Russian pro-democracy protests

[Humodour]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-12-08/gorb...re-vote/3719102

 

Former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev called for Russia's elections to be re-run as the opposition vowed to stage new rallies contesting the results.

 

Police threw a huge security cordon around a central Moscow square to prevent any new rallies, as the opposition called for a mass gathering near the Kremlin on Saturday.

 

A handful of arrests were reported in Moscow on Wednesday as police cordoned off central squares, while about 70 people were detained in a third night of rallies in Russia's second city of Saint Petersburg.

 

The wave of protests and a loss of support in the parliamentary elections have provided Russian prime minister Vladimir Putin with an unexpected challenge as he prepares to return to the Kremlin in 2012 presidential polls.

 

Amid growing international alarm over the claims of vote rigging, Mr Gorbachev said the results of Sunday's poll should be invalidated and new elections held due to "numerous falsifications and rigging".

 

"The results do not reflect the will of the people," Mr Gorbachev, president when the Soviet Union collapsed two decades ago, told the Interfax news agency.

 

"Therefore I think they [Russia's leaders] can only take one decision - annul the results of the election and hold new ones."

 

Mr Putin's United Russia party won the polls with a reduced majority, amid signs his once-invincible popularity might be waning.

 

The opposition says his party's performance would have been even worse in free elections, with both US secretary of state Hillary Clinton and EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton expressing "serious concern".

 

German chancellor Angel Merkel on Wednesday also called on Russia to clear up the reports of violations and to allow protesters to have their say on the streets.

 

Germany "expects that Russia will live up to its democratic obligations as a constitutional state," Ms Merkel said through a spokesman.

 

"The way the Duma (Russian parliament) vote was carried out was, in some places, a worry."

 

Mr Putin has yet to make any comment about the demonstrations, which commentators have described as the biggest opposition rallies since the chaotic early 1990s just after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

 

The Russian strongman formally filed his application to stand for the presidency with the central election commission on Wednesday but television pictures only showed him smiling enigmatically.

 

The parliament polls were seen as a litmus test of Mr Putin's popularity as he prepares to take the Kremlin from his protege Dmitry Medvedev and embark on a new six-year mandate.

 

Activists say some results stretched all credibility, such as United Russia's polling 99.5 per cent in the Caucasus region of Chechnya, and almost all the residents of a Moscow psychiatric hospital voting for the party.

 

The results do not reflect the will of the people, therefore I think they [Russia's leaders] can only take one decision - annul the results of the election and hold new ones.

 

Former soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev

Internet-based protesters vowed further demonstrations in the days to come, despite a warning by police that participants in unsanctioned protests would be arrested.

 

A group "for honest elections" said on its Facebook page that a new demonstration would take place in Revolution Square in central Moscow on Saturday. More than 17,000 members of the Facebook group have already promised to attend.

 

But a Moscow city government official told private Dozhd television the square may be closed on Saturday because of urgent repairs on a burst water pipe.

 

Police said 550 people were detained in Tuesday's rally in Moscow with another 200 held in Saint Petersburg. Many were released but Moscow Echo radio said six of those detained were given jail terms of up to 15 days.

 

The authorities were caught by surprise when the first opposition rally on Monday evening attracted thousands. Influential opposition blogger Alexei Navalny, who coined the slogan "swindlers and thieves", was among those arrested and was sentenced on Tuesday to 15 days in jail.

 

State television news has virtually ignored the demonstrations, and the news bulletins on Channel One did not contain a single mention of the protests all day.

 

But with the authorities clearly nervous, police said more than 51,000 police were guarding the city streets, among them 2,000 army conscripts, in a heightened security regime.

[Gorth]

Yeah, Putin is such a fraud. They should give the presidency to the second largest party instead. LoF would have a field day if the Communist Party got back in power

[Walsingham]

Yeah, Putin is such a fraud. They should give the presidency to the second largest party instead. LoF would have a field day if the Communist Party got back in power

 

You misunderstand 'LoF'. In his head, every day is May Day.

