"Ghost" Mechanics during [Pause]; Scry

[Osvir]

During pause, being able to cast a spell or have an UI mechanic that let's you [scry] the battle outcome. Being able to move characters in a sort of "Directive" mode.

1. There's 3 guards ahead
2. Pause
3. In Ghost-Form, you move up your Rogue
4. Enemy Ghost-Forms notice you~Ghost-Form dissolves. Still in Pause, if Enemy Ghost Form doesn't notice you go to (6).
5a. If Ghost-Form could be used as an ability: Twice a day use or Once a day.
5b. If Ghost-Form could be used abundantly, start over at "3".
6. Continue with the Ghost-Form through the level until you get noticed.



What this allows for is, the player can go about "Will I be detected if I go this path?" during quests and would be less time consuming than "Save+Reload" (Loading screen when you reload). Send forward your Rogue in Ghost-Form, and the enemies also has Ghost-Forms that reacts in this [Paused] Ghost-Mode without consequence (except time consuming). I think this could be a great tool for a stealth approach, being able to see what will happen if you go into a certain direction.

Finally when you've found a successful path forward, un-pause, and now it comes to the test of actually doing it.

Generally, I think it could help in a "Collective" Scout Mode for any class/race and help in a stealth approach a lot as well with some sort of harmless scout mode. The only thing I could think of was this "Ghost" thing.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Osvir

[TRX850]

Reminds me of Wizard Eye.

 

 

I suppose crucially, if a ghost-rogue or wizard eye was detectable and allowed enemies to move and attack them, it might disrupt the intention of placed encounters in the area. One group of enemies could end up mingling with another group and so on.

 

But as we saw with the cursed items discussion, anything that can reduce rage-and-reload should be considered as part of the design.

 

Edit:

 

Slightly off topic, what if wizard eye was made into a special ability to be used 1/Day instead of a spell? I'm guessing it never made it into the IWD series because it was overpowered as a spell. If it was handled more like a wizard's familiar, but with a short duration, it could work.

Edited January 22, 2013 by TRX850

[Juneau]

Eye of Kilrogg..?

[Jenda]

I think OP didn't mean just a scouting avatar, like the "eyes" mentioned above, but instead more like a divination-type ability whereby the actual game would pause, but an identical copy of the game would play out, graphically displayed as an overlay in somewhat ghost-like colors. It's like a brief alternate reality going on and in fact exactly the same as saving, playing for a few seconds, and reloading. Could be limited by time, or by being first discovered, or by distance from "caster".

 

If I'm understanding the OP correctly, it could be an extremely interesting concept, although it would probably change the game a LOT. This sounds more like a cipher (or diviner) ability than one of a rogue. Reminds me of the game Braid (where you could shift/rewind time at will), or perhaps the movie "Next" with Nick Cage (if I recall correctly), where he was able to see all possible outcomes of a given situation. This could be used as a concept for a whole new game, too.

[Gfted1]

So what this idea represents is consequence free stealth? If the player can stealth by, great. If they get caught, no problems.

[Hormalakh]

I don't see how this benefits gameplay other than to limit quickloads. Am I missing something?

[Osvir]

@Gfted1:

Static Point A
[Pause] -> Ghost -> Noticed -> No problems (Unpausing would be the same thing as "Reload").
[Pause] -> Ghost -> Not-noticed -> You've just divined a path forward, wouldn't mean that you are at Point B, your party would still be at Point A.

Point A to Point B:
Save -> Sneak -> Noticed -> Reload.
Save -> Sneak -> Not-noticed -> You've just managed to get to point B, you ninja you.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Osvir

[Hormalakh]

Is it worth the development time to implement the mechanics though? Let players relod if they wish.

[Osvir]

Oh it has nothing about "I don't want the Players to reload".

It's about cool mechanics at this point, to get that knowledge on how to "pass" with in-game abilities. Instead of going all trial-and-error and reload 500 times just because it's challenging and not because it's "I just have to reload to reload!!".

A "Ghost" thing-stuff could actually help the Player through the Stealth path.

[MReed]

This is an interesting mechanic -- but I'm not sure it is right for this game.  I'd explain it this way:

 

A successful rogue would have learned whether or not he/she can manage to sneak by (say) a set of guards in a particular circumstance -- based, for example, on the ambient lighting, other environmental effects, the alertness of the guards (are there any distractions?), and perhaps a dozen other factors.  However, a normal RPG game doesn't have any way of conveying this information to the player, requiring a save / reload strategy.  This mechanic provides a (awkward, admittedly) way for the game to communicate this information.

 

However, it is a pretty elaborate mechanic -- if PE was going to revolve around stealth gameplay then it would be appropriate (think "Thief"), but in a more generic RPG I think the cost-benefit ratio is rather doubtful.

 

But it is definitely a good idea.

[Osvir]

It could be as simple as this (and not [Pause]), and perhaps not necessarily even a spell that can get noticed (except by Cipher/Wizard).
Copy Actor/Model -> Add blue texture (to signify "Ghost") -> Walk around

This is totally Cipher or Wizard Stealth stuff. What!? Only the Rogue has Stealth-stuff??

A Barbarian managing to sneak up to someone should be able to take them out with greater force (non-lethaly) than what a Rogue would~maybe (More powerful "knock-out" but also makes more noise).

Generally, there needs to be a good "Scry" spell in some way, that you can see the area ahead of you whether it is by the click of a button (League of Legends Clairvoyance spell) or if you need to control a "Hawk" or a "Wizard's Eye" (A floating orb that you can send forward, 1HP thing... Eye of Kilrogg yes, Warcraft 2). Most of the Stealth games I can think of has some way to know what lies ahead of you visually. Nightvision goggles, Zoom functions, "See through walls" and "Heat" sight etc.etc.

Text could function as well: You use "Scry" spell and you get in your text "There's 2 guards" ahead (simplified). But it would be nice with some sort of spell or interaction that gives you "binoculars"~ perhaps getting the blueprints of the Castle at a Noble's Mansion could also be part of "stealth". Being able to read and prepare for the path of least resistance.

[JFSOCC]

I think it's a really cool concept, especially if you can't save during combat or certain encounters) As a way to gain information. I like this as a(n expensive) divination spell, yes!