Running

[Osvir]

Alundra has, in my opinion, one of the best running mechanics (it is just so difficult to master though!).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AisGdMqiqi4

 

At around 0:30.

 

Running could be way more dynamic, out of combat, you are running from that boulder chasing you, or just running due to low health (with mortality mode on) or just running because running. Like "Drifting" in a car racing game, rounding those corners like a boss. Dynamic running animations.

 

What say you? Good? Or as ominous as the music in the Alundra video? Not talking about a skill based running, but if you are running you'd "slide" towards the end of the location you've pressed.

 

I'd like 2 different ones, Running (for out of combat) and Charging (for in combat). Mostly because in that way you can do more with it depending on situation.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Osvir

[PsychoBlonde]

Yeah, and you can totally control six people with that degree of precision! At once!

 

No.

[jivex5k]

Yeah, as snide as she was about PB is still right.

It would be impossible to do this kind of movement with a party.

Seems more fitting for Zelda type RPGs anyways.

[Lephys]

Synchronized running. It could be well-choreographed. Problem solved. Sport created, u_u

[Osvir]

Yeah, and you can totally control six people with that degree of precision! At once!

 

No.

 

I agree, apparent issue. Even with Pause it is a lot to manage, that's why I advocate for Running being tactical in certain situations, and not for "auto-run". Is there a chance Running could be depleting Stamina but walking does not? Or is Running only a part of Charging (in combat)? I'm ambivalent but I thought it interesting to discuss. Good post PB, right on point

[Archmage Silver]

I'm all in for just one regular movement speed, specifically like the one in BG II, not the original BG, because that was really slow. Then add different values for Hasted & Encumbered movement speeds and you're done.

[General Balls]

I would've assumed your movement speed would be a base number affected by your race, class, and stats. I could see a charge-like ability working for warriors, where they could get a movement speed bonus for running towards enemies, but other than that, I'm not sure how a sprinting option would work in this style of game.

 

You could have different movement speeds for in and out of combat.

[Lephys]

^ A sprinting/charging system would probably have to be tied to some sort of stamina system, which would have to impact other things as well. But, at the very least, sprinting or charging could provide the benefits of closing distance on a ranged foe much more quickly, maybe increasing the effects of the attack or action due to momentum (tackling, severing limbs or disarming [no pun intended, but pun appreciated], etc.). There would have to be some detriment, though, like I said. It could totally work, though.

[PsychoBlonde]

I would've assumed your movement speed would be a base number affected by your race, class, and stats. I could see a charge-like ability working for warriors, where they could get a movement speed bonus for running towards enemies, but other than that, I'm not sure how a sprinting option would work in this style of game.

 

I'd like it if all the non-caster types have special movement abilities. Maybe give monks (for example) a Jump style ability that lets them go from one point directly to another point, so they don't have to go around to the ramp in order to get from the higher area to the lower area. Stuff like this could be REALLY useful but it wouldn't be an enormous headache to manage with six people. Give Fighter types a "charge". Maybe casters can teleport or Tree Stride or whatever.

[Osvir]

Sweet! I really like the Monk "Jump"/"Leap".

 

Would Wizards be able to harness their powers so much that at a point in the game they'll begin to float? (or as an activated duration spell) That should up their movement speed. Regarding "Floating" (seen it somewhere in some other post), it'd be tactical for dungeon crawling as well (avoiding some traps/pitfalls).

 

Off-Topic: What happens if 1 of my party members fall down a pitfall whilst the 5 other party members did not. Will the 6th party member be on a different map? Will I be able to throw down a rope? Will I have to try and gather the group separately at some "yet unknown" rendevouz point? Will I be forced to jump down with all of my party members through the pitfall or will I have a choice? Has this been discussed before? (basically "Party getting separated/split up in a cave-in")

Edited December 6, 2012 by Osvir

[SGray]

I'd like it if all the non-caster types have special movement abilities. Maybe give monks (for example) a Jump style ability that lets them go from one point directly to another point, so they don't have to go around to the ramp in order to get from the higher area to the lower area.

