Libya 2

[obyknven]

Mail from "Blue Star Mothers of America" http://www.bluestarsouthbayla.org/

 

From: gailc@bluestarsouthbayla.org

 

To: pahomov1985@mail.ru

 

theme: [Fwd: [Contact] Stop War LIbya]

 

DR.PAKHOMOV

 

I AM HAPPY THAT MY SONS AND DAUGHTERS ARE TEARING UP LIBYA AND

 

I WILL REJOICE IN THEIR CONTINUED SUCCESS. WE NEED TO ELIMINATE FOLKS

 

LIKE YOU.

 

GOD BLESS AMERICA

 

answer

 

My Dearests!

 

Friend of mine got this letter-see below from your Organization.

 

Thank you for answer.

 

I would like to assure you that I will use the best endeavor to deliver this humanistic opinion to the World Community.It will be the point of my life in the medium term.

 

People of the World ought to realize whom they are dealing with.

 

A propos regarding GOD BLESS AMERICA hope all of you are fine andy happy after recent earthquake.

 

and coming Hurrican of Century?

[Walsingham]

What does that even mean?

[obyknven]

Nato mercs in Tripoli

 

Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e-Q4Fptx08...player_embedded

 

http://multimedia.telesurtv.net/25/8/2011/...hia-de-tripoli/

 

Young Libyan in London - Snippets of A Conversation

 

!

[Lexx]

I just can't believe that not a single german news site is reporting about that the whole thing might be faked.

[obyknven]

Tripoli city fight

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/justvideoforyo...u/3/oVPOLDQNZrM

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/justvideoforyo...u/4/CXbHBLRaBoU

 

Tripoli devastation.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puY5lMBhUgE

[Malcador]

Latest PR here is the tragic story of a Canadian IT worker that returned to Libya, and got sniped on Wednesday. Apparently some rebel dying is heart-touching news here, or something.

[Morgoth]

Latest PR here is the tragic story of a Canadian IT worker that returned to Libya, and got sniped on Wednesday. Apparently some rebel dying is heart-touching news here, or something.

If he was a white Canadian then it's no wonder nobody reported about it.

[Malcador]

No, he's not some WASP.

[obyknven]

I just can't believe that not a single german news site is reporting about that the whole thing might be faked.

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...a&aid=26177

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?con...a&aid=26204

[Walsingham]

Can you explain for one second what earthly purpose would be served by faking stories about the fighting? It's not as if Gaddafi's troops are going to believe foreign media over the evidence of their own eyes.

[obyknven]

Can you explain for one second what earthly purpose would be served by faking stories about the fighting? It's not as if Gaddafi's troops are going to believe foreign media over the evidence of their own eyes.

NATO hide their war crimes

Tripoli 25 august

WARNING: GRAPHIC.

http://ir-ingr.livejournal.com/951683.html

http://ir-ingr.livejournal.com/951850.html#cutid1

Edited August 26, 2011 by obyknven

[obyknven]

tweets from LibyanLiberal in Tripoli

 

http://mobile.twitter.com/libyanliberal

 

3 days ago

French troops landed on the coastal highway of Tripoli!!!!!! URGENT!!!!!

More than 1000 foreing special forces deployin to the coastal road under warship artilery cover. I will go to defent my country.

Algerian people are raising Jihad cause of French troops attacking Tripoli.

BEN BELLA the pride of Algeria says that rebels are the modern slaves.

Once in a mans life there is a moment where he should prove that has values. My time is now. For allah for Libya for mouamar. TO THE FRONT.

MY NEXT TWEET WILL BE AFTER VICTORY. IF MARTYRDOM PRAY FOR MY SOUL.

 

2 days ago

I saw hundrends of dead bodies both army and rebels. many civilian women and kids dead too. many houses looted.

....

 

5 hours ago

i need to go back to the fight. you are american so please dont talk about libya and who s libyan. JIHAD

[Hurlshort]

You know, the greater jihad is that is that of one's personal struggle to keep faith.

