DRM-Free Option -- Why not just make all Steam copies DRM free?

[vv221]

Steam tops at 150 megs on my computers at idle. I have never, ever, seen it go past 250, except when verifying file integrity or doing its own form of defragging.

It may be nothing for your 16Gb-computer, it's clearly huge for my 512Mb-one !

[JOG]

For me the, most annoying thing about Steam is that I want a quite secure password for any plattform I spend money in, and although I usually run Steam in offline mode, every once in a while I need to go online and realize that my password is so secure, that even I can't figure it out.

 

I tend to avoid Steam, but if a game really needs Online registration / DRM, Steam is the way to go, I won't install clients for any other DRM plattform.

 

I don't get the point of achievements either, they're either pretty pointless stuff that will be achieved automatically if one actually bothers to play the game, or they go deeper and record decisions you made duing game play, that may or may not reflect your real life disposition.

Edited October 20, 2012 by JOG

[Infinitron]

Epic failure of reading comprehension in this thread:

 

LIST OF DRM-FREE GAMES ON STEAM: http://www.gog.com/en/forum/general/list_of_drmfree_games_on_steam/page1

Edited October 20, 2012 by Infinitron

[vv221]

@ Infinitron : You still need the Steam client running to install them. That's not what I'd call DRM-free!

[Infinitron]

@ Infinitron : You still need the Steam client running to install them. That's not what I'd call DRM-free!

 

But installing a game isn't playing it. It's just a one-time technical procedure.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Infinitron

[D3xter]

Steam isn't inherent "DRM" as some people have said, it can also be used as a Download-Client similar to the GoG Website, where you have to Login too. But only few games don't require Steam to run while playing them, for instance I believe Rayman: Origins and Bastion etc.

 

That said, I believe Obsidian has already declared their intent to using SteamWorks-specific features like "Achievements" and "Cloud Saves", there is no way to integrate those into the game and have the Steam-version be "DRM free", so no.

Edited October 20, 2012 by D3xter

[AwesomeOcelot]

@ Infinitron : You still need the Steam client running to install them. That's not what I'd call DRM-free!

 

That's a service, not digital rights management. GOG makes you login to download, GOG wraps their own installer around the games, GOG even has a download manager, none of that makes it any less DRM-free. It is DRM though, not because of the client but because you need to be logged into the client to install. It's still a login/register once (or everytime you install) DRM system. Steam checks you own a game before you can download like GOG, but also before you install, unlike GOG, that makes it DRM. Also GOG has an open platform, anyone could make a client for GOG, and Steam is a closed platform, only Valve's software works.

Edited October 20, 2012 by AwesomeOcelot

[JOG]

But installing a game isn't playing it. It's just a one-time technical procedure.

 

It's still Digital Rights Management. If you buy a new computer you need to install Steam to be able to prove that you are allowed to install the game, the DRM-free GOG version can be installed simply by running the EXE from your backup DVD, even if it isn't you but your grandchild who inherited your collection of ancient computer games

 

What's the problem anyway? If Obsidian really wanted a strict DRM scheme, they wouldn't support GOG, so the Steam version will most likely be as DRM-free as a Steam program can be, the rest is semantics, apparently Obsidian are aware that some people consider Steam in any form as a kind of DRM, and offer an alternative.

Edited October 20, 2012 by JOG

[Infinitron]

But installing a game isn't playing it. It's just a one-time technical procedure.

 

It's still Digital Rights Management. If you buy a new computer you need to install Steam to be able to prove that you are allowed to install the game, the DRM-free GOG version can be installed simply by running the EXE from your backup DVD, even if it isn't you but your grandchild who inherited your collection of ancient computer games

 

What's the problem anyway? If Obsidian really wanted a strict DRM scheme, they wouldn't support GOG, so the Steam version will most likely be as DRM-free as a stream program can be, the rest is semantics, apparently Obsidian accept that some people consider Steam in any form as a kind of DRM, and offer an alternative.

 

I don't have a problem. It's just that a bunch of people here misunderstood OP.

 

You can also backup the folder where Steam installed your game and put it anywhere you want.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Infinitron

[underageaoler]

LIST OF DRM-FREE GAMES ON STEAM: http://www.gog.com/en/forum/general/list_of_drmfree_games_on_steam/page1

 

Thank you very much for posting that. It emphasizes the point the original poster was trying to make quite well, I think.

[Hassat Hunter]

Except for that it's a pretty small list among Steam-games.

 

And asking it to be the case for PE makes using Steam rather pointless. And lose sales on the odd people that buy game for achievements and such...