Such thing could work in 3D environments or for teleport. In 2D (well 2.5D) it would take much effort to not to allow jumps through solid objects (roofs, tents, etc.) Even just implementing forbiddance to jump through dungeon ceiling to near corridor would take some work through all the game locations. (In Diablo 2 it was done by primitivising the lanscape and architecture, and trimming every possible obstacle. And it still resulted in awkward moments.) Semi-solutoin for this concern could be implementation of "jumpable" objects, but that's another (and not so small) task for lvl designers to place enough such objects everywhere, so skill wont be useless and the game won't became Mario simulation.

[Felithvian]

Yeah, and you can totally control six people with that degree of precision! At once!

 

No.

 

You clearly have no friggin clue. Ever heard about Xcom Apocalypse?

 

Apocalypse features an isometric combat mode which gave you the choice of playing the tactical missions in either the familiar turn-based mode or real-time (Everything happens simultaneously, though the game can be paused at any time to issue orders to agents.)

 

You can change their movement by selecting the appropriate icon (Walk/Run). Agents consume stamina when running, and running out of it will force the agent to walk until they recover.

 

It is much more complex than any Black Isle/Obsidian title, for you not only control 6 characters, you'll eventually manage nothing more than 36! (6 soldiers per squad). Plus add the relationship between health and armor damage, penetrating damage vs armor damage, health damage and fatal wounds, effects of armour, terrain and object armour, damage modifiers, random damage ranges, the impacting damage component, effects of damage, firing accuarcy, stamina, terrain modifiers, agent stats, formations, etc...

 

Project Eternity won't even have the slightest depth and complexity of Xcom.

 

A walk/run script could easily be done, but as Lephys said, it should be tied to somekind of stamina system.

[General Balls]

I'd like it if all the non-caster types have special movement abilities. Maybe give monks (for example) a Jump style ability that lets them go from one point directly to another point, so they don't have to go around to the ramp in order to get from the higher area to the lower area. Stuff like this could be REALLY useful but it wouldn't be an enormous headache to manage with six people. Give Fighter types a "charge". Maybe casters can teleport or Tree Stride or whatever.

 

I agree. The best way to make battlefields more interesting, in my opinion, is to add movement options. Ways for players (and enemies) to traverse obstacles and interesting terrain that can't be accomplished by others. Allowing options like this promotes healthy difficulty as well, because you don't have to give ridiculous health values to an enemy to make them harder, and you can make your characters relatively squishy as well, because they have alternate ways to avoid damage (the latter is just my preference ).

[Hormalakh]

I like the XCOM idea. Running just makes things better. Arcanum had run toggles but if it's a menu toggle, it'll always be on anyway. Besides, I'm going to find the boots of haste before anything else just so I don't have to wait for 15 mins everytime my party wants to cross the map.

 

What do you mean there aren't any boots of haste in P:E?!?!

[Lephys]

I like the XCOM idea. Running just makes things better. Arcanum had run toggles but if it's a menu toggle, it'll always be on anyway. Besides, I'm going to find the boots of haste before anything else just so I don't have to wait for 15 mins everytime my party wants to cross the map.

 

What do you mean there aren't any boots of haste in P:E?!?!

 

Whoa whoa whoa... I know you want to equip those boots, but let's not get hasty...

[AGX-17]

That is in no way applicable to an isometric mouse and keyboard rtw/p RPG. Besides, take away the turning and isn't it identical to dashing in 2d overhead (no running in Adventure of Link,) Zelda games?

 

Whether or not you're running, or engaging in any other speed or type of movement, is contextual. Watch a samurai movie and you'll see a long, tense standoff between two dueling ronin where they stand still as statues, or circle around slowly, before both go for an all-or-nothing single strike. On the other hand, a charging army on a battlefield will typically (be) stop(ped) charging once it meets its opposing force and the melee begins. From there, they might slowly push forward, stay put, unable to make headway, or be pushed back by the enemy. One side might break and run, or be flanked by another army or a force of cavalry. There's more to motion in combat than simple sprinting.

 

I think running should be present, but contextual, and a guy in steel plate or someone carrying a backpack full of loot is going to be slower and run out of stam-err... steam? a lot faster than a lightly armed and armored rogue or ranger.

