Update #38: Meet the Developers with Mark Bremerkamp, Lead Animator

[Valorian]

Having more than 1 attack animation does not equal making an AAA game.

[Malekith]

Having more than 1 attack animation does not equal making an AAA game.

How many attack animations the IE games had?

[Valorian]

That's a good question, Malekith, even though it's already been answered.

 

Those over-a-decade-old games in question have more than 1 attack animation per weapon style. Monsters have also generally more than 1 attack animation.

There's exploding death too. And fiery death as well. And stone shattering death. And ice shattering death. And electricity overkill... And so on.

Still. Multiple attack animations were in.

[Hormalakh]

 

I also loved Chuck Jones and grew up with his work. Which of his works do you like best?

-There are too many to list. Here's a good sample...  

Cheers

-Mark

Watching that video brought back so many memories. I just spent an hour watching Bugs with my wife! The Rabbit of Seville still cracks me up to this day. I hope you've forced your kids to watch these as it would be a sad childhood without Chuck Jones. He was always able to effectively use the music to tell his stories. Amazing. Here's the Rabbit of Seville without the dialogue and a "stylized" Barber of Seville composition.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mykC1QPCAw

 

How do?

Welcome to my shop

Let me cut your mop

Let me shave your crop

Daintily, daintily... Hey, you!

Don't look so perplexed

Why must you be vexed?

Can't you see you're next?

Yes, you're next, you're so next!

 

 

Still cracks me up.

[Stun]

 

 

ToEE  had quite a variety of attack animations per combat style.

 

Did it?

 

I don't remember that.  I remember  only 2 per weapon.    1. the basic attack animation  and 2. the critical hit animation

No. The animation is different for miss, as well. 

That's 3 times as many attack animations. They were aestetically pleasing and well done, too.

 

 

 2:44

Er... there's only 2 animations per weapon-type in this video.

 

1) attack

2)critical hit.

 

Misses didn't look any different from basic attacks.  They just had different sound effects, and of course, they swung at air.  The animations themselves, though, were exactly the same as a standard hit.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Stun

[Sacred_Path]

.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Sacred_Path

[Valorian]

 

 

 

ToEE  had quite a variety of attack animations per combat style.

 

Did it?

 

I don't remember that.  I remember  only 2 per weapon.    1. the basic attack animation  and 2. the critical hit animation

No. The animation is different for miss, as well. 

That's 3 times as many attack animations. They were aestetically pleasing and well done, too.

 

 

 2:44

Er... there's only 2 animations per weapon-type in this video.

 

1) attack

2)critical hit.

 

Misses didn't look any different from basic attacks.  They just had different sound effects, and of course, they swung at air.  The animations themselves, though, were exactly the same as a standard hit.

At 2:44 you have a normal hit and a miss, performed one after the other. They have different animations. At 1:17 you have a critical hit performed by the same character.

That's 3 different basic attack animations for the same character with the same weapon.

 

 

If you can't see

[rjshae]

A javelin would be a bit of a PITA to implement I think. At this point you have melee weapons and missile weapons, with missile weapons using ammunition. These are both simple as you always have the character holding the weapon. A javelin is a hurled weapon. That's qualitatively different since the weapon leaves the character's possession when it's used, and then lands somewhere where it can presumably be picked up. It's a different type of mechanic which needs more programming and more animating.

 

It'd be cool to have such stuff in, but I'm pretty sure that for the same budget you can add in several different melee or missile weapons, or critters for that matter. I can understand why they'd rather do that.

 

I don't see that a thrown javelin is quantitatively any different than, say, a hurled axe or dagger. Now granted, it's probably not the ideal weapon for a party of adventurers to lug around, but it might be a nice change-up for an enemy attack.

[Stun]

At 2:44 you have a normal hit and a miss, performed one after the other. They have different animations.

No, that's not  different animations,  It's the exact same animation as a hit, only the  full  animation is not playing

Edited January 19, 2013 by Stun

[Valorian]

 

At 2:44 you have a normal hit and a miss, performed one after the other. They have different animations.

No, that's not  different animations,  It's the exact same animation as a hit, only the  full  animation is not playing

Are you serious? Or is this some childish stunT despite all the evidence directly in front of your nose?

 

The miss animation has the sword going in a different direction and the sword stops somewhere behind the character, on the normal hit the sword almost makes a semicircle around the character. These are 2 completely different animations.

 

And I'll finish my sentence from the previous post.

 

If you can't see the difference, there are surely some issues with nerve connections between your eyes and brain. I'd suggest you check it out asap.

[PrimeJunta]

 

A javelin would be a bit of a PITA to implement I think. At this point you have melee weapons and missile weapons, with missile weapons using ammunition. These are both simple as you always have the character holding the weapon. A javelin is a hurled weapon. That's qualitatively different since the weapon leaves the character's possession when it's used, and then lands somewhere where it can presumably be picked up. It's a different type of mechanic which needs more programming and more animating.

