Ownership: Paying for things twice.

[PsychoBlonde]

Question--if you bought a VCR and later switched to a DVD player, would you complain like this about having to pay "full price" to get the DVD version? Or the BluRay version?

 

How about this--get it on GoG and then wait for it to go on CRAZY sale on the Steam store (which it surely will eventually) and get it for like, $3.99. But don't try to make the devs responsible for getting you a copy on every conceivable delivery system you might possibly want to use.

 

It baffles me how people think they're entitled to have everything from every source. You are not buying "the game". You're buying a single copy, through a particular delivery method. Accept that and learn how to weigh pros/cons and make choices.

[AwesomeOcelot]

They don't have to pay for two copies.

 

You don't think so?

 

Maybe the question should be looked at differently:

 

Why should CDProjekt and GOG provide you a copy of the game just because you have access to it via Steam?

 

Why is that?

Because you're buying from two different people. Steam and GOG.com are different stores. You can't expect Target to honor your purchases at Wal-Mart.

 

They shouldn't have to, it doesn't have to be through GOG, it can be through a bittorrent tracker or another avenue from Obsidian. They may want to do it, the same way that Steam allows some games to be registered on it if they're from Amazon, GamersGate, Green Man Gaming, or the Humble Indie Bundle.

 

Question--if you bought a VCR and later switched to a DVD player, would you complain like this about having to pay "full price" to get the DVD version? Or the BluRay version?

 

How about this--get it on GoG and then wait for it to go on CRAZY sale on the Steam store (which it surely will eventually) and get it for like, $3.99. But don't try to make the devs responsible for getting you a copy on every conceivable delivery system you might possibly want to use.

 

It baffles me how people think they're entitled to have everything from every source. You are not buying "the game". You're buying a single copy, through a particular delivery method. Accept that and learn how to weigh pros/cons and make choices.

 

It's not the same content from a VCR to a DVD to a BluRay. It's not the same licenses for the formats. They're all forms of physical media. Do you actually know what these things are?

 

That's not what I'm asking, you obviously did not read my post. I don't care about the delivery method. That's a complete red herring.

 

I'm not buying a single copy, I don't think you understand how this works at all. I can download the game as many times as I want when I buy it from GOG or Steam. I can copy it onto many computers. I can even buy games from other stores and activate them on steam. Have you ever used GOG or Steam? They treat purchase as a license to play the game.

[alanschu]

They shouldn't have to, it doesn't have to be through GOG, it can be through a bittorrent tracker or another avenue from Obsidian. They may want to do it, the same way that Steam allows some games to be registered on it if they're from Amazon, GamersGate, Green Man Gaming, or the Humble Indie Bundle.

 

So basically you're saying "don't use Steam or GOG, use something else?"

 

 

As for Steam "allowing" some games to be "registered" on it, are you referring to games that use, say, Steamworks?

Edited September 21, 2012 by alanschu

[AwesomeOcelot]

They shouldn't have to, it doesn't have to be through GOG, it can be through a bittorrent tracker or another avenue from Obsidian. They may want to do it, the same way that Steam allows some games to be registered on it if they're from Amazon, GamersGate, Green Man Gaming, or the Humble Indie Bundle.

 

So basically you're saying "don't use Steam or GOG, use something else?"

 

 

As for Steam "allowing" some games to be "registered" on it, are you referring to games that use, say, Steamworks?

 

Whatever is necessary. It would be good if Steam and GOG were still options. No, not Steamworks, games don't have to have Steamworks to be registered on Steam from other sites like the Humble Indie Bundle. I think that you should be able to register on Steam, use their services, but also have access to a DRM-free version if there's one available that you don't have to pay for again, only the costs involved with having it accessible.

[alanschu]

I think that you should be able to register on Steam, use their services, but also have access to a DRM-free version if there's one available that you don't have to pay for again, only the costs involved with having it accessible.

 

This is Steam's prerogative to do this though. It's also not something that is just done willynilly and for free. There's a reason why I can register my boxed copy of UT2k4 on Steam but not my GamersGate copy of Crusader Kings 2.

 

Also, you do know you can add non-Steam games to Steam right? That gets you most of the benefits anyways...

[AwesomeOcelot]

I think that you should be able to register on Steam, use their services, but also have access to a DRM-free version if there's one available that you don't have to pay for again, only the costs involved with having it accessible.

 

This is Steam's prerogative to do this though. It's also not something that is just done willynilly and for free. There's a reason why I can register my boxed copy of UT2k4 on Steam but not my GamersGate copy of Crusader Kings 2.

 

Also, you do know you can add non-Steam games to Steam right? That gets you most of the benefits anyways...

 

It is Steam's perogative, but they want people to use Steam so that's not going to be a problem, they do it for the Humble Indie Bundle. Adding game shortcuts to Steam doesn't add autoupdate/file integrity or the Steamworks features AFAIK.