[Zoraptor]

It's just that a bunch of people here misunderstood OP.

Nope, he's wrong, you're wrong. You have for example successfully 'proved' that SecROM's launch control ain't DRM- it's a "one time technical procedure" as well- and your evidence for your position is a forum thread with zero technical information, just a random joe writing a list of stuff you agree with. You do not need a client to install a game, it is not an inherent part of installation, it's extraneous and designed to check your permissions. And again, under the situation outlined by the OP any additional content or patching would absolutely require steam since there would not be a genuinely drm free alternative.

 

You'd also have a lot of fun trying to transfer such 'drm free' programs seamlessly across computers unless they're very simple, or you know what you're doing. Potentially you'd have to backup all the stuff not found in program files, and the registry entries as well.

[bloodhawke83]

Why not do the same type of activation HP uses on their version of HP Unix?

[MaximKat]

It's still Digital Rights Management. If you buy a new computer you need to install Steam to be able to prove that you are allowed to install the game, the DRM-free GOG version can be installed simply by running the EXE from your backup DVD, even if it isn't you but your grandchild who inherited your collection of ancient computer games

And the DRM-free Steam version can be installed simply by copying the folder from your backup DVD.

[Zoraptor]

Unless they bung random but required stuff into My Documents or variation thereof, or require registry entries to work properly. For the vast majority of people either of those problems would mean effectively no functional back up.

[Infinitron]

Unless they bung random but required stuff into My Documents or variation thereof, or require registry entries to work properly. For the vast majority of people either of those problems would mean effectively no functional back up.

 

None of the DRM-free games on Steam do those things. I quote: http://www.gog.com/e..._on_steam/page1

 

This is a list of games available on Steam that do not use the Steamworks CEG component, making them effectively DRM-free once installed. This means that you can copy the game folder anywhere you want and launch the .exe directly without being online or having Steam running.

 

Q: How do you determine if a game is DRM-free on Steam?

A: Simple: install the game and launch it once (this step is important, because this finalises the installation). Shut down Steam and temporarily move all the files in the root Steam folder somewhere else. Locate game folder, locate the .exe, run it. Either you get an error message (or it does nothing at all), or the game just runs. If it just runs, it is DRM-free.

 

You also need to prove you own a game to download it from GOG. As such there is no functional difference between "downloading" a DRM-free game from GOG and "installing" a DRM-free game from Steam.

 

 

You do not need a client to install a game, it is not an inherent part of installation, it's extraneous

 

That still doesn't make it any more "DRM" than logging in to your account on the GOG website is. Is there really any difference these days between a sufficiently complex web application and a regular application?

Edited October 22, 2012 by Infinitron

[JOG]

Most likely Obsidian just called the GoG version "DRM free", because they know there are people who consider Steam in any form to be DRM. Had they called it "Stream-free" version instead, we would have asked whether it has another kind of DRM. It's very likely that the Steam version will be as DRM free as a Steam version can be, otherwise it would be quite silly to have a DRM free GoG version as well.

 

The rest of the discussion is moot, GoG is the equivalent of the postman who makes sure he hands out the physical copy to the right person, while Steam is the equivalent of a service guy that comes to your home to install the game on your PC. Sure, with some effort you can avoid calling that guy again when you need to reinstall, but if you want to do this, and are able to do so, you could just as well have used the simple delivery service.

 

So why use Steam? Because of achievements or installation / game starting "convenience", if you don't care for either use the GoG version.

[matthewfarmery]

my version of the game will be steam, so that I can be sure its always up to date, Im not a steam hater, I like the service and got a lot of games on it, so that is where I will be playing the game from,

[JOG]

But for those services you need steam active, don't you? This thread is about getting the game via Steam and then being able to run it without Steam.

[ravenshrike]

Except for that it's a pretty small list among Steam-games.

 

And asking it to be the case for PE makes using Steam rather pointless. And lose sales on the odd people that buy game for achievements and such...

Most, if not all of those games have cheevos. If you want them, you log into Steam before playing the game, otherwise, you don't. Not to mention that PE will probably have an internal cheevos list, which Steam may end up updating from anyway.

[matthewfarmery]

I don't mind if steam is active or not, it doesn't bother me in the slightest

[Zoraptor]

 

None of the DRM-free games on Steam do those things. I quote: http://www.gog.com/e..._on_steam/page1

 

This is a list of games available on Steam that do not use the Steamworks CEG component, making them effectively DRM-free once installed. This means that you can copy the game folder anywhere you want and launch the .exe directly without being online or having Steam running.

 

 

Q: How do you determine if a game is DRM-free on Steam?

