Randomization and Replayability

[Sacred_Path]

So illogical maps and extremely generic corridors with some hardcoded points of interest are OK? See, that's why I think some people got PE wrong. What you want is Diablo. What I want is perfect had-crafted world, that makes sense and is logically connected. You can't really do that with randomization, unless it's only the way Grim Dawn uses, i.e. barricades within pre-built world.

 

Not that I mentioned random maps, but I'll go with it.

 

As far as dungeons go, there's not much logic in them in most games. Wether you encounter the same monsters in the same rooms over and over or different monsters in different rooms shouldn't make much of a difference there. Except the latter is probably more interesting/ definitely has an element of surprise that you don't have in a replay w/o randomization.

[Hassat Hunter]

Randomnising monster groups and the area only makes sense if combat is pre-dominant, so seeing the same gets stale. See: Diablo.

 

However, since PE isn't like that, there wont be an added value here, since the dungeons and maps and groups aren't as important, often or meaningful as an aRPG. Enemy placement is key. And that's a lot harder to do with randomisation. So they better cannot bother and make the one encounter that is there great.

[Sacred_Path]

Randomnising monster groups and the area only makes sense if combat is pre-dominant, so seeing the same gets stale. See: Diablo.

 

However, since PE isn't like that, there wont be an added value here, since the dungeons and maps and groups aren't as important, often or meaningful as an aRPG. Enemy placement is key. And that's a lot harder to do with randomisation. So they better cannot bother and make the one encounter that is there great.

 

I hope a certain element of randomization will be in there as far as encounters go. Not so much dungeon maps, I agree that this team can do better if they hand-craft the environments. What I don't want is knowing exactly what enemies await me (without scouting), so I can make a plan beforehand exactly how to take them all out. Say I know there's a group of casters with their guards waiting for me. I have an idea what their spell assortment looks like and what their preferred spells are. I know the strengths and weaknesses of their guards. Now if some of their ogre guards are replaced with archers that go after my wizards, and I couldn't factor that in beforehand, that makes the encounter not only more challenging but also more fun for me and increases immersion.

[Sabotin]

If I understood correctly, that should be achievable by turning up the difficulty (or that extra hard mode or what it is).

 

As far as randomness goes, I'd prefer if it was severely limited. A little on loot (items of lesser value) and a little on encounters (the open ended types, if any) maybe, just so things aren't 100% the same.

The role of randomness in repeat playthroughs is in my opinion only there to keep the exploration factor, but that most likely wouldn't apply to a game like PE (please no Modron Cubes...).

[Lephys]

If I understood correctly, that should be achievable by turning up the difficulty (or that extra hard mode or what it is).

 

Well, hard mode has a precedent of adding extra enemies to encounters, and/or beefing them up. I think what Sacred_Path means is, for the sake of dynamics and replayability, it might be prudent to actually alter the specific makeup and placement of enemy groups in each playthrough. Not literally randomize it, mind you (i.e. There's a cat here instead of a bandit!), but maybe in one playthrough this room in a cave might have 2 bandits with daggers guarding a certain door in some bandit hideout, whereas, in another playthrough, there might be 2 bandits with crossbows guarding the same door, but standing significantly away from it (because of their weapon range). Just that simple change means that you can't immediately know the best way to approach that door, even if you've already played through the same area/quest/content once before.

 

Obviously, there would be certain places where changing the positioning/composition of enemy forces would be detrimental to the story or quest setup. But, it could be randomized to a degree, and I think changing the locations and specific attributes of combatants throughout areas would be not only easier than changing the environments themselves, but also have more of an impact on the dynamics and replayability of the game.

[Aoyagi]

Not that I mentioned random maps, but I'll go with it.

 

As far as dungeons go, there's not much logic in them in most games. Wether you encounter the same monsters in the same rooms over and over or different monsters in different rooms shouldn't make much of a difference there. Except the latter is probably more interesting/ definitely has an element of surprise that you don't have in a replay w/o randomization.

Well, I don't know about you, but after the first playthrough, I maybe remember the exact composition / locations of some of the toughest (or otherwise memorable) groups. Second playthrough makes me memorize some additional encounters, but I usually stop playing after that and perhaps return to the game after a year and at that point I don't remember too much of it...

If there was to be some sort of randomization, I think (personally, in my opinion, etc. ^^) I wouldn't stand anything more than what Lephys mentioned, e.g. few variations of enemy groups that would have hard-set locations and could be logically replaced with any of its variations. So very minor randomization...

 

And yeah, I thought "well-known dungeon corridor" includes its layout too

[Dream]

I honestly can't say randomization would have made me replay BG or PS:T more.

 

You can't randomize story.

[Hassat Hunter]

You can't randomize story.

You can.

 

It's best to avoid like the plague though...

[ReyVagabond]

Please let it all be hand crafted and unique!

[Lephys]

Please let it all be hand crafted and unique!

 

Unless one or more of the developers happen to be telekinetic, in which case I expect NOTHING LESS than a hands-free-crafted world, u_u

[AGX-17]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No randomly/procedurally-generated dungeons. Those are always bad and never fun. They are always a stupid maze of right angled corridors. It doesn't even make sense unless it's JUST ONE "wacky randomly changing dungeon."

Edited November 29, 2012 by AGX-17