[nikolokolus]

So somebody please 'splain to me what the hell the big deal is? I think it must be because I'm old and dumb that the idea of getting something for nothing isn't registering correctly.

[alanschu]

It is Steam's perogative, but they want people to use Steam so that's not going to be a problem, they do it for the Humble Indie Bundle. Adding game shortcuts to Steam doesn't add autoupdate/file integrity or the Steamworks features AFAIK.

 

Then why doesn't Steam do it for every game that is available through different distrubtors? After all it would get everyone to use Steam.

 

 

You have to understand you're literally telling Valve/Steam to equally support a game purchased through, say, Good Old Games, at no compensation for themselves.

Edited September 21, 2012 by alanschu

[AwesomeOcelot]

It is Steam's perogative, but they want people to use Steam so that's not going to be a problem, they do it for the Humble Indie Bundle. Adding game shortcuts to Steam doesn't add autoupdate/file integrity or the Steamworks features AFAIK.

 

Then why doesn't Steam do it for every game that is available through different distrubtors? After all it would get everyone to use Steam.

 

 

You have to understand you're literally telling Valve/Steam to equally support a game purchased through, say, Good Old Games, at no compensation for themselves.

 

Steam don't do it for all games because they don't have an infinite amount of time and they need the rights owner's permission. It's quite obvious they would like people to use Steam, they might buy things while they're there, they even allow Free to Play games there.

 

I'm not telling them to do that, that's not what I have been writing at all, Steam don't have to do anything, they're already distributing the game.

[Deraldin]

I'm not telling them to do that, that's not what I have been writing at all, Steam don't have to do anything, they're already distributing the game.

 

You're saying that they have to provide their servers to you, so that you can download a game that you bought somewhere else, that they aren't seeing any money from.

[Shadowless]

Okay, you "buy" the game, it is YOUR CHOICE where to buy it. If you later realize you wanted it for a different platform or different outlet this is not Obsidian's doing. It is your fault for making a mistake. People had to spend their time porting it to Linux which costed money, why on earth should Obsidian allow you to have both versions for the same amount of money? They shouldn't. If you want steam's autoupdate/file integrity buy it on steam, if you feel like the DRM of steam is not worth the hastle, buy it elsewhere. Obsidian has quite a few employees, some of them very large names that probably come with large salaries, if you want different versions of the game it's simple, buy it again. They do not owe you anything and giving out buy one get one/two's free is a terrible business model for larger developers. So yes, by all means keep asking why you can't get more for free and see a company possibly die before its time. I do not pay someone to mow my lawn for 20$ and expect them to garden for free.

 

Also to answer your other question, You are indeed an entitled gamer.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Shadowless

[Gurkog]

If you want the STEAM copy, get the STEAM copy... If you want DRM free, get the DRM free. Since you seem to like STEAM I have no idea why you would want the DRM free too.

[Hurlshort]

You are paying twice for something because you want two different versions. That's life.

[alanschu]

Steam don't do it for all games because they don't have an infinite amount of time and they need the rights owner's permission. It's quite obvious they would like people to use Steam, they might buy things while they're there, they even allow Free to Play games there.

 

Are you honestly telling me that the IP holder/game creator are the ones not allowing Valve/Steam to integrate purchases from other digital distributors (or even boxed copies)

 

 

I'm not telling them to do that, that's not what I have been writing at all, Steam don't have to do anything, they're already distributing the game.

 

 

I don't think you really understand the process if you really think Steam doesn't have to do anything. And it's irrelevant which company you really choose. Because by extension you're also saying that Good Old Games should allow people to download this game when the game has been purchased through Steam. You're telling CDProjekt to offer their services without any sort of compensation.

[nikolokolus]

I have to stop reading this thread, before I get the urge to lob insults ...

Edited September 21, 2012 by nikolokolus

[Tychoxi]

I've have seen some KS games do this (like Banner Saga), and I can understand the appeal: I use all the cool STEAM features but I have the DRM free version as a secure backup.

GOG has done this too, but in reverse, for the Witcher games.

 

But it's a very delicate thing that's really up to the developer. You are already getting the game if you pledged the appropriate amount, they never said you'd get access to all distribution platforms.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Tychoxi

[AwesomeOcelot]

I'm not telling them to do that, that's not what I have been writing at all, Steam don't have to do anything, they're already distributing the game.

 

You're saying that they have to provide their servers to you, so that you can download a game that you bought somewhere else, that they aren't seeing any money from.

 

No I'm not, that's not even close. I'm saying they gladly do this, but that's not even what I'm asking. I'm not asking Steam to offer its service, that's backwards.

 

If you want the STEAM copy, get the STEAM copy... If you want DRM free, get the DRM free. Since you seem to like STEAM I have no idea why you would want the DRM free too.