A: Simple: install the game and launch it once (this step is important, because this finalises the installation). Shut down Steam and temporarily move all the files in the root Steam folder somewhere else. Locate game folder, locate the .exe, run it. Either you get an error message (or it does nothing at all), or the game just runs. If it just runs, it is DRM-free.

...

 

That's clearly talking about moving folders around on the same computer- hence they have the right registry entries and My Docs already set up- rather than moving from computer to computer. The second quote is explicit about that. You've also completely destroyed your own claims that the download via the client is an inherency and should not be considered DRM, to whit "install the game and launch it once (this step is important, because this finalises the installation)". So you don't have to just install it, you also have to launch the game at least once with your gatekeeper app running- according to your own source. This DRM thing keeps getting more flexible by the minute...

 

But hey, continue whiteknighting steam- and SecuROM Launch Control- if you wish, maybe at some point you'll even get the definition of DRM changed to "something that manages digital rights and is bad, so it can't be steam because steam is good!!!!". But at the moment steam is inherent drm, and that is FACT! pure and simple no matter how much it causes panty bunching amongst a certain subset of steam devotees.

[Kindo]

If a second program needs to be started before I can play a game I already purchased, it's a form of DRM. As long as the Steam program needs to be active and running for me to be allowed to play my games, I will not consider it DRM-free, even if no other specific line of code is used in the background. GOG does not do this, as I don't need a special program to even download the game; I just get the game and install it, and then I can run it any time I want without connecting to, or launching something else first. That is why GOG has more of a right to be called DRM-free than Steam has, and that is why I immediately sent Obsidian a question about this when the Kickstarter project launched, asking them if they would also offer a DRM-free version of the game (i.e. a GOG-version).

Edited October 22, 2012 by Kindo

[Infinitron]

...

 

That's clearly talking about moving folders around on the same computer- hence they have the right registry entries and My Docs already set up- rather than moving from computer to computer. The second quote is explicit about that. You've also completely destroyed your own claims that the download via the client is an inherency and should not be considered DRM, to whit "install the game and launch it once (this step is important, because this finalises the installation)". So you don't have to just install it, you also have to launch the game at least once with your gatekeeper app running- according to your own source. This DRM thing keeps getting more flexible by the minute...

 

But hey, continue whiteknighting steam- and SecuROM Launch Control- if you wish, maybe at some point you'll even get the definition of DRM changed to "something that manages digital rights and is bad, so it can't be steam because steam is good!!!!". But at the moment steam is inherent drm, and that is FACT! pure and simple no matter how much it causes panty bunching amongst a certain subset of steam devotees.

 

You sound extremely butthurt. The fact is, it's NOT impossible to have a DRM-free game on Steam. If a game has no registry entries and does not require Steam to be running in order to play it, then Steam is merely functioning as a download client. There's nothing "impossible" about the situation I'm describing here, no matter how rare it is. I don't get why that's so hard for you to accept.

 

If a second program needs to be started before I can play a game I already purchased, it's a form of DRM. As long as the Steam program needs to be active and running for me to be allowed to play my games, I will not consider it DRM-free, even if no other specific line of code is used in the background. GOG does not do this, as I don't need a special program to even download the game; I just get the game and install it, and then I can run it any time I want without connecting to, or launching something else first. That is why GOG has more of a right to be called DRM-free than Steam has, and that is why I immediately sent Obsidian a question about this when the Kickstarter project launched, asking them if they would also offer a DRM-free version of the game (i.e. a GOG-version).

 

You do need a second program to access GOG. It's called a "web browser".

Edited October 23, 2012 by Infinitron

[RaccoonTOF]

Just as an example of a Steamworks-enabled (including achievements) title which does not require Steam in any way after initial download/installation: Dungeons of Dreadmore. Once installed, the entire game can be packed up, moved around from computer to computer (including to computers that do not and never have had Steam installed) and still has the ability to use Steam achievements (although yes you can only see the achievements when the Steam app is running, as best I can tell the game just does a "sync" when the Steam client does start if you have it installed - the executable is obviously still identical). Now, if you are of the sort that views any form of installation requirement to be DRM, and not just post-install, then you will probably still consider this DRM - but in my books it's no more DRM than the "requirement" of old physical games to install from the original CD, while not needing the CD in the drive after installation to run. As far as I can recall, noone considered those CD's to be a form of DRM...so long as they were not required to be in the drive after installation. In fact, it's arguably less so, because you can directly move the files themselves without having to go through the Steam installer to transfer it to another computer.

Edited October 23, 2012 by RaccoonTOF