Meanwhile in Palestine

[JFSOCC]

 

As for the rest, governments gonna govern. Executing agents of a foreign power in times of war is not illegal- I can provide a list as long as your arm of Western examples, should you wish to push the point- and if it weren't Hamas those levies would be called... taxes, levies and the like, without the quote marks.

 

I agree with most of what you are saying, but Hamas (and others) did kill a bunch (about a thousand, though actual numbers are uncertain) of Palestinians without trial on shaky claims of collaboration during the first intifada. That helped radicalise the region in more than one way.

[Zoraptor]

I was talking specifically about the recent, well publicised, incident, as was Farbautisonn from his description.

 

But no, Hamas certainly ain't any shining light for justice and due process and are pretty typical in that regard for an organisation of their type. It's simply that they are within their rights- as historically with most countries- to execute collaborators/ agents provacateur/ spies in times of war without due process.

[Calax]

As for the rest, governments gonna govern. Executing agents of a foreign power in times of war is not illegal- I can provide a list as long as your arm of Western examples, should you wish to push the point- and if it weren't Hamas those levies would be called... taxes, levies and the like, without the quote marks.

 

I agree with most of what you are saying, but Hamas (and others) did kill a bunch (about a thousand, though actual numbers are uncertain) of Palestinians without trial on shaky claims of collaboration during the first intifada. That helped radicalise the region in more than one way.

... And? Israel isn't doing any better with random rocket strikes into the Strip (killed a BBC guys kid didn't it?) You can't just say "Hamas/Palestine are the devil for killing random people in rocket strikes and made up charges" without also turning around and saying the same about Israel. And Israel has probably been indirectly at fault for the deaths of MANY more Muslims in the occupied territories than Hamas or anyone else ever would.

[JFSOCC]

As for the rest, governments gonna govern. Executing agents of a foreign power in times of war is not illegal- I can provide a list as long as your arm of Western examples, should you wish to push the point- and if it weren't Hamas those levies would be called... taxes, levies and the like, without the quote marks.

 

I agree with most of what you are saying, but Hamas (and others) did kill a bunch (about a thousand, though actual numbers are uncertain) of Palestinians without trial on shaky claims of collaboration during the first intifada. That helped radicalise the region in more than one way.

... And? Israel isn't doing any better with random rocket strikes into the Strip (killed a BBC guys kid didn't it?) You can't just say "Hamas/Palestine are the devil for killing random people in rocket strikes and made up charges" without also turning around and saying the same about Israel. And Israel has probably been indirectly at fault for the deaths of MANY more Muslims in the occupied territories than Hamas or anyone else ever would.

I am saying the same about Israel.

[Volourn]

"And Israel has probably been indirectly at fault for the deaths of MANY more Muslims in the occupied territories than Hamas or anyone else ever would."

 

No. Muslims have killed more muslims than any other religion ever has.

[TrashMan]

I find it funny that every few years Israel marches into Palestine and burns the infrastructure to the ground.

 

Of course, they always do it to "get the terrorists that just happen to be hiding in all those vital buldings"

 

Knocking your neighbour down to stone age to keep them down from becoming a stronger and more advanced country maybe? Yeah, I'm willing to bet on that front.

[alanschu]

Obesity is a condition that correlates strongly with poverty

 

[Gorth]

Im not claiming that Israel is flawless or do not do critizisable stuff. But I just find it odd that its seemlingly only Gaza that has "issues".

 

Maybe it's because the Gaza strip has effectively been turned into an internment camp (I'll be nice and not call it a KZ camp)? When you keep a group of people prisoner, isolate them, demolish infrastructure, block access to trade of goods (and ideas), you create a breeding ground of resentment and radicalism (what was the name of that movie where New York had been turned into a big prison island???). The west bank has it slightly easier, because they can still access supplies and get in touch with the outside world through Jordan. Root of the problem is the Apartheid policy that dictates that non-ethnic jews are not allowed to make up more than a certain percentage of the population in the state of Israel, so all those people kicked off their land has nowhere to go but the refugee camps and twiddle their thumbs (or build bombs, preach hatred, whatever).

[Volourn]

The root of the problem is much deeper, more complex, and more long term than that.

 

Besdies, as I said above, nobody treats muslims worse than other muslims.

 

More proof: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/25/pakistan-bomb-ashura_n_2188019.html?icid=maing-grid7|aim|dl1|sec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D237904

 

The Isreal-Palestine problem isn't really about land. It's about bigotry from both sides. Anyone who thinks that Palestine woudl treat isreal better if positions were reversed are delusional. And, I have hard time feeling sorry for crocodile tears when people point out how weak or ineffectual Hamas/Palestine is when they cosntanyl lob missles into Isreal AND make a habit of murdering Palestinians. not to mention, all the whining by other Muslim/Arab ME coutnries when thsoe same countries treat Palestinians as bad if not worse than Isreal does.