Edited December 7, 2012 by AGX-17

[Osvir]

What if it is a "Dash"? Burst speed forward to a location. Then it can be in any direction (like Zelda and friends), if Running/Charging/Dashing is a "ranged" ability. EDIT: Then it could be like you, the player, is telling your character "Run that way" and they'll run for a bit (dice rolls could be included, "slipping on a banana peel" or if their morale is high they could even run faster).

Edited December 7, 2012 by Osvir

[PsychoBlonde]

Such thing could work in 3D environments or for teleport. In 2D (well 2.5D) it would take much effort to not to allow jumps through solid objects (roofs, tents, etc.) Even just implementing forbiddance to jump through dungeon ceiling to near corridor would take some work through all the game locations.

 

Depends on whether they implement it as an integral part of the pathfinding. Due to the party movement requirements they already have much higher requirements for pathfinding than Diablo II did (because if your followers get behind they don't have the option to just TELEPORT to your current location the way followers in DII did), and the code will probably already exist to determine whether it is possible to create a straight-line path between two points. All they would really have to do is have 2 different kinds of blocked out areas--one for "high" areas which cannot be passed over (like solid walls) and one for areas which CAN be passed over. This could even be quite useful, in that it would allow the implementation of different abilities, some of which allow passage through "high" areas and some which do not.

[PsychoBlonde]

You clearly have no friggin clue. Ever heard about Xcom Apocalypse?

 

Apocalypse features an isometric combat mode which gave you the choice of playing the tactical missions in either the familiar turn-based mode or real-time (Everything happens simultaneously, though the game can be paused at any time to issue orders to agents.)

 

Did you WATCH the VIDEO? He wasn't talking about having an optional slightly-faster movement rate for your teammates. He was talking about a game with movement mechanics much more like Prince of Persia or Mario. There is NO POSSIBLE WAY you could directly control each of six characters (or even TWO) at high speed doing those kinds of moves. I should know--I dual-box sometimes to level my housemate's characters in a game with jumping/dodging, although still much simplified compared to the game in the video. I can, just barely, move both characters from one location to another at the same time, and that's only because they have an autorun feature, so I can control one using one keyboard and the other using a mouse without having to hold down the "move forward" button for either of them.

 

You can't use Mario or Prince-of-Persia style mechanics in a party-based single-player game. Can you have a variety of movement abilities? Sure. They can even be great fun. What they can't do is require constant second-by-second activation for each character.

[AGX-17]

What if it is a "Dash"? Burst speed forward to a location. Then it can be in any direction (like Zelda and friends), if Running/Charging/Dashing is a "ranged" ability. EDIT: Then it could be like you, the player, is telling your character "Run that way" and they'll run for a bit (dice rolls could be included, "slipping on a banana peel" or if their morale is high they could even run faster).

 

That's exactly what cannot possibly work or fit in P:E given its perspective, control scheme and multiple characters. You have missed the point, entirely, it seems.

[Osvir]

^No, I understood your point but came up with another idea instead of blindly agreeing with you (that doesn't mean I don't agree with you). Did you understand my idea?

 

I'm speaking about running as an "ability". Similar to a Spell, you click to use it then you click in which direction you want to run "Hey! Run that direction!" or "Charge that enemy!". Still keyboard+mouse controlled. Let me try to explain in words:

 

You click the ability, a ring appears around your character (How far range they've got on running) you click at the edge of the ring and your character runs that way and that far. With pausing you have enough control to do it on all of your characters, what I am trying to do is not "Let's do this!" but more like "Hey is this a solution? Is this a solution? Is this a solution?".

 

Poll to take into consideration as well.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GI8-5CDtdk

 

What's happening in the video? Gragas is the fat man in purple~ throwing what looks like a giant wine bottle. Amumu is the small green guy/mummy guy. The red line and mark on the small guy is Caitlynn's ultimate ability (Shooting a sniper shot). Gragas uses an ability to make him dash and take the damage of the shot (saving Amumu from death).

 

EDIT: In short; Gragas doesn't just dash, he saves a party member because he can dash.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Osvir

[Osvir]

Pause the video to simulate "/with pausing"