Might & Magic X Teased by Ubisoft, To Be Revealed at PAX East

[Keyrock]

Even the ambush wasn't hard, just lengthy.  I got through it on the first try without having anyone even fall unconscious (well, not for more than a round, and not ever at a moment when experience was given out).

[Humanoid]

Yeah, the experience thing is pretty weird. Death or even unconsciousness, sure. But being stunned for one round denies you XP? Also the weird 5% bonus for dealing the killing blow - it's led to some OCD manipulation from me to make sure the numbers are as even as possible. I get irritated when they don't all level at more or less the same time.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Yeah, the experience thing is pretty weird. Death or even unconsciousness, sure. But being stunned for one round denies you XP? Also the weird 5% bonus for dealing the killing blow - it's led to some OCD manipulation from me to make sure the numbers are as even as possible. I get irritated when they don't all level at more or less the same time.

I know. I just suck it up. I do like it makes the party level up out of sync, and that a party member doing something great, like my dwarf in the example gets extra xp for it.  

 

This game has also made me realize how much I've missed a party of four in a CRPG. Six pcs in a party gets a bit rich, awkward and whimsical at times, but four is just right.

 

So, how did those rations work if you buy from several places again? I didn't get it. Was it like Keyrock suggested: That there is a set max of rations for each vendor, and if you go to another, you'll get them all filled up to whatever that vendor's max number is?

[Humanoid]

Vendors will fill you up to a different maximum depending on the vendor, however there's no need to run yourself down to zero supplies before restocking, the price will be charged per unit. The price per unit is different for each shop, but honestly, supplies are so cheap regardless that it doesn't matter by the time you have access to multiple vendors.

 

e.g. One vendor might sell at 10g each to a maximum of 6, another at 15g each to a maximum of 10. At zero supplies you can buy from the first and end up with 6, paying 60g, or buy from the second and end up with 10 for 150g. Optimally you'd buy the 6 first, then go to the other vendor and top up to 10, paying a pro-rata additional 60g, thus saving 30g compared to buying from the second merchant alone.

 

In practice though that's such a piddling amount of money that it's not worth anyone's time. Just buy from whereever you are at the time, and if you need to max out for whatever reason, go to the itinerant merchant during act 1, to Seahaven during act 2, and to the inn outside Karthal after that.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Yet another tale from the crypt here!

 

Well, some sort of tips, actually.

 

When you cast spells like Light Orb or Shadow Reveal(?), these actually stick around after you've rested for 8 h like nothing has happened. That's generous!

 

Don't underestimate the spells Dispel Magic (in Act 2 it's been a life safer. I even hoard those scrolls). The same goes for Shadow Cloak (novice Dark). When you meet a single powerful opponent, your mage cast this and let your taunt tank fighter take the brunt of that horrible hit. Then rinse and repeat. It was hilarious when I met a certain crystalline gargantuan, and I only needed two party members to finish him off with the combo of Shadow Cloak and Challenge going in a loop. Warning: the requirement is that you have a very good tank that can take those hits. And if your mage has prepped the party with Stone Skin and Celestial Armor, all the better.

 

And yet a bug:

I got a Shelanna's Blessing, but when I wanted to pass a certain bridge, it still said: You don't have Shelanna's Blessing.

[Humanoid]

Yeah, all buffs like that, and so do debuffs. Which leads to odd situations like being poisoned with 1hp left, if you take one step you die, if you sleep for 8 hours, you wake up at full health ....with the poison still on.

[Keyrock]

I use the buffs/debuffs carrying over during rest to my advantage all the time.  When my party is worn and I'm about to rest I always cast Whispering Shadows and Dark Vision (when I'm in a dark dungeon) before I rest (assuming I have enough mana).  Dispel Magic is very useful.  The downside of the spell is that it wipes out your buffs too, and I'm usually constantly running Celestial Armor and often Stone Skin, but when you have debilitated party members and you don't have the spell to remove the specific status ailment or that party member can't cast (stunned, feebleminded), then you gotta do what you gotta do and cast Dispel Magic.  I have 5 scrolls of Dispel Magic in my inventory that I've gathered from my travels.  I hang onto them for emergency situations.