 

The crazy levels for oby/LoF are higher than normal the last couple days.

[Zoraptor]

Always sucks to be a merc:

Dozens of unidentified bodies lie in an abandoned hospital in Tripoli's Abu Salim neighbourhood, which has been the scene of fierce fighting, AP news agency reports. Some are piled in the hospital yard, where they have been covered with blankets. AP suggests they have darker skin than most Libyans and could be professional soldiers recruited by Muammar Gaddafi from sub-Saharan Africa.

per Torygraph, may be the same incident.

But the bodies of pro-Gaddafi troops, who appeared to have been bound with plastic handcuffs before being shot, have also been discovered in Tripoli.

 

One eyewitness described seeing the bodies of at least 30 loyalist troops riddled with bullets, lying in a pile close to where there had previously been intense fighting.

 

According to reports the some of the dead men were wearing military uniforms, while others were dressed in civilian clothing.

 

Some of the dead did not appear to be native Libyans, prompting suggestions that they could have been African mercenaries, hired by Gaddafi following the uprising in February.

There's a good reason a lot of the refugees fleeing the fighting are african, some of the rebels have been summarily executing all africans as mercs right from the start. It doesn't really get reported much as it interferes with The Narrative.

[Humodour]

If we only see a few dictatorships fall every generation then it won't be long before humanity as a whole may be liberated. And I call that ****ing awesome.

 

Exactly this. Best quote of this thread.

[obyknven]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/61920.html

NATO commanders who authorized the Libya bombing campaign should be ?held accountable? to international law and hauled before the world court for civilian deaths, Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) said Tuesday.

 

?NATO?s top commanders may have acted under color of international law, but they are not exempt from international law,? Kucinich said in a statement released by his office. ?If members of the Qadhafi regime are to be held accountable, NATO?s top commanders must also be held accountable through the International Criminal Court for all civilian deaths resulting from bombing. Otherwise, we will have witnessed the triumph of a new international gangsterism.?

 

Kucinich, who in March suggested President Barack Obama?s authorizing of airstrikes on Libya were ?an impeachable offense? and sponsored a July measure to defund the military effort there, criticized what he called an evolving rationale for the NATO offensive.

 

The seven-term Cleveland congressman released his statement just as forces loyal to Qadhafi appeared to have abandoned their defense of his heavily fortified Tripoli compound. It was not clear where Qadhafi is, though a Russian chess official said he spoke with the dictator and reported he remains in the capital.

 

"The reasons for the U.S./NATO intervention in Libya keep changing," he said. "First, it was about the potential for a massacre in Benghazi. When the massacre did not materialize and once the war against Libya was under way, the reasons for intervention changed."

 

And Kucinich questioned the motivation behind U.S. intervention in Libya.

 

?Was the United States, through participation in the overthrow of the regime, furthering the aims of international oil corporations in pursuit of control over one of the world?s largest oil resources?? he asked. ?Did the United States at the inception of the war against Libya align itself with elements of Al Qaeda, while elsewhere continuing to use the threat of Al Qaeda as a reason for U.S. military intervention, presence and occupation???

Edited August 27, 2011 by obyknven

[Humodour]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/61920.html

NATO commanders who authorized the Libya bombing campaign should be ?held accountable? to international law and hauled before the world court for civilian deaths, Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) said Tuesday.

 

?NATO?s top commanders may have acted under color of international law, but they are not exempt from international law,? Kucinich said in a statement released by his office. ?If members of the Qadhafi regime are to be held accountable, NATO?s top commanders must also be held accountable through the International Criminal Court for all civilian deaths resulting from bombing. Otherwise, we will have witnessed the triumph of a new international gangsterism.?

 

Kucinich, who in March suggested President Barack Obama?s authorizing of airstrikes on Libya were ?an impeachable offense? and sponsored a July measure to defund the military effort there, criticized what he called an evolving rationale for the NATO offensive.

