No New Game+?

[Chasted]

After finishing the game (BTW; the ending was awesome.

Couldn't help but think; "Well damn; shall I proceed in tickling that to death now?"

) I found it slightly odd; there was no New Game+ Save; not to mention no "Endgame" save for future DLC either (Or at least it didn't show).

 

It would be rather cool/interesting if you were able to "up" the difficulty by monster scaling and giving them a few more abilities (F.ex,

the monsters the final boss spawns are not 'sucked up' after he goes into the weakened state

)

[toastification]

Nope. It's a touchy subject as to whenever Obsidian's Dungeon Siege format should have it, though. I am leaning towards no. This isn't Diablo or any of its offspring, it has a particular style of gameplay that is best compared, in principle, to a hybrid game like Mass Effect.

 

As such, I think Obsidian should focus on making the core experience as strong as possible with no distractions outside of it such as a well balanced and designed NG+ mode.

[hopfrog16]

Nope. It's a touchy subject as to whenever Obsidian's Dungeon Siege format should have it, though. I am leaning towards no. This isn't Diablo or any of its offspring, it has a particular style of gameplay that is best compared, in principle, to a hybrid game like Mass Effect.

 

As such, I think Obsidian should focus on making the core experience as strong as possible with no distractions outside of it such as a well balanced and designed NG+ mode.

 

This game isn't Diablo, no. But still, it seems odd to me that they didn't include this feature (among others, I feel)... Especially looking at the genre of this game.

 

Just look at other games of the same genre... BG: DA, BG: DA2, CoN, and CoN: RTA (and more) all had this feature.

 

Then again, maybe Obsidian has some DLC planned that will add Newgame+ (maybe with a higher level cap, new skills, new equipment). To be honest, though, with that much content it would be bordering on an expansion rather than just regular DLC. I doubt they have anything like that in the works, but it would be nice I think. =)

[Chasted]

Nope. It's a touchy subject as to whenever Obsidian's Dungeon Siege format should have it, though. I am leaning towards no. This isn't Diablo or any of its offspring, it has a particular style of gameplay that is best compared, in principle, to a hybrid game like Mass Effect.

 

As such, I think Obsidian should focus on making the core experience as strong as possible with no distractions outside of it such as a well balanced and designed NG+ mode.

 

Well, I can understand making it more difficult by increasing monster abilities but it would still be rather cool to just replay the regular game with your original character; esp. if everything was just scaled "up" to your level. Mass Effect had a "New Game+"; sure it didn't add anything new but all monsters damage/hit points scaled with your level (With you as a character only gaining greater flexibility when it came to level progression)

Edited June 19, 2011 by Chasted

[progaor06]

I dont think they need new game plus only way they could add something similar with dlc addon is this,Import completed saved game character as coop ai or friend..Once your other main character level is within 5 levels of completed one,You can choose to use your imported character make your current player the ai or something.

Edited June 19, 2011 by progaor06

[Stavi]

The game is way too linear to not have a save import feature, but

considering the best armor in the game can be bought right before the final boss

it doesn't really matter.

 

Sure wasn't enough content to warrant $60, and definitely not enough lootgrinding for a dungeon crawler. If Obsidian planned to add all this in as DLC with a fee, I would be even more disappointed for them releasing an unfinished game. What are they, Capcom?

[Chasted]

Well, I would agree with putting in something like New Game+ in as DLC which you pay for would be offensive but I would buy DLC that expanded on the story.

Edited June 20, 2011 by Chasted

[MonkeyLungs]

Nope. It's a touchy subject as to whenever Obsidian's Dungeon Siege format should have it, though. I am leaning towards no. This isn't Diablo or any of its offspring, it has a particular style of gameplay that is best compared, in principle, to a hybrid game like Mass Effect.

 

As such, I think Obsidian should focus on making the core experience as strong as possible with no distractions outside of it such as a well balanced and designed NG+ mode.

 

Oddly enough ... Mass Effect supports Newgame+ and has all kinds of incentives for such.

[Roland]

Titan Quest did this perfectly...

[toastification]

Titan Quest was also quite possibly the most faithful Diablo clone out there, while this is not.

 

Oddly enough ... Mass Effect supports Newgame+ and has all kinds of incentives for such.

ME's New Game + is trash. You replay the entire game for an achievement, a fraction of your levels for scaling, and no new items or designed difficulty mode.