 

At this point in the game, physical damage has become of secondary concern to me.  As long as I have Celestial Armor up, which is to say almost all the time, then I'm quite confident I can survive anything short of a particularly brutal critical.  What does me in more than anything is getting debilitated.  This is why over the next few levels I'm going to focus heavily on Arcane Discipline, something I probably shouldn't have neglected this long (it was always a "I'll get around to it next level" skill).  By the time I hit level 20, I plan to have at bare minimum one, and hopefully two, characters that are master level in the skill.  My Hunter is at expert right now, my Shaman is close to expert (I'll likely get expert next level up), and the Defender and Freemage have some work to do.

 

My Hunter is quickly becoming my best defensive character.  She can't block quite as well as the Defender and doesn't have as much health, but she still blocks fairly well (because spear) and her evade value is high, so attacks flat out miss her quite often.  My plan is to grand master in Spear, Dodge, Arcane Discipline, and at least master in Endurance, grand master if I can afford the points.  If I can grand master those 4 skills I'm going to be laughing at enemies' futile attempts to harm me.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Keyrock

[Humanoid]

There's literally not enough experience in the game to GM four skills, I think the maths was such that you could GM three and Master one at best. That's capping out at level 33, and that already takes into consideration the +10% XP hireling.

 

...unless, of course, you find and exploit the respawn bug. There's a bug that involves some sort of interaction with the Lloyd's Spirit Beacon spell that can cause everything, including bosses, to respawn in the game. Without it, nothing ever respawns.

 

It's weird then that there's actually an achievement for hitting level 40, which is currently impossible. Either an oversight, or a sign of some significant DLC to come. And technically the XP table already ingame supports up to level 50.

 

 

 

EDIT: Just hit a bug where one of my portraits, including health and mana bars, disappeared, and nothing in its place but a grey rectangle. Loading screens or save-reloading don't solve it, restarting now.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Humanoid

[IndiraLightfoot]

I use the buffs/debuffs carrying over during rest to my advantage all the time.  When my party is worn and I'm about to rest I always cast Whispering Shadows and Dark Vision (when I'm in a dark dungeon) before I rest (assuming I have enough mana).  Dispel Magic is very useful.  The downside of the spell is that it wipes out your buffs too, and I'm usually constantly running Celestial Armor and often Stone Skin, but when you have debilitated party members and you don't have the spell to remove the specific status ailment or that party member can't cast (stunned, feebleminded), then you gotta do what you gotta do and cast Dispel Magic. 

 

What does me in more than anything is getting debilitated.  This is why over the next few levels I'm going to focus heavily on Arcane Discipline, something I probably shouldn't have neglected this long (it was always a "I'll get around to it next level" skill).  By the time I hit level 20, I plan to have at bare minimum one, and hopefully two, characters that are master level in the skill. 

Heh, I've totally neglected Arcane Discipline too. It seems wise to invest some points into that.

And yeah, using that cast WS and Light Or before rest seems like a neat little harmless trick.

Interesting that your Hunter is such a defensive star. Thanks to Humanoid's tips, I've turned my Defender into a taunt tank. So, in order, Buff-Mage, Pain-Dealer, Pain-Dealer, Taunt Tank.

And...

 

Wouldn't you know it, but I happened to find an Axe of Taunting today!   With Challenge and decent amounts of mana and lots of resistances, she's a black hole now.

 

Edited January 31, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[IndiraLightfoot]

It's weird then that there's actually an achievement for hitting level 40, which is currently impossible. Either an oversight, or a sign of some significant DLC to come. And technically the XP table already ingame supports up to level 50.

 

EDIT: Just hit a bug where one of my portraits, including health and mana bars, disappeared, and nothing in its place but a grey rectangle. Loading screens or save-reloading don't solve it, restarting now.

I really hope you're right there. More M&M X is what I want right now. Well, soon I have those Uplay points that will get me some extra dungeon, and I was one of the Early Access supporters, reporting bugs and such, so we get the first DLC: Falcon something, for free. Let's hope it's a big one. I think there will be a big dungeon to those that bought the Deluxe version as well.

 

Ouch! Nasty bug, that!

[Keyrock]

 

I use the buffs/debuffs carrying over during rest to my advantage all the time.  When my party is worn and I'm about to rest I always cast Whispering Shadows and Dark Vision (when I'm in a dark dungeon) before I rest (assuming I have enough mana).  Dispel Magic is very useful.  The downside of the spell is that it wipes out your buffs too, and I'm usually constantly running Celestial Armor and often Stone Skin, but when you have debilitated party members and you don't have the spell to remove the specific status ailment or that party member can't cast (stunned, feebleminded), then you gotta do what you gotta do and cast Dispel Magic. 

