sorophx Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 when he tries to find a new job and lists LA Noir as his previous project, if his new employers check it, they might think he lied. Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oner Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 True. Giveaway list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgyQFpOJvyNASt8A12ipyV_iwpLXg_yltGG5mffvSwo/edit?usp=sharing What is glass but tortured sand?Never forget! '12.01.13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vault_overseer Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 kids have this rainbows and butterflies vision of game development as this cool place where everyone is happily doing what they love for 8 hours a day and then spend the rest of the day playing awesome vidya games with their super awesome coworkers while getting blow jobs from Brazilian supermodels. AFAIK, most of the time it's a **** job with a **** pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Well, it's hard to argue with the results. LA Noire and RDR were simply amazing worlds to play in. I guess you have to crack a few eggs to make an omelet nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Again, the question comes to mind why anyone would want to work in game development. because in the States the average salary in the industry is 90k/year, which is a lot even by NA standards That seems a somewhat higher number than what is usually thrown around. Certainly some developers are making that much, but for an average? Anyway, its not simply annual salary that's the factor but also how many hours per week do you have to put in to collect that annual salary and how miserable are you during those hours and how many additional hours away from the job are required to get the work done as well. Making 100K USD a year isn't so great if your putting in 100+ hour weeks of numbing labor to do it. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vault_overseer Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Oh yeah, 90K average salary for developer in gaming industry? yeah, right. (also, 90k in cali is not the same as 90k almost anywhere else in us) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 kids have this rainbows and butterflies vision of game development as this cool place where everyone is happily doing what they love for 8 hours a day and then spend the rest of the day playing awesome vidya games with their super awesome coworkers while getting blow jobs from Brazilian supermodels. That's what it was like when I worked at Ensemble. Only it was often 12 hour days and no blow jobs. But we did get some massages and old scotch. It's left me with a skewed view of everything that came after. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexx Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Gamedev stuff is only cool if you aren't one of the many who work at the bottom of the ladder. "only when you no-life you can exist forever, because what does not live cannot die." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorophx Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 That seems a somewhat higher number than what is usually thrown around. Certainly some developers are making that much, but for an average? source Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshape Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Gamedev stuff is only cool if you aren't one of the many who work at the bottom of the ladder. Its never cool, no matter where you are on the ladder. I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.Down and out on the Solomani RimNow the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshape Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Well, it's hard to argue with the results. LA Noire and RDR were simply amazing worlds to play in. I guess you have to crack a few eggs to make an omelet nowadays. The results would be the same regardless, its the fact that R* wanted it quicker. This means that dev's don't get paid, and are expected to work extreme hours. It is always wrong. It ruins relationships, and quailty of life etc... Just because its games, doesn't mean we want to spend every waking moment of our lives doing just that and nothing else. I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.Down and out on the Solomani RimNow the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Well, it's hard to argue with the results. LA Noire and RDR were simply amazing worlds to play in. I guess you have to crack a few eggs to make an omelet nowadays. The results would be the same regardless, its the fact that R* wanted it quicker. This means that dev's don't get paid, and are expected to work extreme hours. It is always wrong. It ruins relationships, and quailty of life etc... Just because its games, doesn't mean we want to spend every waking moment of our lives doing just that and nothing else. Do software developers in general, or game developers in specific, have any sort of union? Just looking in from the outside, it would seem a profession that could use one. Developers seem to have to take a lot of abuse. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Always hear they should unionize developers, but with outsourcing and a lot of supply out there, never seems to come about. Granted it's always idle rattling on /. for the most part. I've yet to work for a truly sweatshop company (well ok thinking I'm in one now though ) Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshape Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Well, it's hard to argue with the results. LA Noire and RDR were simply amazing worlds to play in. I guess you have to crack a few eggs to make an omelet nowadays. The results would be the same regardless, its the fact that R* wanted it quicker. This means that dev's don't get paid, and are expected to work extreme hours. It is always wrong. It ruins relationships, and quailty of life etc... Just because its games, doesn't mean we want to spend every waking moment of our lives doing just that and nothing else. Do software developers in general, or game developers in specific, have any sort of union? Just looking in from the outside, it would seem a profession that could use one. Developers seem to have to take a lot of abuse. No union, the reasons are simple. The work would be outsourced, this happends alot already in art. I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.Down and out on the Solomani RimNow the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshape Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Always hear they should unionize developers, but with outsourcing and a lot of supply out there, never seems to come about. Granted it's always idle rattling on /. for the most part. I've yet to work for a truly sweatshop company (well ok thinking I'm in one now though ) Sweatshop studio's are bad, but they exist, they also have this vibe like, its okay because everyone else is doing it. I was recently out with some friends, and he actually said "Oooo I have Sunday off", in such a way as to not actually even realise that everyone else at the table normal had sunday off, and this wasn't some strange gift from the gods. I've seen guys work 6 months with very few days off, its pretty much a matter of push back, or bend over. I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.Down and out on the Solomani RimNow the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vault_overseer Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 There are a lot of great jobs for developers, however most of those require good candidates with modern skills and good ethics and majority of developers are lazy arrogant a-holes with no interest in writing good, clean, efficient code. We get treated like dirt because most of us are dirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshape Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 There are a lot of great jobs for developers, however most of those require good candidates with modern skills and good ethics and majority of developers are lazy arrogant a-holes with no interest in writing good, clean, efficient code. We get treated like dirt because most of us are dirt. I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.Down and out on the Solomani RimNow the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 a lot of supply out there, ) That's always a problem. And all these kids going through these new game developer degrees at colleges and universitites is just going to make it worse. WHere do they all expect to work, I wonder. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vault_overseer Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 There are a lot of great jobs for developers, however most of those require good candidates with modern skills and good ethics and majority of developers are lazy arrogant a-holes with no interest in writing good, clean, efficient code. We get treated like dirt because most of us are dirt. I'll admit, maybe, just maybe, it's different in game development world. But I find that extremely hard to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Ethics ? Odd, can't see anyone requiring that in the corporate development world. Fair enough about a lot of developers being sucky out there Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vault_overseer Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Ethics ? Odd, can't see anyone requiring that in the corporate development world. Fair enough about a lot of developers being sucky out there That's the thing, in a good environment developers are expected to have strong sense of ethics. Those are the good jobs I was talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Ethics in what sense? Not stealing code from other developers? Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Well, unless you meant work ethics, rather than not being crooked. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Well, unless you meant work ethics, rather than not being crooked. Ethics isn't really something I'd associate with low and mid-level software development positions in any job related sense, so I'm just curious what v_o is referring to. Taking pencils from the office supply room? Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vault_overseer Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) work ethics, obviously Albeit good companies do tend to attract people of good moral character. Hell, i'd vouch for all of our staff developers. Slowtrain, a lot of modern "software craftsman" consulting agencies do tend to promote ethical lifestyles. It's not for me to decide how successful they may or may not be Edited June 21, 2011 by vault_overseer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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