[MonkeyLungs]

Nope. It's a touchy subject as to whenever Obsidian's Dungeon Siege format should have it, though. I am leaning towards no. This isn't Diablo or any of its offspring, it has a particular style of gameplay that is best compared, in principle, to a hybrid game like Mass Effect.

 

As such, I think Obsidian should focus on making the core experience as strong as possible with no distractions outside of it such as a well balanced and designed NG+ mode.

 

Notice here where you compare DS3 to a 'hybrid game like Mass Effect'.

 

 

Titan Quest was also quite possibly the most faithful Diablo clone out there, while this is not.

 

Oddly enough ... Mass Effect supports Newgame+ and has all kinds of incentives for such.

ME's New Game + is trash. You replay the entire game for an achievement, a fraction of your levels for scaling, and no new items or designed difficulty mode.

 

I was just pointing out that the very exact game you compared DS3 to actually has a new game + feature. You argued that this very specific type of gameplay doesn't lend itself to newgame+.

 

Do you have a point or are you just bouncing around making contrary statements to anyone that criticises your beloved little DS3?

 

I think Mass Effect could have added some greater incentive to improve Newgame but that doesn't mean that Dungeon Siege 3 shouldn't even attempt it. It also doesn't mean that Action RPG's (the gnere both Mass Effects and Dungeon Siege belong to) shouldn't have newgame+ modes.

 

One further point: ACTION RPG'S BY THEIR VERY NATURE ARE HYBRIDS HENCE THE NAME OF THE GENRE. ACTION+RPG.

Edited June 20, 2011 by MonkeyLungs

[toastification]

I was just pointing out that the very exact game you compared DS3 to actually has a new game + feature. You argued that this very specific type of gameplay doesn't lend itself to newgame+.

 

Do you have a point or are you just bouncing around making contrary statements to anyone that criticises your beloved little DS3?

 

Conclusion - I disagree with ME's implementation of NG+ just as I would disagree with an implementation of it (especially in the shallow format that ME did it) in DS3. Was that so hard a point to get?

 

Furthermore - Dungeon Siege 3 and Mass Effect are generalized to a greater expect than regular action RPGs such as Diablo. Diablo likes specialize almost entirely in character building and typically end up neglecting the depth of combat as well as depth of story. DS3 and ME sacrificed the typical extent of character building focus in favor of implementing story elements and hybridizing the nature of combat itself with something that is normally outside of the ARPG genre - for ME its shooters, for DS3 its games like Darksiders/God of War/etc.

 

In case you are still missing the point and are stuck on "zomg look at this fanboy gotta e-fight with him!" - I am proposing that Obsidian continues on expanding in that direction (a blend of three game styles with focus on story, deeper combat mechanics, and a relatively small amount of character building) of instead of attempting to make this game more like Diablo and its family of games. Obsidian probably cannot compete in this genre (especially with Diablo 3 incoming), and it is folly to expect them to waste resources on such attempts.

[MonkeyLungs]

Conclusion - I disagree with ME's implementation of NG+ just as I would disagree with an implementation of it (especially in the shallow format that ME did it) in DS3. Was that so hard a point to get?

 

You don't like newgame+ in ARPG's like DS3 and ME. Got it.

 

Furthermore - Dungeon Siege 3 and Mass Effect are generalized to a greater expect than regular action RPGs such as Diablo. Diablo likes specialize almost entirely in character building and typically end up neglecting the depth of combat as well as depth of story. DS3 and ME sacrificed the typical extent of character building focus in favor of implementing story elements and hybridizing the nature of combat itself with something that is normally outside of the ARPG genre - for ME its shooters, for DS3 its games like Darksiders/God of War/etc.

 

I 100% disagree that combat is Diablo 2 is somehow less deep than DS3. DS3 plays more like some streets of rage type game than Diablo but that doesn't give the combat more depth. More of a fighting game feel maybe.

 

In case you are still missing the point and are stuck on "zomg look at this fanboy gotta e-fight with him!" - I am proposing that Obsidian continues on expanding in that direction (a blend of three game styles with focus on story, deeper combat mechanics, and a relatively small amount of character building) of instead of attempting to make this game more like Diablo and its family of games. Obsidian probably cannot compete in this genre (especially with Diablo 3 incoming), and it is folly to expect them to waste resources on such attempts.

