News Int. Inc. hack phone of missing (dead girl)

[Drowsy Emperor]

It is still in the capitalist's best interests to make sure society is moving forward. Take the roads for example, how many companies are tied to the building and maintaining of those roads? The auto industry is gigantic, do you really think they want the roads to disappear?

 

My point is that a politician can only be trusted to do what is popular, ensuring that they will be re-elected. A capitalist will do what is best for the economy regardless of popularity. Obviously there needs to be a system of checks and balances in place.

 

How is the US moving forward if Nike fires all its US based workers in favor of Cambodian 2 cents an hour labor?

 

All I see are personal interests there, if they happen to work in favor of the society that's great, if they don't - who cares, they go forward with it anyway.

 

You cannot be seriously suggesting the Adam Smith notion of the market being a self-regulating force in light of the recent crisis where the state had to intervene to bail the big business out? In fact that was just further proof that the economical elites undermine the very society they belong to - and that the only safety valve is ultimately the state.

 

And why should the state use tax payer money to bail out a supposedly private business is a huge question in itself.

[Walsingham]

It is still in the capitalist's best interests to make sure society is moving forward. Take the roads for example, how many companies are tied to the building and maintaining of those roads? The auto industry is gigantic, do you really think they want the roads to disappear?

 

That's - if you will forgive my being blunt - bloody silly. If the roads suffer they'll just sell bakkies. Indeed the cars will wear out faster and be more imperative in a land of crap transport.

 

I accept that a capitalist's true interests/maximum profit are served by taking a long term view of what is good for society. But That long view is inherently risky, being affected by many other factors. A short term view raking maximum profit by exploiting weaknesses in the system will prove best. And this is fundamentally what capital does.

 

The example I'd give would be all the British defence manufacturers. We used to have quite a few. They built crap that didn't work and cost too much. Result being that our defence capability went down the tubes, and the country stopped defining itself as having a functional military. We stopped buying British. They all went bust. Except the ones which learned how to bribe people.

[Gromnir]

It is still in the capitalist's best interests to make sure society is moving forward. Take the roads for example, how many companies are tied to the building and maintaining of those roads? The auto industry is gigantic, do you really think they want the roads to disappear?

 

My point is that a politician can only be trusted to do what is popular, ensuring that they will be re-elected. A capitalist will do what is best for the economy regardless of popularity. Obviously there needs to be a system of checks and balances in place.

 

How is the US moving forward if Nike fires all its US based workers in favor of Cambodian 2 cents an hour labor?

 

 

 

well, for one thing, dependence on cheap-goods manufacture and natural resource exports is an economic dead-end... is almost impossible to self bootstrap up an economy to capital production and info/tech from such beginnings. hell, you not think that China is terrified 'bout their future? their current level o' prosperity is dependent 'pon wealthy western nations continued ability to buy their cheap goods. is just one reason why they works so hard to keep down the value o' the yuan relative to dollar, euro and yen.

 

nike fires us workers in favor o' cambodian .02 labor IS a good thing... is the smart and economic thing to do. nobody worth noting is genuine concerned that cheap goods manufacturing is disappearing from the US. what is bad is that US is becoming increasingly dependent on foreign tech.... but that is a whole different issue.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Nepenthe]

How is the US moving forward if Nike fires all its US based workers in favor of Cambodian 2 cents an hour labor?

 

All I see are personal interests there, if they happen to work in favor of the society that's great, if they don't - who cares, they go forward with it anyway.

 

You cannot be seriously suggesting the Adam Smith notion of the market being a self-regulating force in light of the recent crisis where the state had to intervene to bail the big business out? In fact that was just further proof that the economical elites undermine the very society they belong to - and that the only safety valve is ultimately the state.

 

And why should the state use tax payer money to bail out a supposedly private business is a huge question in itself.

<3

[Walsingham]

What DOES that symbol mean, anyway? Looks like someone mooning out a car window.

[WDeranged]

What DOES that symbol mean, anyway? Looks like someone mooning out a car window.

 

[Drowsy Emperor]

That's - if you will forgive my being blunt - bloody silly. If the roads suffer they'll just sell bakkies.

 

Its been a long time since I heard that word, you South African you. Almost makes me miss Botswana.

 

Anyway in these sort of discussions people from the US generally prefer the private sector, while Europeans and anyone who enjoys the welfare state (or what's left of its carcass today) generally supports it first and foremost. There are of course differences in opinion in these camps but by and large this is the prevailing attitude. After all states created Europe as it is now, while the US was basically created by entrepreneurs - or so the myth goes. So no surprises there.

 

The problem in Europe is that states have been going the way of the US ever since Thatcher and Reagan and the neoliberals/neoconservatives (which sort of ideologically melted together) took the ideological reigns of the economy, demolishing both the functional and dysfunctional parts of the welfare state in favor of the "anything goes" capitalism, in which you basically work as many hours a week as your boss decides and your only right is to queue up at the dole if you're not satisfied.