 

Come to that, Krez. Weren't you just talking about forced return of wealth to the masses in the other thread?

[Humodour]

Come to that, Krez. Weren't you just talking about forced return of wealth to the masses in the other thread?

 

I doubt it. I'm largely a capitalist (just not a bat**** laissez-faire extremist like so many US citizens - i.e. I believe in capitalism for its generally high utility in solving socioeconomic problems, and no more). Feel free to quote me if you believe otherwise, though. I suspect you'll have a very tough time finding any evidence that I believe in the "forced return of wealth to the masses".

[Nepenthe]

Yeah, Putin is such a fraud. They should give the presidency to the second largest party instead. LoF would have a field day if the Communist Party got back in power

Umm... Widespread election fraud has been reported by official foreign supervisors. Clearly they are also just on an agenda to get the commies back for another round of the cold war.

[Walsingham]

"Occupy activists descend on Brooklyn on first day of campaign to move homeless people into buildings foreclosed by US banks"

 

Just a few corrections for you there Gfted1: 'they' are moving homeless people (not themselves) into empty foreclosed homes.

 

Mob rule. Yay!

[Fighter]

When at least 50 thousand comes out there will be something to talk about. This is nothing and will lead to nothing. Fact is the people who pass themselves as "leaders of democratic opposition" are incompetent buffoons with unpopular ideas or no ideas at all (no I don't refer to the basics).

 

Fox news being their usual self trying to pass clashes in Greece as Russia:

 

Edited December 8, 2011 by Fighter

[Walsingham]

Fighter does have a point that at a brute level you need more people in Russia to qualify as a really popular protest.

[Humodour]

"Occupy activists descend on Brooklyn on first day of campaign to move homeless people into buildings foreclosed by US banks"

 

Just a few corrections for you there Gfted1: 'they' are moving homeless people (not themselves) into empty foreclosed homes.

 

Mob rule. Yay!

 

Come on mate, use your brain here. How does what you quoted in any way represent mob rule (I mean we're talking about individual activists for smeg's sake), let alone demonstrate ME personally condoning it? I was pulling Gfted1 up for his disingenuous spin on the issue.

 

Regarding Russia - you could write this off, Fighter. Many in the Arab world and abroad tried to do so with the Arab Spring to amusing effect (I remember it happened to every single country that overthrew its regime - Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and now Syria... people wrote the protesters and opposition off as being 'too small' and many went to elaborate lengths to explain why their movements would go nowhere). But the interesting thing is that this electoral fraud comes on the back of Putin's party's percentage of the vote, even after the fraud falling, to historic lows. Russians aren't the same people they were 5 or 10 years ago. Something has clearly changed in their psyche.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Krezack

[Fighter]

Regarding Russia - you could write this off, Fighter. Many in the Arab world and abroad tried to do so with the Arab Spring to amusing effect (I remember it happened to every single country that overthrew its regime - Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and now Syria... people wrote the protesters and opposition off as being 'too small' and many went to elaborate lengths to explain why their movements would go nowhere). But the interesting thing is that this electoral fraud comes on the back of Putin's party's percentage of the vote, even after the fraud falling, to historic lows. Russians aren't the same people they were 5 or 10 years ago. Something has clearly changed in their psyche.

 

I am Russian so don't lecture me on this please. I know how this happens, first there are small protests that everyone brushes aside and then suddenly there are 500 000 people in the streets. That is how it was in 1991. But until this happens there is nothing to talk about because years may pass. You think this is the first protest that gathered 5000 - 10000 people? There have been dozens. There were protests exactly like this after the last election in 2007:

 

And everyone said it will be just like the "color revolutions" in Ukraine, Georgia, etc.

 

And hello, it's 2011. Putin is still there.