 

What does me in more than anything is getting debilitated.  This is why over the next few levels I'm going to focus heavily on Arcane Discipline, something I probably shouldn't have neglected this long (it was always a "I'll get around to it next level" skill).  By the time I hit level 20, I plan to have at bare minimum one, and hopefully two, characters that are master level in the skill. 

Heh, I've totally neglected Arcane Discipline too. It seems wise to invest some points into that.

And yeah, using that cast WS and Light Or before rest seems like a neat little harmless trick.

Interesting that your Hunter is such a defensive star. Thanks to Humanoid's tips, I've turned my Defender into a taunt tank. So, in order, Buff-Mage, Pain-Dealer, Pain-Dealer, Taunt Tank.

And...

 

Wouldn't you know it, but I happened to find an Axe of Taunting today!   With Challenge and decent amounts of mana and lots of resistances, she's a black hole now.

 

 

To the best of my knowledge, Hunters can't use axes.  Were you thinking Barbarian?

 

My Hunter is my favorite class thus far in the game.  Both an offensive powerhouse and a versatile defensive character.  My Defender is the best at defending strictly against physical attacks (because armor, shield, high vitality), but my Hunter can deal with physical attacks pretty well too and is very resilient against magic.  On the offensive end she stabs right through armor (because spear), or what's left of it (because shatter), and does massive damage (because high might, weapon skill) and crazy criticals (because orc).  In theory, she could cast air magic spells too, but I doubt I'll ever have the points to put in that skill.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Keyrock

[IndiraLightfoot]

Heh, that was aimed at my Defender, which is all about axes. And given her taunting role already that was a godsend.

Edited January 31, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Hurlshort]

I'm seriously hoping they release new content ASAP.  I'm burning through this game and I really want more!

 

Other than Legend of Grimrock, we don't really have a lot of other options for this type of fix.

 

I'm a bit concerned about all the negative nellies I see on the internet.  I know this game isn't perfect, but it is such an awesome return to a long forgotten genre, and I hope it makes enough money to keep it going.

[Humanoid]

I'm a bit ambivalent, depends how much the limitations of the game are inherent to the game itself. While new content is in itself welcome, my position is that they've proven they can recreate the experience of the old games - now let's see them make improvements to the formula. Question is whether it'd need a full blown sequel to demonstrate that.

[Keyrock]

I'm seriously hoping they release new content ASAP.  I'm burning through this game and I really want more!

 

Other than Legend of Grimrock, we don't really have a lot of other options for this type of fix.

 

I'm a bit concerned about all the negative nellies I see on the internet.  I know this game isn't perfect, but it is such an awesome return to a long forgotten genre, and I hope it makes enough money to keep it going.

That sums up my feelings pretty well.  I hope the DLC comes out soon and I hope this sells well enough to convince Ubi to have them do a full blown sequel (Elevenquel?).

[IndiraLightfoot]

Yes, yes, YES!! Give us more!!!

[Keyrock]

♫ In the midnight hour we cried "more, more, more"

With a rebel yell we cried "more, more, more"

In the midnight hour Ubi "more, more, more"

With a rebel yell "more, more, more"

More, more, more ♫

[Giantevilhead]

The game was fun but it had lots of problems. I like the classes. The combat is good. I like all the monsters, even though they were just copied from Heroes 5 and 6, and Dark Messiah since the old M&M games did that too. There's a lot of freedom to wander around and do whatever you want once you get past the first act.

 

However, they went a bit too far with the "old school" thing. There are a ton of features that Might and Magic 6, 7, and 8 had that this game doesn't. Heck, it's missing a few features that Might and Magic 2 had. There's no chest or stash to store your stuff. Spells don't get additional abilities on higher levels like in M&M 6, 7, 8. There are fewer skills than in M&M 6, 7, and 8. The loot isn't as good as in M&M 6, 7, and 8. In fact, even though I enjoyed the game, playing it made me want to play Might and Magic 7 and 8 again.

[Hurlshort]

The only problem with replaying the older M&M games is they look horrible.  Seriously, they just did not age well.

[LadyCrimson]

The only problem with replaying the older M&M games is they look horrible.  Seriously, they just did not age well.

They looked horrible even when released.

That said, if you play them not full-screen (on today's monitors), it's better. I think what bugs me most these days is that tiny gameplay window area vs. the GUI.