 

It'd be cool to have such stuff in, but I'm pretty sure that for the same budget you can add in several different melee or missile weapons, or critters for that matter. I can understand why they'd rather do that.

 

I don't see that a thrown javelin is quantitatively any different than, say, a hurled axe or dagger. Now granted, it's probably not the ideal weapon for a party of adventurers to lug around, but it might be a nice change-up for an enemy attack.

 

Wel-l-ll... an axe or dagger can probably use a generic "throw" animation, same as a grenade, rock, or such. A javelin would look a bit odd if hurled the same way. 

 

That said, do we know if any hurled weapons are in?

[Stun]

 

 

At 2:44 you have a normal hit and a miss, performed one after the other. They have different animations.

No, that's not  different animations,  It's the exact same animation as a hit, only the  full  animation is not playing

Are you serious? Or is this some childish stunT despite all the evidence directly in front of your nose?

 

The miss animation has the sword going in a different direction and the sword stops somewhere behind the character, on the normal hit the sword almost makes a semicircle around the character. These are 2 completely different animations.

 

And I'll finish my sentence from the previous post.

 

If you can't see the difference, there are surely some issues with nerve connections between your eyes and brain. I'd suggest you check it out asap.

Have you actually played Temple of Elemental Evil?  Or are you just watching you tube videos of it?

 

The  standard hit animations in the game  are exactly the same as the miss animations in the game, except the former  hits the target after a full swing animation, while the latter ends 3/4 of the way, hitting air next to the target.

 

Oh and BTW,   While you're busy splitting hairs about  2 vs. 3,  TOEE has  far more significant animation limitations that you've totally ignored.   Similar weapons share Animations.     For instance,  longswords and bastard swords  use the exact same animations.   Greataxes and Greatswords use the exact same animations....etc.  Now, I don't know about you, but that's a much Much bigger  issue in my book.  When I'm using a Greatsword, I expect the animation for it to be different than an Axe

Edited January 19, 2013 by Stun

[Valorian]

Yes, I have played it, but I haven't invented the cure for blindness, yet.

 

 

 

That's another example:

 

Normal hit vs Miss

0:52 vs 1:27

[Stun]

Now you're showing us polearms.   Dishonest, since that weapon type doesn't actually have  a unique critical hit animation in TOEE.  Instead,  it just has 2 different  attack Animations, regardless of whether  it hits, misses, or crits.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Stun

[Valorian]

Critical hit for the polearm at 4:41:

 

 

That's the 3rd attack animation; that makes it 3 attack animations like for other weapons which you refused to see/acknowledge.

 

You play too much Dragon Age, Stun, it blurred your vision.

Please, don't edit your post now.

[Hormalakh]

Interesting videos....

Edited January 20, 2013 by Hormalakh

[Valorian]

Interesting videos....

Indeed.

ToEE did a great job with animations and character models. It's those details.. like for example how their stances change when combat begins.

 

 

"For instance,  longswords and bastard swords  use the exact same animations."

 

Oh dear.

 

Would people be more upset if they found out that their weapon of choice shares the same attack animations with a longsword or bastard sword... or would they be more upset if their weapon of choice has a single, one and only, attack animation, but! different from a bastard sword, which happens to be the weapon of choice of... John in Australia?

[Malekith]

 

Interesting videos....

Indeed.

ToEE did a great job with animations and character models. It's those details.. like for example how their stances change when combat begins.

 

 

"For instance,  longswords and bastard swords  use the exact same animations."

 

Oh dear.

 

Would people be more upset if they found out that their weapon of choice shares the same attack animations with a longsword or bastard sword... or would they be more upset if their weapon of choice has a single, one and only, attack animation, but! different from a bastard sword, which happens to be the weapon of choice of... John in Australia?

This could work on budget. Make 3 attack animations per weapon, but let all swords have the same animations. Same with hammers and morningstars or flails. This overlap is no big thing, and you save money for death animations as well

[sesobebo]

regarding the portraits: could they be animated?

 

[Falkon Swiftblade]

Sesobebo, That's my question, and this is a prime example of how it could be done with minimal work. 

[rjshae]

If that's the example, then I'd rather they didn't.

[Falkon Swiftblade]

Rjshae, they can do it in 3d, and just save the animation as a gif file, it would be very small, easy to swap out a few expressions. I'd prefer more of an idle animation, or use something like this  

[rjshae]

I'm sure they could do some sort of twitchy 3D animation for portraits. But would it have any benefit? I'm not sure I see the point.

[Falkon Swiftblade]

that's precisely my feeling too. I thought the portraits in the old games didn't do anything for me, especially since they were not dressed the same. I really enjoyed the banter in the party though. I just was hoping for a portrait that was more representative of my heros.

[PrimeJunta]

They've said hand-painted portraits, so presumably no animation. Think it would be a bit of a waste of time IMO. Hand-painted is good.

 

There might be an option to import your own though so if they support animated GIF or animated PNG you could always roll your own.