 

The seven-term Cleveland congressman released his statement just as forces loyal to Qadhafi appeared to have abandoned their defense of his heavily fortified Tripoli compound. It was not clear where Qadhafi is, though a Russian chess official said he spoke with the dictator and reported he remains in the capital.

 

"The reasons for the U.S./NATO intervention in Libya keep changing," he said. "First, it was about the potential for a massacre in Benghazi. When the massacre did not materialize and once the war against Libya was under way, the reasons for intervention changed."

 

And Kucinich questioned the motivation behind U.S. intervention in Libya.

 

?Was the United States, through participation in the overthrow of the regime, furthering the aims of international oil corporations in pursuit of control over one of the world?s largest oil resources?? he asked. ?Did the United States at the inception of the war against Libya align itself with elements of Al Qaeda, while elsewhere continuing to use the threat of Al Qaeda as a reason for U.S. military intervention, presence and occupation???

 

HEY GUYS, LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME! I'M A REALLY **** AND UNINTERESTING HOAX ACCOUNT. :)

[Walsingham]

HEY GUYS, LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME! I'M A REALLY **** AND UNINTERESTING HOAX ACCOUNT. :)

 

Exactly this. Best quote of this thread.

 

Seriously, cycloneman, you need a proper hobby.

[Gromnir]

oby/lof is a nutter... but her/his brand o' insanity is actual appropriate in the present context. the one good thing that Q offered the world were stability. Q could make reliable contracts and keep oil flowing. Q could maintain a monopoly on force within his own boarders. #'s laundry list o' what ifs may not all come to fruition, but until late in 2010, we knew that Q could prevent those what ifs. 'course Q's control o' his own country were dissolving months before the first european or American plane dropped ordinance on libyan soil.

 

ok. now what happens? personally, we got no certainty regarding the future o' libya save that for the near future we predict chaos. lots o' bad things can happen before the chaos dissipates. sure, oby is posting every wacky conspiracy theory and bs faux news drop she/he can find, but the truth o' the matter is that chaos will reign for the near future. bad things is gonna happen in libya. weapons will be smuggled out o' libya by bad folks. criminal elements that has been non-existent in libya for decades will sudden become very active... just look at post soviet russia for examples. there will be rapes, murders, thefts and all matter o' evils perpetrated by libyans and against libyans. come up with every terrible scenario you can imagine and we expect that there will be some real atrocities occurring within the days, weeks, and months ahead that will exceed the most nightmarish conjectures of even oby.

 

things is gonna be bad in libya for some time to come. oby may be a little addled, but whatever nonsense she/he posts, worse will actually be happening somewheres in libya. it would be callous and inhuman to sit back and simple accept the horrors that is forthcoming, but am thinking it is equal naive to believe that things is gonna be better any time soon.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Walsingham]

I follow your argument Grom. But the key question is not 'what happens now'. The question is 'what happens later'.

 

The presumption of hope is that once the melee subsides the nation will rise to a higher degree of prosperity and respect for life than would have been possible in a police state run by a nutcase and his nutcase heirs.

 

As for the weapons smuggling point: granted Gaddafi had not been doing so recently, but don't forget he shipped hundreds of rifles and millions of rounds of ammunition out to his pet 'revolutions' worldwide back in the day. Not to mention dropping planes out of the sky. Is it grotesquely naive to believe there is such a thing as justice. Even for the arch sand-scouser?

[Gromnir]

I follow your argument Grom. But the key question is not 'what happens now'. The question is 'what happens later'.

 

The presumption of hope is that once the melee subsides the nation will rise to a higher degree of prosperity and respect for life than would have been possible in a police state run by a nutcase and his nutcase heirs.

 

As for the weapons smuggling point: granted Gaddafi had not been doing so recently, but don't forget he shipped hundreds of rifles and millions of rounds of ammunition out to his pet 'revolutions' worldwide back in the day. Not to mention dropping planes out of the sky. Is it grotesquely naive to believe there is such a thing as justice. Even for the arch sand-scouser?