[Giantevilhead]

Yeah, the mix of 3D models and sprites did not work well for those games.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Giantevilhead

[Keyrock]

However, they went a bit too far with the "old school" thing. There are a ton of features that Might and Magic 6, 7, and 8 had that this game doesn't. Heck, it's missing a few features that Might and Magic 2 had. There's no chest or stash to store your stuff. Spells don't get additional abilities on higher levels like in M&M 6, 7, 8. There are fewer skills than in M&M 6, 7, and 8. The loot isn't as good as in M&M 6, 7, and 8. In fact, even though I enjoyed the game, playing it made me want to play Might and Magic 7 and 8 again.

Well, the devs specifically targeted World of Xeen (M&M 4&5) as the games to pattern this after, so it's no wonder that stuff in M&M 6 and onward wasn't in this game.  I agree there is plenty of room for improvement, but I think that for a first effort in this series and this type of game for a relatively unknown developer, they did a pretty good job.  Which makes me all the more eager to see what they could do with the series now that they have some experience under their belt.

[Giantevilhead]

 

However, they went a bit too far with the "old school" thing. There are a ton of features that Might and Magic 6, 7, and 8 had that this game doesn't. Heck, it's missing a few features that Might and Magic 2 had. There's no chest or stash to store your stuff. Spells don't get additional abilities on higher levels like in M&M 6, 7, 8. There are fewer skills than in M&M 6, 7, and 8. The loot isn't as good as in M&M 6, 7, and 8. In fact, even though I enjoyed the game, playing it made me want to play Might and Magic 7 and 8 again.

Well, the devs specifically targeted World of Xeen (M&M 4&5) as the games to pattern this after, so it's no wonder that stuff in M&M 6 and onward wasn't in this game.  I agree there is plenty of room for improvement, but I think that for a first effort in this series and this type of game for a relatively unknown developer, they did a pretty good job.  Which makes me all the more eager to see what they could do with the series now that they have some experience under their belt.

 

 

But that doesn't make any sense since the later M&M games improved upon a lot of the gameplay and features that were in the older games. For example, they added a lot of simple improvements like more map markers and extra information in your journals like the locations of trainers.

 

In fact, this game has features that weren't added until M&M6, 7,and 8 but they're incomplete. For example, the skill mastery system was introduced in Might and Magic 6, and in that game, some spells gained more abilities based on how high the spell school's mastery was, but this game does not have that. Similarly, hirelings were introduced in M&M6 and in that game, quest related hirelings do not take up your regular hireling slots, but quest hirelings take up your regular hireling slots in this game.

 

Also, this game is missing features that were in older M&M games too. For example, with the Lloyd's beacon spell, which was introduced in Might and Magic 2, every character can have their own beacon so you can set up a make shift waypoint fast travel system where you can have one character set a beacon in town and one character set a beacon near a dungeon to easily travel between the two places. In this game, your entire party can only have one beacon, which only makes it useful as a simple town portal spell.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Giantevilhead

[Keyrock]

I'm not going to argue the particulars of each game in the series with you bevcause it's been a decade since I played any of the older games, and my memory is far from photographic.  Suffice to say, I'll take your word for it.  I'm sure they took elements from many of the games, but their main target was World of Xeen (they stated so, but I'm too lazy to look for a link).  As a dev who had never made a Might & Magic game before, or any type of old school RGP, they likely cherry picked features they thought would work together, and, as anyone with little or no experience doing something, made missteps.  My point is, all things considered, the game turned out pretty doggone well.  I think they really nailed the combat mechanics and difficulty level.  Sure they could have implemented more features and done a lot of things better, but they exceeded my expectations and made a game I'm really enjoying.

 

Edit:  Just killed the Shadow Dragon.  At level 17, it was a piece of cake.  The warfare skill that stops enemies from casting makes that battle much easier.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Keyrock

[Giantevilhead]

I'm certainly willing to cut the developer a lot of slack, especially for all the pointless lore stuff they had to shove in and even for most of the bugs. I'll lay the blame at Ubisoft's feet for that.

 

And I do enjoy the game but too often, it's like I'm watching the remake of a movie, albeit a (mostly) competent one. Whereas with the previous games, every new game felt like a sequel, at least up until 9.

 

Also, I should point out that this was an early access game. People actually brought up the issues I mentioned and they made a lot of good suggestions on how to improve the game during the early access period, which lasted several months. However, it seems that the developer did not listen to a lot of the feedback.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Giantevilhead