The 2.8 mil stretch goal rubs me the wrong way

[Director]

I don't know who he is or care much about MotB (didn't like NWN1 and not interested in continuing to NWN2), but if his design and writing can mesh well with Avellone's, sure.

 

On the other hand, I was just reading about the design of Rashemen and that sounds fascinating...

 

NWN 2 is a completely different game to NWN 1. Your missing out.

[Superdeluxe]

Sorry, I read it completely wrong, I don't know how it happened. I read it as 1 mil when in reality it was 100k, like some of you pointed out with unnecessary bruteness.

 

I still think it's a bit peculiar that one developer is a stretch goal though. 100k isn't all that ridiculous for one developer I guess. It's about 8000 USD a month for a year, which is still a lot of money, but not for a veteran designer. It's still a bit weird though, I think.

 

Why is it a weird stretch goal? What is the purpose of a stretch goal? To entice people to pledge. Ziets has been of the most if not the most enthusiastic stretch goals out there

[Superdeluxe]

I ask myself if this money couldn't better invested.

 

Is there someone else you think of who they could get that is more qualified? Because all the money raised is ultimately going to be go towards paying the people who make the game.

 

with this money how many less know but equal talented artists could be paid?

 

How many people would pledge for lesser known artists?

 

 

[Umberlin]

I don't know who he is or care much about MotB (didn't like NWN1 and not interested in continuing to NWN2), but if his design and writing can mesh well with Avellone's, sure.

 

On the other hand, I was just reading about the design of Rashemen and that sounds fascinating...

 

NWN is funny series, its original OC was more of a tech demo to show off the toolset, than an actual game. It's important to remember NWN1 was a Bioware effort. Not many people got that. People were supposed to use the toolset to run games of their own, DM style, for other players. SoU and HotU were more along the lines of actual games, with HotU being the superior of the two, in my mind at least (though SoU had its moments). Actually the gem of NWN1 was Darkness Over Daggerford, which was just plain wonderful in every possible way.

 

NWN2 was an Obsidian effort, rather than a Bioware effort. NWN2 suffered, at first, in a similar way. NWN2's original campaign was . . . not Obsidian at their best, though, I would maintain that it was still enjoyable in its own right, and that it was a much better effort than NWN1's original campaign. Mask of the Betrayer was absolutely stunning. I know Mask of the Betrayer is a big favorite, and for very good reason, but I'll be honest . . . there were aspects of Storm of Zehir that I adored, absolutely adored. As much as I loved MotB, it's SoZ that I've gone back to play far more. I do think MotB had the stronger story and character elements though, so that's not a hit against the strong points of MotB, because it had plenty of very strong points.

[C2B]

I don't know who he is or care much about MotB (didn't like NWN1 and not interested in continuing to NWN2), but if his design and writing can mesh well with Avellone's, sure.

 

On the other hand, I was just reading about the design of Rashemen and that sounds fascinating...

 

NWN is funny series, its original OC was more of a tech demo to show off the toolset, than an actual game. It's important to remember NWN1 was a Bioware effort. Not many people got that. People were supposed to use the toolset to run games of their own, DM style, for other players. SoU and HotU were more along the lines of actual games, with HotU being the superior of the two, in my mind at least (though SoU had its moments). Actually the gem of NWN1 was Darkness Over Daggerford, which was just plain wonderful in every possible way.

 

NWN2 was an Obsidian effort, rather than a Bioware effort. NWN2 suffered, at first, in a similar way. NWN2's original campaign was . . . not Obsidian at their best, though, I would maintain that it was still enjoyable in its own right, and that it was a much better effort than NWN1's original campaign. Mask of the Betrayer was absolutely stunning. I know Mask of the Betrayer is a big favorite, and for very good reason, but I'll be honest . . . there were aspects of Storm of Zehir that I adored, absolutely adored. As much as I loved MotB, it's SoZ that I've gone back to play far more. I do think MotB had the stronger story and character elements though, so that's not a hit against the strong points of MotB, because it had plenty of very strong points.

I don't know who he is or care much about MotB (didn't like NWN1 and not interested in continuing to NWN2), but if his design and writing can mesh well with Avellone's, sure.

 

On the other hand, I was just reading about the design of Rashemen and that sounds fascinating...

 

NWN is funny series, its original OC was more of a tech demo to show off the toolset, than an actual game. It's important to remember NWN1 was a Bioware effort. Not many people got that. People were supposed to use the toolset to run games of their own, DM style, for other players. SoU and HotU were more along the lines of actual games, with HotU being the superior of the two, in my mind at least (though SoU had its moments). Actually the gem of NWN1 was Darkness Over Daggerford, which was just plain wonderful in every possible way.

 

NWN2 was an Obsidian effort, rather than a Bioware effort. NWN2 suffered, at first, in a similar way. NWN2's original campaign was . . . not Obsidian at their best, though, I would maintain that it was still enjoyable in its own right, and that it was a much better effort than NWN1's original campaign. Mask of the Betrayer was absolutely stunning. I know Mask of the Betrayer is a big favorite, and for very good reason, but I'll be honest . . . there were aspects of Storm of Zehir that I adored, absolutely adored. As much as I loved MotB, it's SoZ that I've gone back to play far more. I do think MotB had the stronger story and character elements though, so that's not a hit against the strong points of MotB, because it had plenty of very strong points.

 

SOZ is severly underrated, true. Certainly the best overall mechanics in the NWN series. IMO.

[Gorth]

Well, dlux. Seeing those kind of comment/topic, make me feared they make a wrong move by putting him after the paladins/chanters stretch goal..!