 

Isreal does a lot of crappy **** but that is not why they're considered the enemy. Plus, as much as people make a big of Isreal being a 'fake' country (which doesn't even make sense), Palestine is no more 'real'. Palestine and Palestinians are relatively modern concept themselves.The land the Palestinians and their cheerleaders claim is thirs was not originally theirs either.

 

Still, the violence won't stop out both sides feel murdering one another won't accomplish their goals. They don't seem to get that. Thankfully, I live in NA, where we are above such stupidity.

[Calax]

Obesity is a condition that correlates strongly with poverty

 

 

Anymore I'm fairly certain that it's because there are many cheap, fatty, alternatives to food out right now. Mcdoalds, burger king, wendy's etc. So rather than eat something healthy, they go out and pick up garbage and eat it.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Obesity is a condition that correlates strongly with poverty

 

 

Typically lower income households only have access to highly processed foods that are very unhealthy. The region in the United States commonly referred to as "The South" is a very good example.

 

Edit: Ninja'd by Calax

 

EDIT2: Am I the only who thinks of this when I see the thread title?

Edited November 26, 2012 by KaineParker

[Zoraptor]

Obesity is a condition that correlates strongly with poverty

As above, it's true for "little p" poverty where actual food supply is not a problem, but food quality is. Gaza has a bit of a perfect storm in that it gets (cheap, low quality) food aid, it's very densely populated and since those areas there which aren't densely populated are also areas you tend to get shot at if you go then there's little opportunity for exercise.

 

Genuine, "capital P" Poverty where there is difficulty even getting the bare necessities of life is not correlated with obesity though, of course.

[Volourn]

Fast food doesn't make you fat. If it did, I'd be a million lbs. Laziness makes you fat. Or actual body/health issues.

[Gorth]

Junk food. Latest tool in the genocide arsenal

 

Peace? Fat chance.

[Calax]

Nothing will flat out make you fat. But if you're working a low income job, with little movement but long hours, and you eat McDonalds or KFC or Wendy's or Burger King every meal of the day, you're gonna see your waistline expand quickly.

 

Hell, we've done the calculations at work... a SINGLE Angus Bacon and Cheese meal with Large Fries and a Large Drink will fill out your daily requirement of calories for a fairly inactive lifestyle. ONE MEAL. And there are people who get that stuff 3 times a day.

[obyknven]

Fast food doesn't make you fat. If it did, I'd be a million lbs. Laziness makes you fat. Or actual body/health issues.

I'll better die of hunger than eat this food

http://englishrussia...lds-restaurant/

[TrashMan]

Plus, as much as people make a big of Isreal being a 'fake' country (which doesn't even make sense), Palestine is no more 'real'. Palestine and Palestinians are relatively modern concept themselves.The land the Palestinians and their cheerleaders claim is thirs was not originally theirs either.

 

When you live for generations in the land with your own culture and laws - that land is yours. Regardless if the UN or some other countries give you their stamp of approval.

 

Israel had no buisness being established as it was. It was just asking for trouble and trouble came.

The fraktard "world leaders" wouldn't give the jews a piece of their own country, now would they?

[Calax]

Fast food doesn't make you fat. If it did, I'd be a million lbs. Laziness makes you fat. Or actual body/health issues.

I'll better die of hunger than eat this food

http://englishrussia...lds-restaurant/

Because all mcdonalds have russian hooligans employed there... Yup... totally.

[obyknven]

Fast food doesn't make you fat. If it did, I'd be a million lbs. Laziness makes you fat. Or actual body/health issues.

I'll better die of hunger than eat this food

http://englishrussia...lds-restaurant/

Because all mcdonalds have russian hooligans employed there... Yup... totally.

Because "Fast food" for poor peoples. Rich (Exploitators) don't eat this trash.

[alanschu]

Anymore I'm fairly certain that it's because there are many cheap, fatty, alternatives to food out right now. Mcdoalds, burger king, wendy's etc. So rather than eat something healthy, they go out and pick up garbage and eat it.

 

Ah yes, western poverty.

 

I was thinking of people that were actually unable to actually meet their basic needs.

[BruceVC]

Nothing will flat out make you fat. But if you're working a low income job, with little movement but long hours, and you eat McDonalds or KFC or Wendy's or Burger King every meal of the day, you're gonna see your waistline expand quickly.

 

Hell, we've done the calculations at work... a SINGLE Angus Bacon and Cheese meal with Large Fries and a Large Drink will fill out your daily requirement of calories for a fairly inactive lifestyle. ONE MEAL. And there are people who get that stuff 3 times a day.

