[Merged] Non-casters Need To Have Interesting Choices In Combat

[Labadal]

I'd like to see stuff like shield bash, dirty fighting, stunning strikes, etc.

 

I know you guys are going to laugh, but it would be cool if there were more than one class that has for example dirty fighting, but the effect is different.

 

Dirty Fighting

Fighter: Eye Poke, or something else that is considered dirty in a "fair" fight.

Rouge (or any stealthy character): Stab the knee of an opponent, or something like that. Stab in the face, or whatever. Throw sand in enemies face.

Monk (H&H combat character): Kidney punch or whatever is a better option.

Barbarian: Bite your opponent! (I couldn't come up with anything, lol) Would be a problem against heavily armored enemies.

[Sarog]

I'd like to see stuff like shield bash, dirty fighting, stunning strikes, etc.

 

I know you guys are going to laugh, but it would be cool if there were more than one class that has for example dirty fighting, but the effect is different.

 

Dirty Fighting

Fighter: Eye Poke, or something else that is considered dirty in a "fair" fight.

Rouge (or any stealthy character): Stab the knee of an opponent, or something like that. Stab in the face, or whatever. Throw sand in enemies face.

Monk (H&H combat character): Kidney punch or whatever is a better option.

Barbarian: Bite your opponent! (I couldn't come up with anything, lol) Would be a problem against heavily armored enemies.

 

Having your different combat modes change your combat animations to reflect your fighting style would be awesome. You can extend that quite a ways beyond just dirty fighting.

[Labadal]

I'd like to see stuff like shield bash, dirty fighting, stunning strikes, etc.

 

I know you guys are going to laugh, but it would be cool if there were more than one class that has for example dirty fighting, but the effect is different.

 

Dirty Fighting

Fighter: Eye Poke, or something else that is considered dirty in a "fair" fight.

Rouge (or any stealthy character): Stab the knee of an opponent, or something like that. Stab in the face, or whatever. Throw sand in enemies face.

Monk (H&H combat character): Kidney punch or whatever is a better option.

Barbarian: Bite your opponent! (I couldn't come up with anything, lol) Would be a problem against heavily armored enemies.

 

Having your different combat modes change your combat animations to reflect your fighting style would be awesome. You can extend that quite a ways beyond just dirty fighting.

 

Yes, dirty fighting was just one of many examples.

[fkldnhlsdngsfnhlsndlg]

I'd rather see fighters be made interesting by various D&D-style modes (power attack, etc.) as well as items and equipment. Potions and cool gear should be a fighter's magic, not Awesome Button abilities that let you beat down on monsters with extra DPS or stuns etc. Playing a fighter in Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale, for instance, is not boring because the combat system and the equipment available have enough depth to support interesting gameplay.

 

Meanwhile a title like Dragon Age would not have interesting gameplay for fighters unless the developers specifically include those "press 1 for moar damage" abilities that add very little to gameplay but give you the illusion of actually doing something important during combat. In other words, the only reason it "needs" all of those abilities is a) because having a fighter with no abilities and skills next to other classes would look anemic, and b) because, due to deficiencies in other aspects of combat, fighting would be dull and boring if you didn't bring mages along with you.

 

Additionally, if you have a system which is designed to allow players to have all-fighter parties, you've done something wrong. The entire point of a party-based RPG is to give the player the option of using multiple characters with distinct strengths and weaknesses to fight together as a unit and support each other. If every class is basically capable of everything, much of the appeal of a party-based system disappears. That's not to say a game shouldn't allow for alternate methods and play-styles (wild mage, solo, insanity difficulty, etc.) but that should be an optional challenge, not a function of a combat system that makes every character equally effective. When you start getting RPGs where rogues and fighters have near-magic "skills", AoE effects, etc., you know something is wrong.

Edited September 16, 2012 by sea

[catmorbid]

One thing you could do would be to give characters a different amount of defensive and offensive actions, i.e. evades and attacks, and have them be controlled by a combat stance system. I.e. Defending versus an attack consumes a defensive action, while making an attack consumes an offensive action. Then have stances work something like this:

 

Turtle: 4 evades, 0 attacks, defensive bonus

Defensive: 3 evades, 1 attack

Balanced: 2 evades, 2 attacks

Offensive: 1 evade, 3 attacks

Berserk: 0 evades, 4 attacks, extra damage

 

Suddenly there's huge difference in choosing how many opponents to fight at a time. Counter strikes and similar skills would become important for the defensive fighter and offensive fighters could also invest in cleave type abilities that allow dishing out damage to multiple opponents. Add to this chances for called shots or other special attacks, maybe even special defensive maneuvers. Some special actions could take more than one attack/evade meaning they only work together with certain stances, but are still not limited with a stupid cooldown type mechanic.

[Inertia]

What i loved most about playing the old infinity engine games was playing a sorcerer or any of the other casting classes. Layering protections of blur mirror images stoneskins improved invisibilities prepping chain contingencied horrid wiltings and lower resist spell triggers and preparing to break enemy defenses with true sights and breach spells was a really fun aspect of the game for me, but when it came to deciding what my fighter would do it basically came down to having him run into a mob of enemies an hope they hit him instead of my casters. Once in a while u'd click a greater whirlwind or something or play with some passive skills that basically just shifted your hit rating and damage/defense ratios. so i guess what im asking for is more active skills similar to what casters can do for non casting classes.. shield bashes? eye gouges... multi shot arrows something anything

Edited September 18, 2012 by Inertia

[Tale]

I don't play non-casters anymore, not since Neverwinter Nights, so my opinion here probably isn't worth squat. Which is why I'm glad I don't actually have one. I see the value either way. Improving tactical options for physical characters is a concept that's nice for making them more interesting to play for people who do really want to play them. But there's value to nostalgia, especially here, and emphasizing the distinction of physical compared to magical that would be served by the classic 4 attacks in a round, a small handful of actions, and leave it at that. Even in tactics, it's nice to have characters you don't have to micro every round so you can focus on the back row.

 

So I'm torn.

[Odarbi]

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/59982-non-casters-need-to-have-interesting-choices-in-combat/

[ogrezilla]

I would definitely like to see fighter skills. I don't mean big things like whirlwinds and leap attacks and such; let the fighters do most of their damage with plain attacks. But something like a shield bash would be cool for a shield user or a skill to let a rogue type trip their opponent. Just enough to add some flavor and to allow these classes to be more fun. Just a few simple skills. I wouldn't want any threat or taunt skills. If he gets to my mage, maybe give my warrior a tackle skill that knocks both the enemy and myself down, giving the mage a little time to move. The rogue's trip might not be as reliable, but wouldn't have the drawback of knocking himself down as well.

Edited September 18, 2012 by ogrezilla

[BasaltineBadger]

My idea for defending allies is to give fighter some defense mode that would establish Zone of Control around him. Fighter would gain ability to deal automatic stronger attack to every character that tries to enter or leave ZoC (like in ToEE) and every attack made from ZoC against an ally who is in ZoC would make fighter cover ally and take attack on himself.

As for combat abilities, fighters and rogues should get more movement options like ability to jump through enemies or running which would sacrifice their defense abilities for higher mobility.