 

And now it'll be the "Arab Spring" in Russia? Not convinced.

 

Saturday will be another supposedly big demonstration. We'll see then.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Fighter

[Nepenthe]

A Russian living in Finland did a statistical analysis of the (publically available) Russian electoral results, essentially proving cheating on a massive scale. Unfortunately the data isn't available in English yet and it's too involved for me to reference here, but a particular favourite details are that the governing party's share of votes goes through the roof in those areas with high percentages (ballot stuffing) and that exceptional amount of voting districts had flat percentages of voters turn out (70 %, 75 %, 80 % etc.).

 

Edit: link for our Finns: http://antonnikolenko.blogspot.com/2011/12...astollinen.html

Edited December 9, 2011 by Nepenthe

[Morgoth]

Comrade Putin is only legitimate leader of mother Russia, how dare you make this grave insult to innocent Russian people by questioning their loyality to our glorious leader Putin? Russia is advanced democracy, Russian people always vote for right leader.

[Walsingham]

As Fighter says, Krez: a few thousand people does not a revolution make.

 

If I write off the occupy protests as the blethering of a handful of eedjits then I'm obliged to ignore similar turnouts elsewhere, or be inconsistent.

 

~~

 

My favourite stat I heard about the election was Putin getting >90% in Chechen areas. That's not just fraud. That's retarded fraud.

[Fighter]

99% in Chechnya to be precise. And not for the first time. Also 91% in Ingushetia and Dagestan. Everyone knows it's retarded.

[kirottu]

My favourite stat I heard about the election was Putin getting >90% in Chechen areas. That's not just fraud. That's retarded fraud.

 

That was my favorite too.

[Fighter]

The best thing is they got >90% in prisons and... insane asylums.

[Humodour]

Comrade Putin is only legitimate leader of mother Russia, how dare you make this grave insult to innocent Russian people by questioning their loyality to our glorious leader Putin? Russia is advanced democracy, Russian people always vote for right leader.

 

Best post ever.

 

One of the other hilarious cases of electoral fraud was all the mental asylums (which still exist in Russia) voting 100% for United Russia (Putin's party). Nothing suss there hey.

[HoonDing]

Comrade Putin is only legitimate leader of mother Russia, how dare you make this grave insult to innocent Russian people by questioning their loyality to our glorious leader Putin? Russia is advanced democracy, Russian people always vote for right leader.

[Walsingham]

Comrade Putin is only legitimate leader of mother Russia, how dare you make this grave insult to innocent Russian people by questioning their loyality to our glorious leader Putin? Russia is advanced democracy, Russian people always vote for right leader.

 

Best post ever.

 

One of the other hilarious cases of electoral fraud was all the mental asylums (which still exist in Russia) voting 100% for United Russia (Putin's party). Nothing suss there hey.

 

They're crazy. Not stupid.

 

Protests appear to be swelling in strength.

 

Whether these succeed or not I think there is cause to be cautiously optimistic about Russia in general. It is a fantastic country, and does not deserve its current status as kleptocracy.

[Fighter]

Today was pretty big. We'll see.

 

[Calax]

I'm just wondering if Putin's "BONE MORE!" campaign will continue.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Comrade Putin is only legitimate leader of mother Russia, how dare you make this grave insult to innocent Russian people by questioning their loyality to our glorious leader Putin? Russia is advanced democracy, Russian people always vote for right leader.

 

Best post ever.

 

One of the other hilarious cases of electoral fraud was all the mental asylums (which still exist in Russia) voting 100% for United Russia (Putin's party). Nothing suss there hey.

 

They're crazy. Not stupid.

 

Protests appear to be swelling in strength.

 

Whether these succeed or not I think there is cause to be cautiously optimistic about Russia in general. It is a fantastic country, and does not deserve its current status as kleptocracy.

Unfortunately a kleptocracy is all it's ever been

[Walsingham]

Oh well THAT'S FINE THEN.