Nothing will flat out make you fat. But if you're working a low income job, with little movement but long hours, and you eat McDonalds or KFC or Wendy's or Burger King every meal of the day, you're gonna see your waistline expand quickly.

 

Hell, we've done the calculations at work... a SINGLE Angus Bacon and Cheese meal with Large Fries and a Large Drink will fill out your daily requirement of calories for a fairly inactive lifestyle. ONE MEAL. And there are people who get that stuff 3 times a day.

What always amazes me on my trips to the USA is the size of the take-away portions, they are generally massive compared to what you get in South Africa. I think this is another issue with the obesity issue in the USA

[Calax]

Fast food doesn't make you fat. If it did, I'd be a million lbs. Laziness makes you fat. Or actual body/health issues.

I'll better die of hunger than eat this food

http://englishrussia...lds-restaurant/

Because all mcdonalds have russian hooligans employed there... Yup... totally.

Because "Fast food" for poor peoples. Rich (Exploitators) don't eat this trash.

? I'm not saying that the Rich don't eat there. Just that they don't eat there all the time. Which was entirely my point, fast food is so cheap and easy to get, most of the lowest income earners will end up hitting that place rather than cooking things themselves. Because they don't have the time, energy, or knowledge necessary to construct even the most basic healthy meal at home. As Alan pointed out, this is a rather western issue, so I'm pretty sure the "getting so drunk I die" Russian male demographic doesn't have to worry about it.

 

Although how your response relates to what I said I have no idea.

 

And Bruce: That's exactly why NYC outlawed any drink over 16 fluid ounces (a "small" at Mcdonalds).

 

Admittedly we're pretty far off rocket strikes on Gaza. I do get the feeling that within a generation the Israeli's are gonna have to shape up because they can't rely on the pity and sympathy of their allies to get away with things.

[obyknven]

As Alan pointed out, this is a rather western issue, so I'm pretty sure the "getting so drunk I die" Russian male demographic doesn't have to worry about it.

Slowpoke German propaganda from WW1 times again. Westlings even can't invent new lie.

In the early 20th century, the consumption of pure alcohol per capita in Russia was only 2-3 liters a year. In 1910, the level of alcohol consumption among the countries of Europe, Russia ranked only 9th place. And with the first World War, when the sale of alcohol was stopped, its consumption has fallen yet again in 10-15, 0.2 liters per capita per year.

In the so-called "Drunk" Russia, just 100 years ago 95% of children under 18 years, 90% women, 43% of men were sober, that is, in general, have never tried alcohol. And then talk about genetic commitment of the Slavs to alcohol.

Germany - 7.47 liter per capita, Russia - 3.41 liter per capita (1906-1910) . Westlings lied then and now. Westlings always lie.

[Calax]

...

A study by Russian, British and French researchers published in The Lancet scrutinized deaths between 1990 and 2001 of residents of three Siberian industrial towns with typical mortality rates and determined that 52% of deaths of people between the ages of 15 and 54 were the result of alcohol abuse.^[10] Lead researcher Professor David Zaridze estimated that the increase in alcohol consumption since 1987 has caused an additional three million deaths nationwide.^[10] In 2007, Gennadi Onishenko, the country's chief public health official, voiced his concern over the nearly threefold rise in alcohol consumption over the past 16 years; one in eight deaths was attributed to alcohol-related diseases, playing a major role in Russia's population decline.^[8] Men are particularly hard hit; according to a U.N. National Human Development Report, Russian males born in 2006 had a life expectancy of just over 60 years, 17 fewer than western Europeans, while Russian females could expect to live thirteen years longer than their male counterparts.^[11] In June 2009, the Public Chamber of Russia reported over 500,000 alcohol-related deaths annually, noting that Russians consume about 18 litres (4.0 imp gal; 4.8 US gal) of spirits a year, more than double the 8 litres (1.8 imp gal; 2.1 US gal) World Health Organization experts consider dangerous.^[12]

 

Have Fun.

 

And so this thread might actually be on track again

 

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/26/world/meast/israel-barak-resigns/index.html?hpt=wo_c2

 

The defense minister of Israel has resigned... supposedly to open up a new party to oppose the one currently in power.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Calax

[BruceVC]

[

When you live for generations in the land with your own culture and laws - that land is yours. Regardless if the UN or some other countries give you their stamp of approval.

 

Israel had no buisness being established as it was. It was just asking for trouble and trouble came.

The fraktard "world leaders" wouldn't give the jews a piece of their own country, now would they?

 

I'm confused, aren't Jews originally from a tribe that lived in that land from thousands of years ago? What makes the Palestinians claim to the area more valid than the Jews?