Gorgon Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Don't start watching Law & Order though, it's boring as hell. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all.
BruceVC Posted October 17, 2012 Author Posted October 17, 2012 Waterboarding wasn't condemned, it was reclassified as an "enhanced interrogation technique", officially sanctioned and publicly condoned when it was revealed. And that was for a technique that the US executed japanese soldiers for using in WW2. Thats funny but I have yet to see or find any information that under the Obama presidency 'waterboarding" is acceptable . Please provide the link to substantiate your comment? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Zoraptor Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 I didn't specify under Obama's presidency- as you simply specified "since 9/11". GWB/ **** Cheney's the asterisks are tradition now) types were very big on justifying torture and there is a plethora of information on their exploits. While Obama has been far better in that regard he hasn't actually prosecuted anyone for using torture, so he's ended up- practically- condoning the previous actions. In any case, I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting McKinnon would be waterboarded.
Nonek Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Chatting about it with one of the companys legal team today, apparently the maximum term for computer espionage of this nature in Britain is five years, across the pond he'd be facing three charges each carrying up to twenty year sentences. Wasn't sure if those would run concurrently. You can see why the young man doesn't want to go west, far better to serve a year and a half back here in blighty, if that. Not condoning his actions, but these conspiracy nuts don't really do any harm do they? Still stupid bloody thing to do. Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin. Tea for the teapot!
Hurlshort Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 That's the thing, if he's clearly a conspiracy nut, no jury is going to send him away for 20 years.
BruceVC Posted October 18, 2012 Author Posted October 18, 2012 I didn't specify under Obama's presidency- as you simply specified "since 9/11". GWB/ **** Cheney's the asterisks are tradition now) types were very big on justifying torture and there is a plethora of information on their exploits. While Obama has been far better in that regard he hasn't actually prosecuted anyone for using torture, so he's ended up- practically- condoning the previous actions. In any case, I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting McKinnon would be waterboarded. I hear what you are saying, but the issue is there are many people who do believe that the American legal system is exactly the same as it was under Bush. You honestly hear an aargument for example, that Julian Assange will be ttortured and executed in the USA. Some people are saying the same about Mckinnon. They still justify there objection to extradition based on how a person "wwould be inhumanely treated in the USA" "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Raithe Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 That's the thing, if he's clearly a conspiracy nut, no jury is going to send him away for 20 years. Ah, but he's an English Conspiracy Nut.. You never know how an American jury will react. Too many hollywood movies with Brits as the bad guys.. I have to admit, I've known a few folks from the States who are quite schizophrenic in how they view England... One moment they're treating it all as "charming, traditional, that lovely queen" and the next its all "Rahr! Independance! Freedom! Evil England!" It can be quite bizarre 1 "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."
Malcador Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 The messages he left about US foreign policy might indicate he's not actually a conspiracy nut that much and that's just being played up to make him sympathetic. Wonder if they can sue him for damages though ? Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
BruceVC Posted October 18, 2012 Author Posted October 18, 2012 That's the thing, if he's clearly a conspiracy nut, no jury is going to send him away for 20 years. Ah, but he's an English Conspiracy Nut.. You never know how an American jury will react. Too many hollywood movies with Brits as the bad guys.. I have to admit, I've known a few folks from the States who are quite schizophrenic in how they view England... One moment they're treating it all as "charming, traditional, that lovely queen" and the next its all "Rahr! Independance! Freedom! Evil England!" It can be quite bizarre You make me laugh, good points "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
BruceVC Posted October 18, 2012 Author Posted October 18, 2012 The messages he left about US foreign policy might indicate he's not actually a conspiracy nut that much and that's just being played up to make him sympathetic. Wonder if they can sue him for damages though ? I agree, his defense is positioning him as a harmless and eccentric conspiracy nut. Yet he clearly was driven by more than that and had a vendetta against the USA. So I still feel he needs to face prison time. Which he won't now, at least not in the USA "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Zoraptor Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 You honestly hear an aargument for example, that Julian Assange will be ttortured and executed in the USA. You hear quite a few arguments that he should be tortured and executed from people in the US. There's also the treatment of Manning where the "protective" measures are obviously designed to cause personal discomfit and sleep deprivation rather than be for his benefit. Assange is simply a whole different kettle of fish compared to McKinnon.
Humodour Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 Don't start watching Law & Order though, it's boring as hell. And also a rather poor source of information on one's legal system. O.o
AGX-17 Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) I don't have any particular problem with people who force government transparency. Having to go to the USA is a cruel punishment, in context and out of it. This. There are few circumstance where anybody should have to suffer extradition to the USA. You just can't trust that country to protect someone's human rights. Anyone tried in civil courts in the US was guaranteed the rights of due process, habeas corpus, etc. until the Bush era congress passed the PATRIOT(it's actually an incredibly uncatchy acronym) Act. Race and wealth still have more to do with treatment in courts in the US than anything else (the wealthy and white tend to come out better than the poor and black.) At any rate, I have no problem with anyone who forces government transparency. It still amazes me how complacent the American people are. I'll go out on a very sturdy limb and attribute it to the cultural conditioning of capitalist self-responsibility and individual isolationism ("Pull yourself up by the bootstraps you lazy poor people! What's physics? That wasn't required for my MBA so it has no value! Read some Ayn Rand you parasites!") They, (or should I say we?) just let the plutocracy grind their faces into the dirt. It can't be stressed enough that big business and government are two sides of the same coin. In Capitalism, power flows to wealth. But remember, all the foreigners denigrating the US, that is exactly the same in all of your countries as well. When the USA is no longer the one great super power, all of you who aspire to see your countries fill that role, you're going to be in the exact same situation as the USA today, eventually (which is not far off from the Gilded Age satirized by Mark Twain. And if you denigrate Mark Twain you're just ignorant.) Edited October 23, 2012 by AGX-17
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