Its not that bad yet, but that's the way its going, and the state is powerless to stop it as the political elites are practically controlled by the economic elites, or melted together. This power shift undermines the basic tenets of democracy as the state is the only expression of the people as a collective. The more it weakens, the less say people have in their society.

Edited August 17, 2011 by Drowsy Emperor

[Nepenthe]

That's - if you will forgive my being blunt - bloody silly. If the roads suffer they'll just sell bakkies.

 

Its been a long time since I heard that word, you South African you. Almost makes me miss Botswana.

 

Anyway in these sort of discussions people from the US generally prefer the private sector, while Europeans and anyone who enjoys the welfare state (or what's left of its carcass today) generally supports it first and foremost. There are of course differences in opinion in these camps but by and large this is the prevailing attitude. After all states created Europe as it is now, while the US was basically created by entrepreneurs - or so the myth goes. So no surprises there.

 

The problem in Europe is that states have been going the way of the US ever since Thatcher and Reagan and the neoliberals/neoconservatives (which sort of ideologically melted together) took the ideological reigns of the economy, demolishing both the functional and dysfunctional parts of the welfare state in favor of the "anything goes" capitalism, in which you basically work as many hours a week as your boss decides and your only right is to queue up at the dole if you're not satisfied.

Its not that bad yet, but that's the way its going, and the state is powerless to stop it as the political elites are practically controlled by the economic elites, or melted together. This power shift undermines the basic tenets of democracy as the state is the only expression of the people as a collective. The more it weakens, the less say people have in their society.

And the political elite is controlled sometimes via direct corruption, sometimes by the "we'll take the sneaker factory and move it to Vietnam" writ large. Our govt has been bending over for years from the fear that Nokia &co will simply pack their head office up and go, and take the taxes they ARE paying with them...

[Walsingham]

What DOES that symbol mean, anyway? Looks like someone mooning out a car window.

 

 

You're threatening me with a colonoscopy?

 

~~

 

BTW, scuttle is that Rebekah Brooks* is still idling about in her company chauffeur driven car. I tell you that woman has dirt on the Murdochs...

 

 

*Who seriously calls themselves 'Rebekah'? Sounds like a page 3 girl.

[Enoch]

<3 is a sideways heart. Generally used in online/sms communications as an expression of love.

 

Clearly Wals is not facebook friends with any 14-year-old girls. (And before you go all pedobear on me, I'm talking about my cousin, who ends nearly every post with either a "<3" or by mysteriouslyyyy repeatinggg the lastttt letterrr of everyyyy wordddd. And occasionally by combining the two in an extra-confusing "<333")

Edited August 17, 2011 by Enoch

[Nepenthe]

<3 is a sideways heart. Generally used in online/sms communications as an expression of love.

 

Clearly Wals is not facebook friends with any 14-year-old girls. (And before you go all pedobear on me, I'm talking about my cousin, who ends nearly every post with either a "<3" or by mysteriouslyyyy repeatinggg the lastttt letterrr of everyyyy wordddd. And occasionally by combining the two in an extra-confusing "<333")

I'm friends with a bunch of female law students ( ) and they use "<3" a lot too!

[Drowsy Emperor]

And the political elite is controlled sometimes via direct corruption, sometimes by the "we'll take the sneaker factory and move it to Vietnam" writ large. Our govt has been bending over for years from the fear that Nokia &co will simply pack their head office up and go, and take the taxes they ARE paying with them...

 

I love to hate them (political elites) but the fact is that the moment they get in office they receive a call to remind them about who their biggest election contributor was and what exactly he expects them to do during their term in office.

Edited August 17, 2011 by Drowsy Emperor

[Nepenthe]

And the political elite is controlled sometimes via direct corruption, sometimes by the "we'll take the sneaker factory and move it to Vietnam" writ large. Our govt has been bending over for years from the fear that Nokia &co will simply pack their head office up and go, and take the taxes they ARE paying with them...

 

I love to hate them (political elites) but the fact is that the moment they get in office they receive a call to remind them about who their biggest election contributor was and what exactly he expects them to do during their term in office.

Depends a bit, we had our own little election funding brouhaha after the last elections, and the parties get significant contributions from state taxes.

[Tale]

This is what always comes to mind. http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/05/11/215...Become-Lobbyist

[Zoraptor]

*Who seriously calls themselves 'Rebekah'? Sounds like a page 3 girl.

That's the Jewish spelling/ transliteration, I think- I've certainly seen {R}Ebekah used as a more, er, literal biblical transliteration of Rebecca.

 

I bet that bracketed R is going to be the registration mark once I post.

 

Right, we'll try curly brackets then...

Edited August 17, 2011 by Zoraptor

[WDeranged]

You're threatening me with a colonoscopy?

 

That's Ma-Ti from Captain Planet, his power was HEART!

[Walsingham]

Thanks for clearing that up, Zoraptor and Enoch.

 

Jewish eh?

 

Where the hell is the Mel Gibson emoticon?

 

Come to that, what's the emoticon for threatening someone with a colonoscopy?

Edited August 18, 2011 by Walsingham

[WDeranged]

News International cat incredibly far from bag