receiving an actual game, it is in the terms and conditions that if rewards are not given, backers are entitled to a refund.

 

Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.

 

http://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use

 

 

Then I really don't get this, it makes no sense. I am going to complain directly to KS

 

Edit: How do you send an email of complaint to KS? I can't seem find the link

Edited March 28, 2013 by BruceVC

[mute688]

The easiest way is to go to the particular campaign page that you are complaining about.  At the bottom of the page is a "Report this project to Kickstarter" button.  There is also a "Contact" button below that.

 

I don't think it will make any difference though.  As far as I can tell there have been hundreds of reports made against the project but the project creator has quoted an email from a Kickstarter staff member who congratulated her on her project and told her to ignore the complaints.

 

Mar 22 17:50 (EDT): hi Susan, This is john from Kickstarter. I sent out an email earlier in the day, I'm not sure you've seen it yet. I'm attaching it below for your reference - let me know if you have questions and I'll be happy to help you out.

 hi Susan, This is John from kickstarter, we just wanted to get an email out to you with some quick thoughts. First of all - let me just say congratulations. This is an awesome project, and we love seeing such a positive outlook on creativity and ambition geared towards young people. You're a very cool mom for helping her out...A couple of specific thoughts on what you
can do to make the project more manageable: You don't have to create stretch goals. It's completely optional. If Mackenzie has something she wants to do for backers to show her appreciation that won't be a burden on her and your family, she can do it. But please don't feel obliged to create stretch goals...Finally, for all the folks in the comment section nitpicking, there are exponentially more that are rooting for you, Mackenzie (AND her brother!). You can count the folks at kickstarter in that crowd. Please let us know if you have any questions,
John

 Bolding was hers, not mine

Edited March 28, 2013 by mute688

[BruceVC]

The easiest way is to go to the particular campaign page that you are complaining about.  At the bottom of the page is a "Report this project to Kickstarter" button.  There is also a "Contact" button below that.

 

I don't think it will make any difference though.  As far as I can tell there have been hundreds of reports made against the project but the project creator has quoted an email from a Kickstarter staff member who congratulated her on her project and told her to ignore the complaints.

 

Mar 22 17:50 (EDT): hi Susan, This is john from Kickstarter. I sent out an email earlier in the day, I'm not sure you've seen it yet. I'm attaching it below for your reference - let me know if you have questions and I'll be happy to help you out.

 hi Susan, This is John from kickstarter, we just wanted to get an email out to you with some quick thoughts. First of all - let me just say congratulations. This is an awesome project, and we love seeing such a positive outlook on creativity and ambition geared towards young people. You're a very cool mom for helping her out...A couple of specific thoughts on what you

can do to make the project more manageable: You don't have to create stretch goals. It's completely optional. If Mackenzie has something she wants to do for backers to show her appreciation that won't be a burden on her and your family, she can do it. But please don't feel obliged to create stretch goals...Finally, for all the folks in the comment section nitpicking, there are exponentially more that are rooting for you, Mackenzie (AND her brother!). You can count the folks at kickstarter in that crowd. Please let us know if you have any questions,

John

 Bolding was hers, not mine

 

 

Thanks for this, I am going to raise some constructive issues I have with this KS anyway. I really feel this is abuse of the KS system and the least I can do is  post my grievances politely

[mute688]

Good luck.    If they take the project down I'd reconsider backing projects in the future, but if they are willing to allow personal "warm and fuzzy" feelings of goodwill to over-ride site rules, then I lack the confidence in the Kickstarter concept as they are implementing it.  The only thing separating this from outright charity is the perception of structured rules and terms of use.  Without them the kickstarter concept loses much of it's appeal.

[Nepenthe]

Good luck.    If they take the project down I'd reconsider backing projects in the future, but if they are willing to allow personal "warm and fuzzy" feelings of goodwill to over-ride site rules, then I lack the confidence in the Kickstarter concept as they are implementing it.  The only thing separating this from outright charity is the perception of structured rules and terms of use.  Without them the kickstarter concept loses much of it's appeal.

You bring up very good points.

[Hurlshort]

I'm glad to hear Bruce is sending in a complaint, I know he is voicing the concerns many of us have with the project.  Good luck!

[alanschu]

Yeah I agree with the issues mute and others have put forward.

 

At first I was like "meh feel good story, I don't really care."  But upon seeing the rules, I don't like the idea of this continuing on even if it's a "feel good story" (which I'm less inclined to think it is) because it seems to me that there are very serious terms of use violations.

 

The cynic in me also recognizes that Kickstarter will profit from this.

[SqueakyCat]

@BruceVC   I wasn't clear regarding the connections.  The point being, if she has so  many 'connections' and is only trying to raise $829, why go to Kickstarter? 

 

I didn't read every post on this topic, but there's a lot more going on than just this particular Kickstarter.  She has made several attempts on IndieGoGo with other scams and always with 'Flexible Funding' so she reaps the rewards regardless of whether the project is funded or not.

 

This one I call 'Crowd Sourcing Your Family Vacation' (including scuba gear and metal detectors).  If only they had included more photos in the rewards -- maybe photos of sharks, squids, sand castles, etc. -- if might have taken off (end sarcasm). 

 

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/help-me-get-these-kids-off-video-games-hunting-for-real-treasure?c=home

 

And then there's this.  It really doesn't require explanation.

 

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/phone-case-holds-essentials-in-1-place?c=home

 

http://www.amazon.com/Incipio-IPH-677-iPhone-Stowaway-Silicone/dp/B005WALLP6  (Look familiar?)

 

And this:

 

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/truths-of-top-women-in-biz-politics-sports

 

She tried another scam on Kickstarter.  This at least laughingly complied with Kickstarters TOS:

 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/susanwilson/the-cape-project?ref=users

 

I could go on and on, but I think it's fairly clear what's happening.  I don't think her wealth (or lack thereof) is the issue.  Clearly, a lot of money has passed through her hands over the years.  Obviously, that doesn't mean she still has any of it left -- either through mismanagement or living a lifestyle she can't afford. 

 

She recently said in an interview that, given all the controversy, she was planning to pay the tuition herself which begs the question, 'Why is the Kickstarter still going?'.

 

http://kotaku.com/internet-rallies-against-kickstarter-for-nine-year-old-459542190

 

I believe more than a few hundred people have reported the project, but apparently Kickstarter is comfortable with the scenario.  Hey, my daughter is going to start grad school in a year or so.  Maybe I can start a Kickstarter to help her, and everyone will receive an e-book on Linguistics when she's completed -- sounds fair enough, right?

 

I'm done with Kickstarter.  If there's a project I want to back, I'll use Paypal if it's an option -- otherwise I won't be backing it. 

[Hurlshort]

I believe she is getting around the Kickstarter TOS by releasing the game that her daughter creates.  Technically that isn't too far from what we do when we pay a small developer to make a game.  

[SqueakyCat]

The Kickstarter clearly stated that the money was for tuition -- that is not allowed.

 

"I'm raising $829 to cover the cost of attending this RPG STEM Camp for kids 9-12 years old for a week."

 

Unless I missed something, we aren't backing Obsidian to pay for tuition to send Josh to school to learn how to make a RPG.

Edited March 28, 2013 by SqueakyCat

[entrerix]

why on earth would ANYONE donate to this?  i so confused....