How do you make isometric games more interesting?

[Hormalakh]

The fallout version (implement such a thing for important NPCs) would be more than "fun-sized." THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!!!

 

:dancing: :dancing:

[wanderon]

What would seem to be a simple solution to needing a way to "unlock" maps to remove all black might be to simply design the maps in such a way that every bit of black can be uncovered simply by exploring it completely - I can't think of more than a map or two in BG1 that didn't work this way and IWD 1 & 2 also for the most part.

 

 

(I swear I was just trying to mention the altitude-affected-blackness bit!)

 

I understand what you are saying about the cliffs and such and how that can leave some black but in the IE games I was almost always able to find a way to get close enough to it from one direction or another to remove it from almost every map - perhaps becuase I like doing that sort of thing (walking around the mountain looking a for path that will clear a few square yards of black) even if it's pretty much a waste of time game wise -

 

In any event my point is it just seems simpler to me to make enough pathways/walkable areas in every map so that leaving areas of black doesn't occur than developing some sort of "fix" to remove them.

[Lephys]

I understand what you are saying about the cliffs and such and how that can leave some black but in the IE games I was almost always able to find a way to get close enough to it from one direction or another to remove it from almost every map - perhaps becuase I like doing that sort of thing (walking around the mountain looking a for path that will clear a few square yards of black) even if it's pretty much a waste of time game wise -

 

In any event my point is it just seems simpler to me to make enough pathways/walkable areas in every map so that leaving areas of black doesn't occur than developing some sort of "fix" to remove them.

 

I get the enjoyment of clearing all the black on your own. I like to do that, too, in games in such games. I wasn't meaning to say from a position of laziness that you should simply be able to clear the map faster via cliffs. Some form of sight-range extension (whether it's active and only works at higher altitudes or what) would be pretty cool, though, in various applications. Perhaps in certain parts of the story, you see what's happening down in a valley ahead of you before you make your way to the burning, besieged camp.

 

It's just something that really is only pertinent to the manner in which altitudes and diagonal distances are visually represented in isometric games. In a 3D game, you'd just stand at the edge of the cliff, and you can either see that far or you can't.

[Shattered_One]

the way I would do them would be inside shops and have the npc work while he talks, or walk with you along a path in a city for example. Or stand and talk while you can run around and interact with objects. I also agree with the one liners having floating text. I never minded the mini cut scenes like in BG1 when the wizards apear and attack your uncle but sometimes it was a pain when you had 4 choices with multiple levels and the dialog tree got a lil tedious. I hope at the least they improve body language so if you respond angry it shows it, or maybe the character breaks a pot or something.

 

THIS! This idea reminds me alot of the Breath of Fire series (tho most of those types of things like "hitting a pot" were executed in a cut scene format) I really liked many of the dialogues and found them to be more memorable due to this!

[Sacred_Path]

This is probably not going to happen because of the extremely high amount of artwork it would take, but I really liked Fallout1/2 use of close-ups of important NPCs that you could talk to (Gizmo, Harold, Sulik, Marcus, Tandi, etc). I thought it was a nice touch especially since they also had voice acting. It was a nice change of pace and being able to see the visual profile of some characters can raelly add a lot to the experience.

 

This. Hell, I'd even take static portraits (Ultima).

[Gumbercules]

Regarding line of sight and black areas, I would like for the game to have the black areas, but for their removal to be based on something closer to real-life sight. So for example, rooms you haven't explored yet are first completely black, but as soon as you enter them the entire room is revealed, unless there is something specifically blocking part of the room from view. For outdoor areas, black areas can be revealed through a standard IE-style radius, but make the radius much larger.

[AGX-17]

There's plenty the developers can do if they want to complicate it a little more:

• Direct transition from outdoors to indoors (rather than running through a load screen), as per DD.
  
• Dynamical acoustical effects from terrain.
  
• Provide animation for all water features: waves, waterfalls, rapids, drifting leaves, fish, &c.
  
• More sophisticated day-night transition and weather effects.
  
• Animated structures: waterwheels, windmills, draw bridges, wagons, window shutters that shut at night, &c.
  

 

Aesthetic improvements don't equate to making something more interesting. You can have an amazingly well-designed cover for a dry and mind-numbing textbook, that cover won't make it more interesting.

[ogrezilla]

is there any reason simple location triggers couldn't be used to reveal unreachable "black" covering the map? You step here and this part of the map is revealed.

Edited December 23, 2012 by ogrezilla

[Hormalakh]

I remember having a link to ideas about uncovering fog of war. I'll repost it here: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/61425-let-us-see-the-whole-area-please/

 

Many ideas were talked about here, so in case the devs do look at this thread and do want to change FoW and how it's implemented, this would be a good place to start

[JFSOCC]

Polish(the thing that makes it shine, not a nationality), mostly. I think If I enter a building after a big fight (like in icewind dale's start when you need to clear the town of goblins) I wouldn't mind seeing a scripted event where some strong dude is picking up a corpse, moves to the corner and dumps the corpse on a pile of already waiting corpses.

that kind of thing shows the player that the world is alive, and that things happen without the player. I don't want to see NPC's standing around forever without doing anything ever.

 

Some scripted events that take place whether or not the player is paying attention, and which don't take away control from the player to force the player to see it, those make a world more alive.

[AGX-17]

Polish(the thing that makes it shine, not a nationality), mostly. I think If I enter a building after a big fight (like in icewind dale's start when you need to clear the town of goblins) I wouldn't mind seeing a scripted event where some strong dude is picking up a corpse, moves to the corner and dumps the corpse on a pile of already waiting corpses.

that kind of thing shows the player that the world is alive, and that things happen without the player. I don't want to see NPC's standing around forever without doing anything ever.

 

Some scripted events that take place whether or not the player is paying attention, and which don't take away control from the player to force the player to see it, those make a world more alive.

 

One possible player character background should be "village corpse-stacker."

[TMTVL]

"Hey Bob, do I throw the half orc on the pile of humans, or the pile of orcs?"

 

"Just make a new pile for half orcs, Jim."