 

I think they could compete just fine with the right game, mechanics, and feature list. Whether the will to compete is there is up to Obsidian. I don't think they should make streamlined ARPG either though. I think they should just make old school style rpg's with cheaper budgets and deeper more complex gameplay and really in depth stories and actually conquer a segment of games that are highly underrepresented instead of trying to make the new **** streamlined experience for NewFans.

[toastification]

http://www.nowgamer.com/features/853/the-making-of-diablo

 

Diablo's combat has been historically designed to be the simplest form of gameplay possible with a mouse. Nearly all requirements on the player lie with the knowledge of mechanics the player is expected to posses. While certain builds and PvP do ultimately have more of a physical skill and mental agility requirement than DS3, at its regular PvM Diablo's combat is dumber than a brick. Simple addition of the dodge and block actions with changes to the health/resource system make the fundamentals of combat in DS3 more complex than what is currently in Diablo and its family of games. Perhaps Diablo 3 will change, we will have to see.

 

I think they could compete just fine with the right game, mechanics, and feature list.

It's more than just Diablo 3. It's Torchlight 2, Path of Exile, Grim Dawn (Titan Quest guys), Hellgate: London (as much as it is destined to fail again), Sacred 2, and probably countless other upcoming games in the genre. It's also about the capabilities of the company to provide stable multiplayer (Obsidian has no real expirience here) and long term support. Obsidian *might* be able to pull of a miracle and outdo tens of development studios with stronger experience, but its asking them to focus on something that has never been their strength and not taking advantage of their writers.

 

I think they should just make old school style rpg's with cheaper budgets and deeper more complex gameplay and really in depth stories and actually conquer a segment of games that are highly underrepresented instead of trying to make the new **** streamlined experience for NewFans.

Maybe. Don't know whenever they can survive as a studio by making those kinds of games, though. Also, do they even get to pick their own projects? It looks like every game they made a Obsidian has been made on orders by a publisher with a rushed release deadline.

[MonkeyLungs]

I always felt like depth in combat can come from more than just pushing buttons, but it can also come from pushing buttons too. Depth could come from the way different builds play into combat. Depth can also come from having a super robust combo/blocking/weapon system like Ninja Gaiden.

 

A game for me can be completely turn based and require you to only push a couple buttons at your leisure but still have depth ...

[AddziX]

I always felt like depth in combat can come from more than just pushing buttons, but it can also come from pushing buttons too. Depth could come from the way different builds play into combat. Depth can also come from having a super robust combo/blocking/weapon system like Ninja Gaiden.

 

A game for me can be completely turn based and require you to only push a couple buttons at your leisure but still have depth ...

Turn based RPG's are quite deep anyway, Fallout 2 was incredible.

[toastification]

Yes, there is more to depth in combat than complexity of controls or number of basic actions a player can take; which is how I expect for Diablo 3 to make up for the deficiency of the simplistic interface and input - with intelligent monster (behaviors, abilities, group compositions) design, resource management that remains relevant through out the entire game, high enough difficulty so that you can't just spam your lolwin skill to victory. Interesting and impacting buffs/debuffs can play a strong role in the tactics, etc. etc. etc.

 

But Diablo 2 has none of those things for the vast majority of character builds. There was a threshold of defensive attributes to not be instagibbed, a threshold of boosts for your strongest offensive ability to kill fast... and that's it. You plowed forward on basically an autopilot. You kited melee things that killed you faster than you killed them (or killed you on their death throes), you side stepped some projectiles (IIRC only Hell Gloams and a few bosses shot fast enough to make the dodges somewhat difficult and they were negated mostly by not having bad resists anyway). Some situations might become more involved for the less conventional builds that don't have a "nuke everything" button or a massive attack/defense steroids, but gameplay moments that demanded the correct and well timed reaction that wasn't kiting were incredibly rare.

 

Dungeon Siege 3 doesn't have even 1% of the variety or the nuance/complexity in character builds that Diablo 2 had, but I can safely say that in combat, I had to pay far more attention in DS3 than in D2 to survive, even more attention to not get hit, and more importantly, impacting use of some abilities required positioning/timing/planning. In and of itself DS3 didn't end up having a particularly impressive amount depth because some tools in combat were rather spectacularly overpowered (infinite dodge rolls extinguishes the challenge out of yet another hack'n'slash) and enemy behavior wasn't particularly varied, but it still an improvement over anything else I played in the Diablo-like genre.