 

 

you don't have to scroll back in this and the other libya threads to be seeing that we thinks that things is gonna be better for the west with Q gone. he active sponsored terrorist activities in multiple parts o' the world. he used fear to control his own populace... which is no doubt why he had to rely on mercenaries during the recent fighting. etc. a libya without Q will eventually be a better place.

 

regardless, there is gonna be many stories coming outta libya in the near future that is gonna present atrocities and horrors. more than a few o' those stories is gonna be true. eventually things will be better, but is best not to expect anything other than chaos for the near future. chaos in libya ain't necessarily a bad thing for the west. however, keeping the chaos completely limited to libya is a best case scenario that seems mighty unlikely. there is gonna be some... spillage.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Humodour]

the one good thing that Q offered the world were stability.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_Berlin_discotheque_bombing

[Walsingham]

regardless, there is gonna be many stories coming outta libya in the near future that is gonna present atrocities and horrors. more than a few o' those stories is gonna be true. eventually things will be better, but is best not to expect anything other than chaos for the near future. chaos in libya ain't necessarily a bad thing for the west. however, keeping the chaos completely limited to libya is a best case scenario that seems mighty unlikely. there is gonna be some... spillage.

 

I don't know why I'm arguing with you, really. I have been saying for years* that having 'the locals sort it out' is a terrible idea. Civil wars are immensely bloody, and being conducted by unregulated militias essentially guarantees atrocities and abuse of power in the same way that ALL armed men have a tendency to do throughout all human history.

 

It's not that I don't expect the rebels to commit atrocities because they are the 'good guys'. However, rather defensively and peevishly I'd suggest they might commit less atrocities than a state whose raison d'etre was brutal suppression.

 

 

*Literally. God that's scary.

[213374U]

a libya without Q will eventually be a better place.

Interesting theory, but I'd like to see some evidence that this will actually be the case. Unless "eventually" in this context is to be taken to mean "at a completely unspecified point in the future". Which then begs the question why Q's removal at this point was so critical, and how it is going to be the inflection point in Libyan history. What with precedents not being exactly comforting and all.

 

I'm not too convinced that removing Q will benefit us that much, either. Even disregarding the fact that that wasn't the rationale behind the UN mandate for bombing the bejeezus out of them, there's the issue that Q was basically without friends internationally and hard pressed to keep his own house clean and tidy. In spite of Krez's prosaic attempts to prove what an active terrorist Q was by linking to something that happened even before he was born, there's little actual evidence that Q was a threat that demanded such expeditious action. Is this going to benefit the West? Perhaps, but I doubt it'll be as you suggested.

 

 

I have been saying for years* that having 'the locals sort it out' is a terrible idea. Civil wars are immensely bloody, and being conducted by unregulated militias essentially guarantees atrocities and abuse of power in the same way that ALL armed men have a tendency to do throughout all human history.

Oh, nice. I know it looks like I'm actively trying to get under your skin, but I think he couldn't have put it better.

 

If we're going to go back to this tutelage of nations where it appears they can't handle their own affairs without a bloodbath -and only if it's economically profitable, as you admitted previously- can we at least be open about it and drop the propaganda and perversion of language? If it's the right thing to do -and frankly I have no idea if it is- why are all the bull**** and double standards necessary? What are we so ashamed of?

Edited August 27, 2011 by 213374U

[Walsingham]

Could you aid a mind that is tired and hungover by recapitulating precisely what these double standards are? Without your assistance I do not think I can adequately justify anything or anyone.

 

~~~

 

As a slight aside I have been doing a lot of reading yetserday and today and noted something rather interesting. IN both Jamaica and Nigeria, and even in Japan, the introduction of democracy was followed by the springing up of a nexus between the new political class and disaffected youths/organised crime. These gangs being used to suppress political opposition and generally stir things up. In Japan this more or less passed successfully away and merely left us with the Yakuza. In Jamaica and Nigeria of course we can now see them still locked in this revolting pact, and the damage to their societies is self-evident.

 

My question then is will this happen in Libya, and what if anything could be done to stop it?