As has been mentioned a few times in the past, the stretch goals aren't really "budgets". Hypothetically speaking, maybe adding a two classes that shares similar traits costs $50k. Adding a senior designer developer may cost $125k (completely made up numbers, no idea what the cost of living in Orange County is). By adding the classes first and the developer last, they get the grand total they need for both stretch goals, but if they fail to hit the larger target, they will still have the small target covered and then some. Just speculation on my part. I fully expect (and cross fingers for) mr. Ziets being on board

[Fluffle]

Feargus just stated it again on the latest update because people keep complaining and still do not understand:

 

"With each stretch goal hit not only are we adding a new feature, we are also making the entire game larger. The additional money raised lets us add designers, artists, animators, and programmers to help build this incredible new world we are creating. This means adding more reactive quests, choice and consequence opportunities, a varied bestiary, memorable characters, adventure areas, and combat abilities."

 

This is similar to what I have already posted, though that was what he said on the comments page.

The quote above however is taken from the latest update.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Fluffle

[Hornet85]

Yep, this is the problem with crowd funding. You can say that your only obligation is to the fans, but the fans have a billion different diverging opinions. You really, really can't please all of the people all of the time. What 'rubs you the wrong way' is actually the only stretch goal that has me excited.

 

My suggestion to Obsidian: ignore people who don't agree with me. Its the only way to produce a quality game.

 

Personally I don't think that's surprising. I mean the internet community, gamer community or any community for that matter, is not a single entity. Its made up of different people and different people have different opinion. I don't see why we would expect a community to agree unanimously on anything.

 

There will always be people with opposing views and personally I don't see that as a problem. In fact I think its good to have opinions from others who see the same thing from a different perspective, as it ensures that all possibilities are explored, all pros and cons are explored, and we need a community of people with different views to do that.

 

So while I disagree with the thread starter, I am glad he's voicing out his views. In ensures that something is being evaluated from all possible angles.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Hornet85

[Hassat Hunter]

I don't need a mac or linux version. I don't need Russian or Chinese or German or whatever.

 

All those damn stretchgoals. I better give up the game now since I am surely dissapointed they spend money at such frivilous things like supporting other languages or support systems. Waste of perfectly good millions.

Couldn't they have done something better with that? I suggest a giant golden statue of me. Made by 5 graphic designers over the course of 3 months. Should be a stretch goal...

[Totottoro]

"This thread is bad, and you should feel bad!"

 

*coughs*

 

Seriously, though, $100k to bring back a veteran Obsidian writer who recently lost his job, and who's known for writing both great lore and characters, is definitely a fantastic thing. We should see it as an achievement, and proof of just how awesome crowdfunding can be!

 

(Also, imagine how much more and diverse written content the game can get with one more writer on the team.)

They need that much because rumour has it that George is a bit of a prima donna. He insists on fresh orchids in his dressing room, M&Ms with all the yellow ones removed, a black stretch hummer to pick him up every morning to take him to work and a chorus of dwarven castrato to sing ave maria while he's thinking in the mornings.

 

These things all add up.

Let's assume in this case the whole 100K is blown on getting Ziets onboard.

So... what else worthwhile could they get for the same cashpile? And extra developer with some other name?

 

It's not like Obsidian is giving Ziets a pile of money just to get his name on the back cover of the box.

I'm almost sure they'll actually make him work for it, doing some writing, making coffee, or something.

I love how, after much clamoring (14 pages and counting, was it ?) for Mr Zeits to be added to stretch goals, when it finally happens, peoples are being rubbed the wrong way.

 

I wouldn't want to be doing a Kickstarter with that wide an audience, must be maddening. There's just no pleasing us.

Sorry, I read it completely wrong, I don't know how it happened. I read it as 1 mil when in reality it was 100k, like some of you pointed out with unnecessary bruteness.

 

I still think it's a bit peculiar that one developer is a stretch goal though. 100k isn't all that ridiculous for one developer I guess. It's about 8000 USD a month for a year, which is still a lot of money, but not for a veteran designer. It's still a bit weird though, I think.

 

The people asked for zIeT (edit: It was the people's idea to add him as a stretch goal, enough said. Argument end. Period)

 

 

I'll just leave this here for you...

[Troller]

Dungeon Siege 3 and MOTB were both very good games, so he must be talented

[Volourn]

MOTB was awesome. DS3 was crap.

 

 

"My suggestion to Obsidian: ignore people who don't agree with me. Its the only way to produce a quality game."

 

I agree.. only if the 'me' in your statement refers to 'me' as in Volourn. My way is the right way. As Tim Cain. I was right with what I posted aboput TOEE pre release. <>

Edited October 11, 2012 by Volourn

[Elerond]

$100k for creative lead from 18 months work isn't really so much. What I looked that $100k in year is about average what people in his postion earn in IT sector in USA.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Elerond

[rjshae]

Personally I don't think that's surprising. I mean the internet community, gamer community or any community for that matter, is not a single entity. Its made up of different people and different people have different opinion. I don't see why we would expect a community to agree unanimously on anything.

 

There will always be people with opposing views and personally I don't see that as a problem. In fact I think its good to have opinions from others who see the same thing from a different perspective, as it ensures that all possibilities are explored, all pros and cons are explored, and we need a community of people with different views to do that.

 

So while I disagree with the thread starter, I am glad he's voicing out his views. In ensures that something is being evaluated from all possible angles.

 

Personally I think it's been a splendid discussion, despite a lot of grumbling and fretting. Sure there are differences, but you can also recognize some strong commonalities as well. They obviously picked up some popular trends like the Adventure Hall and recent class additions from the discussion threads. I hope (and expect) where they will follow their own advice is in the development of the world setting and the plot. That includes the companions, the magic system, the native inhabitants, and so forth.