 

What if Steam changes in the future? What if I want to play Project Eternity while Steam is downloading or while someone else is playing another game? What if I haven't got the internet at that moment to install the game from Steam?

[Gurkog]

If you want the STEAM copy, get the STEAM copy... If you want DRM free, get the DRM free. Since you seem to like STEAM I have no idea why you would want the DRM free too.

 

What if Steam changes in the future? What if I want to play Project Eternity while Steam is downloading or while someone else is playing another game? What if I haven't got the internet at that moment to install the game from Steam?

 

Then just get the GoG version. I still don't see why you would need both.

 

EDIT: When picking a service you have to take the good with the bad.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Gurkog

[AwesomeOcelot]

If you want the STEAM copy, get the STEAM copy... If you want DRM free, get the DRM free. Since you seem to like STEAM I have no idea why you would want the DRM free too.

 

What if Steam changes in the future? What if I want to play Project Eternity while Steam is downloading or while someone else is playing another game? What if I haven't got the internet at that moment to install the game from Steam?

 

Then just get the GoG version. I still don't see why you would need both.

 

EDIT: When picking a service you have to take the good with the bad.

 

Since I explained why in my original post I don't know why you even bothered to comment.

[Gurkog]

If you want the STEAM copy, get the STEAM copy... If you want DRM free, get the DRM free. Since you seem to like STEAM I have no idea why you would want the DRM free too.

 

What if Steam changes in the future? What if I want to play Project Eternity while Steam is downloading or while someone else is playing another game? What if I haven't got the internet at that moment to install the game from Steam?

 

Then just get the GoG version. I still don't see why you would need both.

 

EDIT: When picking a service you have to take the good with the bad.

 

Since I explained why in my original post I don't know why you even bothered to comment.

 

.... I guess I should respond by saying, "read my sig"

[alanschu]

Since I explained why in my original post I don't know why you even bothered to comment.

 

You explained magical happy land. You're saying "Hey CDProjekt, I bought this game through Steam. Valve has some money, but you should let me download it because I'd really like a DRM free version."

[AwesomeOcelot]

Since I explained why in my original post I don't know why you even bothered to comment.

 

You explained magical happy land. You're saying "Hey CDProjekt, I bought this game through Steam. Valve has some money, but you should let me download it because I'd really like a DRM free version."

 

As I've explained multiple times now, I don't care whether it's GOG or Obsidian find some where else, even use a torrent tracker, that doesn't matter. Even if they charged for the bandwidth use, who cares, it's not like you need to download the entire game if you already have one version, you have the vast majority of content. I'd really like to know what people think you're getting for "free" and how it's such a big deal.

[Deraldin]

Since I explained why in my original post I don't know why you even bothered to comment.

 

You explained magical happy land. You're saying "Hey CDProjekt, I bought this game through Steam. Valve has some money, but you should let me download it because I'd really like a DRM free version."

 

As I've explained multiple times now, I don't care whether it's GOG or Obsidian find some where else, even use a torrent tracker, that doesn't matter. Even if they charged for the bandwidth use, who cares, it's not like you need to download the entire game if you already have one version, you have the vast majority of content. I'd really like to know what people think you're getting for "free" and how it's such a big deal.

 

Why do you need to be able to download it from multiple sources?

[AwesomeOcelot]

Since I explained why in my original post I don't know why you even bothered to comment.

 

You explained magical happy land. You're saying "Hey CDProjekt, I bought this game through Steam. Valve has some money, but you should let me download it because I'd really like a DRM free version."

 

As I've explained multiple times now, I don't care whether it's GOG or Obsidian find some where else, even use a torrent tracker, that doesn't matter. Even if they charged for the bandwidth use, who cares, it's not like you need to download the entire game if you already have one version, you have the vast majority of content. I'd really like to know what people think you're getting for "free" and how it's such a big deal.

 

Why do you need to be able to download it from multiple sources?

 

That's not the point. I've already explained why I'd like a Steam version and a DRM-free version.

[Deraldin]

Since I explained why in my original post I don't know why you even bothered to comment.

 

You explained magical happy land. You're saying "Hey CDProjekt, I bought this game through Steam. Valve has some money, but you should let me download it because I'd really like a DRM free version."

 

As I've explained multiple times now, I don't care whether it's GOG or Obsidian find some where else, even use a torrent tracker, that doesn't matter. Even if they charged for the bandwidth use, who cares, it's not like you need to download the entire game if you already have one version, you have the vast majority of content. I'd really like to know what people think you're getting for "free" and how it's such a big deal.

 

Why do you need to be able to download it from multiple sources?

 

That's not the point. I've already explained why I'd like a Steam version and a DRM-free version.

Then please state it again, because I'm not sure I understand what your point is.